Computer trading block is a joke! - Page 2

GR8Madmax · 03-17-2002, 07:29 AM

[quote]Originally posted by DHS23:


That's their own fault.

And as for the first part that I cut off, with the three players you put in there (I'm taking it they're all still top players, not pretty much dead wood with some bad talent drops), then it's really their own fault for getting a bad scout.<hr></blockquote>

1. I did not offer all 3 players...just one at a time to see the response I got.

2. The scouting system is fairly similar to what happens in real life. I guess that's what I was trying to point out. If the scout doesn't like the players being offered or if they are looking for something else (other than the positions/players being offered), why would the computer team trade a prospect(who's making $0) on the block?

I'm positive they would've traded that prospect for Sammy Sosa IF they could've afforded his contract. The team I was dealing with was Tampa Bay and we all know how financially secure they are.

yclept · 03-17-2002, 07:39 PM

I don't think it is a problem at all actually - I have been able to get some players for less then what I was WILLING to give - I have also seen players that I couldn't get regardless of what I offered. (IE, offer the computer something ridiculous and still not get the player) It happens like this in real life as well - as a Yankees fan, I cringe over the Witasick-for-Jiminez trade - I am positive some GMs out there were saying to themselves "Man, we'd have given you so much more for Jiminez - are you stupid?" It happens all the time.

Tom

GamingVoice.com · 03-18-2002, 07:06 AM

I see his point and it's completely valid.

If a player is on the trading block, then clearly the "We will not trade him message." is an error. Obviously they WILL trade him for a good deal. Since the game typically indicates a different response when the trade offered does not meet the AI's requirements -- this appears to be a bug.

"We will not trade him." conveys that this player is untouchable, but they are clearly not. We can go round and round about this being just another trade response, but it's saying one thing and meaning another.

Ksyrup · 03-18-2002, 07:54 AM

I agree. I've been (mistakenly, I guess) playing under the assumption that when I make an offer, whether it's lopsided in my favor or the computer's, and I get a "we will not trade him" comment, no combination of players from my roster and/or minor league system will land me that prospect. I haven't really tested that assumption up until now, because I don't feel like spending 30 minutes trying to trade for someone the computer repeatedly tells me is not available. If that's not the case, then the use of that phrase should be limited, or if all prospects can be had for some price, it should be removed from the game altogether.

newbie · 03-18-2002, 08:08 AM

ive found out the best way around is that when they are a "prospect" there value is insanely high and the computer AI wont trade the player, but wait til hes in the majors his first/second year and hes struggling. his value drops dramatically, be patient

lschaef · 03-18-2002, 08:23 AM

I'd like the computer GM to look at my roster and sort of make a counter offer. For example if I'm trying to trade my OF Dennis Jones for a couple prospects they might come back and say, "We'd be more interested in Bobby Joyce". Or maybe, "We could use a back-up shortstop"

It would be nice if the trading was more of a conversation instead of a one way street.

GamingVoice.com · 03-18-2002, 05:05 PM

Agreed!!!

Steve Kuffrey · 03-18-2002, 05:10 PM

The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.

Night2000 · 03-18-2002, 05:15 PM

[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1:
The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.<hr></blockquote>

Excellent! Looking forward for the update.

jerrycapo · 03-18-2002, 05:46 PM

I think this may be something that needs to be looked at closer. In my season Montreal had a 2nd year 2b on the block with brilliant hitting, good power, good eye, top speed, and above average defense. I offered a 2b with comparable current ratings but less potential, and three prospects with good hitting, brilliant power, and good to brilliant eye. The prospects I offered were ranked #'s 7, 17, and 24 in the top 100 prospects. Two of the prospects were at the AAA level and would be ready for the majors in 1-2 years. The other prospect was my #1 draft pick (4th overall) from the previous draft. I also added an average pitcher that may have been able to be a 4th or fifth starter but would never be a star. The response I got was, "We will not trade player x." My scout is excellent in hitting, Montreal's scout is very good in hitting. I then turned Montreal to human controlled and my team to computer and looked at the ratings. There was no difference in the ratings. The player had been on the trading block since mid June and I made my offer on July 31st. My question about this is what does the computer use as criteria when deciding what players to put on the trading block. I really does not make sense that montreal would put this second baseman on the block in only his second year. It would have made more sense if he was in his last year before free agency. I do think this is a possible bug that needs to be looked at, instead of just saying this is just like real life. I do understand that teams sometimes put players on the block just to see what they might get but usually three top prospects is a very generous offer.

All the best,
Jerry

P.S. Since I haven't done so already, I would like to congratulate the Markus and the rest of the team for a significantly improved game from OOTP3. I am looking forward to what the game will have to offer in the future.

GR8Madmax · 03-18-2002, 05:50 PM

[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1:
The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.<hr></blockquote>

Steve,
Will the computer make a counter offer or is the option strictly for human controlled teams?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-18-2002, 05:53 PM

[quote]Originally posted by GR8Madmax:


Steve,
Will the computer make a counter offer or is the option strictly for human controlled teams?<hr></blockquote>

Not certain at this point.

snakehips · 03-20-2002, 12:59 AM

Sorry if I'm going off at a slight tangent, but this thread has reminded me of something I'm unclear on. Sometimes when offering a trade for a prospect the computer controlled team will respond "we will not trade so and so" and other times will say "we can not trade so and so". Now i'm sure OOTP doesn't have a no trade clause, so what does the "Can not" refer to?

GR8Madmax · 03-20-2002, 07:36 AM

I think computer should be a lot less stingy when it comes to deadline trading. They should be actively looking to trade older players for young prospects. Right now it seems the computer wants a lot for a player on the block during the deadline.

TigerGDK · 03-20-2002, 07:48 AM

I also wonder if the computer looks at the team to which they are trading (ie not wanting to trade to a same-division team -- especially in tight pennant race)? Or other similar factors?

TommyBoy · 03-20-2002, 08:05 AM

[quote]Originally posted by newbie:
ive found out the best way around is that when they are a "prospect" there value is insanely high and the computer AI wont trade the player, but wait til hes in the majors his first/second year and hes struggling. his value drops dramatically, be patient

<hr></blockquote>

This has been my experience also. In my 80's solo league, I (Braves) traded Mike Witt (super SP prospect) to the Dodgers at the beginning of 82. Witt won the Cy Young that year. (yes, it hurt) I spent that whole year trying to trade back for Witt- no dice. The NEXT year Witt went 5-15. The next year, LA puts him on the block. I still had to give a good SP prospect, but not as good as Witt. So, to make a short story long, I do see the AI lowering the value of a prospect after they have done poorly in the majors.

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: TommyBoy ]

TommyBoy · 03-20-2002, 08:11 AM

[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1:
The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.<hr></blockquote>

Steve, a suggestion to incorporate with the counter offer- "TIWIGT" feature. I.e, "This Is What It's Gonna Take" to get the player(s) you want.

Say I make an offer to an AI controlled team. In addition to asking the AI to give a counter offer, I could have another option to find out what I would have to give (players and or cash) to get the deal I've offered.

Could the 'counter offer' also include this feature?

Dokken · 03-20-2002, 08:41 AM

I dont even bother with the Trading Block. Its a waste of time. Ive put up players like Jeff Bagwell (in the first season I played..so he was like 33) and not have a SINGLE offer for him.

Now I know what you are saying....hes old and its not what teams are looking for right now.

Well thats a load of BS....because in REAL LIFE (since we are throwing this term around so much) SOMEONE would snatch up Jeff Bagwell in a heart beat....or at least TRY to get him. Not ONE offer came in.

After I tried it a few more times with different star players...I gave up on the Block and I just search by Talent now.

Hopefully...it will be fixed one day.

Khaos · 03-20-2002, 08:49 AM

I think it's real easy to forget that the game doesn't know a player from your mother. It has no clue to as a players history. It only looks at his prospect in the future and now. So while you may say, hey no way, that's stupid based on all the baseball I've followed, the PC has no way of doing that.

Dokken · 03-20-2002, 09:06 AM

[quote]I think it's real easy to forget that the game doesn't know a player from your mother. It has no clue to as a players history. It only looks at his prospect in the future and now<hr></blockquote>

Makes sense.

But lets stop this whole "Its real life" stuff...because this obviously isnt real life. So that argument is REALLY weak.

I do however understand that its just a game...(and a damn fine one!)...and things arent going to be perfect. But I hate it when people try and disquise the fact that the Trading Block does have problems with the whole "Its real life" argument.

03-17-2002, 07:29 AM	#21
GR8Madmax Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 94	[quote]Originally posted by DHS23: <strong> That's their own fault. And as for the first part that I cut off, with the three players you put in there (I'm taking it they're all still top players, not pretty much dead wood with some bad talent drops), then it's really their own fault for getting a bad scout.</strong><hr></blockquote> 1. I did not offer all 3 players...just one at a time to see the response I got. 2. The scouting system is fairly similar to what happens in real life. I guess that's what I was trying to point out. If the scout doesn't like the players being offered or if they are looking for something else (other than the positions/players being offered), why would the computer team trade a prospect(who's making $0) on the block? I'm positive they would've traded that prospect for Sammy Sosa IF they could've afforded his contract. The team I was dealing with was Tampa Bay and we all know how financially secure they are.

03-18-2002, 05:10 PM	#28
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-18-2002, 05:15 PM	#29
Night2000 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Monroe, NJ Posts: 716	[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1: <strong>The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.</strong><hr></blockquote> Excellent! Looking forward for the update. __________________ http://night2000.blogspot.com/ This post has the Al Bundy and Homer Simpson stamp of approval!

03-18-2002, 05:46 PM	#30
jerrycapo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 411	I think this may be something that needs to be looked at closer. In my season Montreal had a 2nd year 2b on the block with brilliant hitting, good power, good eye, top speed, and above average defense. I offered a 2b with comparable current ratings but less potential, and three prospects with good hitting, brilliant power, and good to brilliant eye. The prospects I offered were ranked #'s 7, 17, and 24 in the top 100 prospects. Two of the prospects were at the AAA level and would be ready for the majors in 1-2 years. The other prospect was my #1 draft pick (4th overall) from the previous draft. I also added an average pitcher that may have been able to be a 4th or fifth starter but would never be a star. The response I got was, "We will not trade player x." My scout is excellent in hitting, Montreal's scout is very good in hitting. I then turned Montreal to human controlled and my team to computer and looked at the ratings. There was no difference in the ratings. The player had been on the trading block since mid June and I made my offer on July 31st. My question about this is what does the computer use as criteria when deciding what players to put on the trading block. I really does not make sense that montreal would put this second baseman on the block in only his second year. It would have made more sense if he was in his last year before free agency. I do think this is a possible bug that needs to be looked at, instead of just saying this is just like real life. I do understand that teams sometimes put players on the block just to see what they might get but usually three top prospects is a very generous offer. All the best, Jerry P.S. Since I haven't done so already, I would like to congratulate the Markus and the rest of the team for a significantly improved game from OOTP3. I am looking forward to what the game will have to offer in the future. __________________ All the best, Jerry

03-18-2002, 05:50 PM	#31
GR8Madmax Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 94	[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1: <strong>The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.</strong><hr></blockquote> Steve, Will the computer make a counter offer or is the option strictly for human controlled teams?

03-17-2002, 07:39 PM	#22
yclept Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 42	I don't think it is a problem at all actually - I have been able to get some players for less then what I was WILLING to give - I have also seen players that I couldn't get regardless of what I offered. (IE, offer the computer something ridiculous and still not get the player) It happens like this in real life as well - as a Yankees fan, I cringe over the Witasick-for-Jiminez trade - I am positive some GMs out there were saying to themselves "Man, we'd have given you so much more for Jiminez - are you stupid?" It happens all the time. Tom

03-18-2002, 07:06 AM	#23
GamingVoice.com Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 76	I see his point and it's completely valid. If a player is on the trading block, then clearly the "We will not trade him message." is an error. Obviously they WILL trade him for a good deal. Since the game typically indicates a different response when the trade offered does not meet the AI's requirements -- this appears to be a bug. "We will not trade him." conveys that this player is untouchable, but they are clearly not. We can go round and round about this being just another trade response, but it's saying one thing and meaning another.

03-18-2002, 07:54 AM	#24
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	I agree. I've been (mistakenly, I guess) playing under the assumption that when I make an offer, whether it's lopsided in my favor or the computer's, and I get a "we will not trade him" comment, no combination of players from my roster and/or minor league system will land me that prospect. I haven't really tested that assumption up until now, because I don't feel like spending 30 minutes trying to trade for someone the computer repeatedly tells me is not available. If that's not the case, then the use of that phrase should be limited, or if all prospects can be had for some price, it should be removed from the game altogether.

03-18-2002, 08:08 AM	#25
newbie Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: states Posts: 20	ive found out the best way around is that when they are a "prospect" there value is insanely high and the computer AI wont trade the player, but wait til hes in the majors his first/second year and hes struggling. his value drops dramatically, be patient

03-18-2002, 08:23 AM	#26
lschaef Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 242	I'd like the computer GM to look at my roster and sort of make a counter offer. For example if I'm trying to trade my OF Dennis Jones for a couple prospects they might come back and say, "We'd be more interested in Bobby Joyce". Or maybe, "We could use a back-up shortstop" It would be nice if the trading was more of a conversation instead of a one way street.

03-18-2002, 05:05 PM	#27
GamingVoice.com Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 76	Agreed!!!

03-18-2002, 05:53 PM	#32
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	[quote]Originally posted by GR8Madmax: <strong> Steve, Will the computer make a counter offer or is the option strictly for human controlled teams?</strong><hr></blockquote> Not certain at this point. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-20-2002, 12:59 AM	#33
snakehips Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 8	Sorry if I'm going off at a slight tangent, but this thread has reminded me of something I'm unclear on. Sometimes when offering a trade for a prospect the computer controlled team will respond "we will not trade so and so" and other times will say "we can not trade so and so". Now i'm sure OOTP doesn't have a no trade clause, so what does the "Can not" refer to?

03-20-2002, 07:36 AM	#34
GR8Madmax Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 94	I think computer should be a lot less stingy when it comes to deadline trading. They should be actively looking to trade older players for young prospects. Right now it seems the computer wants a lot for a player on the block during the deadline.

03-20-2002, 07:48 AM	#35
TigerGDK Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OK CIty Posts: 193	I also wonder if the computer looks at the team to which they are trading (ie not wanting to trade to a same-division team -- especially in tight pennant race)? Or other similar factors?

03-20-2002, 08:05 AM	#36
TommyBoy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Purvis, Mississippi Posts: 137	[quote]Originally posted by newbie: <strong>ive found out the best way around is that when they are a "prospect" there value is insanely high and the computer AI wont trade the player, but wait til hes in the majors his first/second year and hes struggling. his value drops dramatically, be patient </strong><hr></blockquote> This has been my experience also. In my 80's solo league, I (Braves) traded Mike Witt (super SP prospect) to the Dodgers at the beginning of 82. Witt won the Cy Young that year. (yes, it hurt) I spent that whole year trying to trade back for Witt- no dice. The NEXT year Witt went 5-15. The next year, LA puts him on the block. I still had to give a good SP prospect, but not as good as Witt. So, to make a short story long, I do see the AI lowering the value of a prospect after they have done poorly in the majors. [ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: TommyBoy ]</p>

03-20-2002, 08:11 AM	#37
TommyBoy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Purvis, Mississippi Posts: 137	[quote]Originally posted by OOTP1: <strong>The "counter offer" is something we are adding in the update.</strong><hr></blockquote> Steve, a suggestion to incorporate with the counter offer- "TIWIGT" feature. I.e, "This Is What It's Gonna Take" to get the player(s) you want. Say I make an offer to an AI controlled team. In addition to asking the AI to give a counter offer, I could have another option to find out what I would have to give (players and or cash) to get the deal I've offered. Could the 'counter offer' also include this feature?

03-20-2002, 08:41 AM	#38
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	I dont even bother with the Trading Block. Its a waste of time. Ive put up players like Jeff Bagwell (in the first season I played..so he was like 33) and not have a SINGLE offer for him. Now I know what you are saying....hes old and its not what teams are looking for right now. Well thats a load of BS....because in REAL LIFE (since we are throwing this term around so much) SOMEONE would snatch up Jeff Bagwell in a heart beat....or at least TRY to get him. Not ONE offer came in. After I tried it a few more times with different star players...I gave up on the Block and I just search by Talent now. Hopefully...it will be fixed one day.

03-20-2002, 08:49 AM	#39
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	I think it's real easy to forget that the game doesn't know a player from your mother. It has no clue to as a players history. It only looks at his prospect in the future and now. So while you may say, hey no way, that's stupid based on all the baseball I've followed, the PC has no way of doing that. __________________ squish

03-20-2002, 09:06 AM	#40
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	[quote]I think it's real easy to forget that the game doesn't know a player from your mother. It has no clue to as a players history. It only looks at his prospect in the future and now<hr></blockquote> Makes sense. But lets stop this whole "Its real life" stuff...because this obviously isnt real life. So that argument is REALLY weak. I do however understand that its just a game...(and a damn fine one!)...and things arent going to be perfect. But I hate it when people try and disquise the fact that the Trading Block does have problems with the whole "Its real life" argument.