Clemens files for record arbitration numbers - Page 2

Meth_Lab_for_Rudy · 01-18-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

The Clemens number looks strange only because no player as good as he is ever really accepted arbitration. The other high profile cases were mostly not FA eligible players.

Greg Maddux

canadiancreed · 01-18-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Is that another hint why Clemens might be asking for such a huge amount of money?

The Astros can't trade Clemens, and they can't even threat not to sign him. Clemens has been playing the retirement card all along, and he got pretty much nothing to lose here.

What kind of option does the Astros have? It's pretty late in the free agent period, with few useful players left to sign. The Astros could be considered a "loser" so far in the free agent market, and the outlook for next season is not good. Without Clemens, the attendence and the team record would probably take a huge hit.

Clemens is asking for not only the market price, but also a huge part of the extra value the Astros would get by signing him.

Nothing liek rewarding the team like putting a gun to their head of sorts (yes I know arbitration may go against him, but i'm pessimistic.)

didnt he retire and then by doing so become a free agent? what a nice loophole if that's true

kingcharlesxii · 01-18-2005, 05:59 PM

Maddux, when he filed, was nowhere near as dominant a pitcher as Clemens still is. This is coming from a huge Maddux fan.

Skipaway · 01-18-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meth_Lab_for_Rudy

Greg Maddux

Great example. And he asked for 16 mil, while settled with 14.5 mil in the end? Did I get the numbers right?

While Maddux was coming off a very good year, maybe even better than Clemens 2004, but it was no Cy Young, and the win-loss records were also not as good.

Add the market inflation we are observing this year, 22 million isn't that out of place in the sense of arbitration.

Or maybe Clemens is just sending a messege to the team about how lowball that 13.5 mil deal was, while playing with the number 22, which also happens to be his jersey number.

With the team losing star players, there aren't much incentives for Clemens to come back anyway? So why not ask for more money?

canadiancreed · 01-18-2005, 06:32 PM

I must be the only perosn that thinks that 22 million is too much for one player

a good rotation maybe, one player, hell no

mlyons · 01-18-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Nothing liek rewarding the team like putting a gun to their head of sorts (yes I know arbitration may go against him, but i'm pessimistic.)

didnt he retire and then by doing so become a free agent? what a nice loophole if that's true

He became a free agent the same way everyone else does: his contract expired. His contract with the Yankees was up in 2003 when he "retired" for the first time, and Houston signed him to a one-year deal, which is why he's a free agent again.

sixto · 01-18-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweeney29

Why is Fite a Pirate now?

That's not a pirate. A Pirate looks like this:

nate7891 · 01-18-2005, 07:07 PM

looks like Clemens will retire sooner than later

Astros02 · 01-18-2005, 07:12 PM

I think he'll either retire or sign a one-year contract worth something in the neighborhood of 15-17 million.

Karros270 · 01-18-2005, 07:25 PM

$22M for a one year deal for a Cy Young calliber pitcher doesn't seem all that out of whack to me because the risk is much smaller than signing a long term deal. I don't know if arbitration takes that into account or not but chances are Clemens wouldn't get $22M for a multi-year deal while he may have a shot at something close for a 1 yr deal elsewhere.

sebastian0622 · 01-18-2005, 07:37 PM

This is a topic on ESPN.com, one of the polls that takes your answers and tells you how others voted when you're done. Most people say Clemens is being greedy. I think that shows the ignorance of baseball fans and also shows how quick "we" are to jump on athletes who try to get some cash. People tend to forget that the owners aren't exactly scraping by on Ramen.

Also, did people forget how little Clemens played for last year?

nate7891 · 01-18-2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

This is a topic on ESPN.com, one of the polls that takes your answers and tells you how others voted when you're done. Most people say Clemens is being greedy. I think that shows the ignorance of baseball fans and also shows how quick "we" are to jump on athletes who try to get some cash. People tend to forget that the owners aren't exactly scraping by on Ramen.

Also, did people forget how little Clemens played for last year?

He played for around 4.5 million. Thats still a good sum of money in my opinion.Plus he had tons of incentives.

Hammer · 01-18-2005, 08:08 PM

I'm sure Clemens knows that he isn't going to get 22 million to pitch for Houston, I don't know why he picked 22 million, maybe its cause its his 22 season or his number 22. But I'm sure he knows that is request won't even make it to the arbitration table.

reds1 · 01-18-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

Also, did people forget how little Clemens played for last year?

Could you pay my salary, please? It's, er, only 3 mill/year.

cinredsfan2000 · 01-18-2005, 08:22 PM

Well id personally take what the 'Stros are offering in arbitration it'd be a healthy jump in tax bracket's for me.

Jonzard · 01-18-2005, 08:30 PM

I am sure its just a case of demanding more than you should so they will negotiate a middle ground around 16-18 million.

SoxWin · 01-18-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinredsfan2000

Well id personally take what the 'Stros are offering in arbitration it'd be a healthy jump in tax bracket's for me.

And so would I, but lets be realistic, neither one of us is going to put one person in the seats and we're sure as **** not going to get even 1 hitter out.

I think he's asking for way too much, but to compare his salary to yours or mine is just wrongheaded.

TotalEnd98 · 01-18-2005, 09:03 PM

I'd bet Clemens either plans to retire or to agree to a deal outside of arbitration, and just submitted this number for sh*ts and giggles, to get people talking about him. Obviously, it worked.

TotalEnd98 · 01-18-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxWin

we're sure as **** not going to get even 1 hitter out.

Make that "two hitters." Sadly, I think even I could get Tony Womack out.

reds1 · 01-18-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxWin

And so would I, but lets be realistic, neither one of us is going to put one person in the seats and we're sure as **** not going to get even 1 hitter out.

I think he's asking for way too much, but to compare his salary to yours or mine is just wrongheaded.

Why is it wrongheaded? Just because he can strike out batters, suddenly he becomes untouchable? I hear what you're saying, but the value system in western society is out of whack. Owners/players reap too much money and others such as teachers are not paid enough, etc., etc.

When you consider that teachers are being pressured to coach kids (including future Rockets/A-Rods) on their own time without compensation, something not right.

And oh, I'm willing to go down to 2.25mil/year!

01-18-2005, 05:59 PM	#23
kingcharlesxii Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,731	Maddux, when he filed, was nowhere near as dominant a pitcher as Clemens still is. This is coming from a huge Maddux fan. __________________ Formerly in the OTBA - Stockholm Royal Squirrels of Sweden OOTP Grand League Champion 2015

01-18-2005, 06:32 PM	#25
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	I must be the only perosn that thinks that 22 million is too much for one player a good rotation maybe, one player, hell no __________________ PT21 PT22

01-18-2005, 07:07 PM	#28
nate7891 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 553	looks like Clemens will retire sooner than later __________________ Keeping idiots in suspense. "If they blew up Wrigley tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me at all. That ivy is nasty, the infield grass is waist high, and they definitely have the most vulgar fans." -- Houston Astros outfielder Lance Berkman. Easiest job in Sports: Third Base Coach Job Requirements: Depth perception, and ability to do “the windmill”.

01-18-2005, 07:25 PM	#30
Karros270 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,392	$22M for a one year deal for a Cy Young calliber pitcher doesn't seem all that out of whack to me because the risk is much smaller than signing a long term deal. I don't know if arbitration takes that into account or not but chances are Clemens wouldn't get $22M for a multi-year deal while he may have a shot at something close for a 1 yr deal elsewhere. __________________ now everybody's praying...don't prey on me

01-18-2005, 08:30 PM	#36
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	I am sure its just a case of demanding more than you should so they will negotiate a middle ground around 16-18 million. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

01-18-2005, 07:12 PM	#29
Astros02 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 506	I think he'll either retire or sign a one-year contract worth something in the neighborhood of 15-17 million.

01-18-2005, 07:37 PM	#31
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	This is a topic on ESPN.com, one of the polls that takes your answers and tells you how others voted when you're done. Most people say Clemens is being greedy. I think that shows the ignorance of baseball fans and also shows how quick "we" are to jump on athletes who try to get some cash. People tend to forget that the owners aren't exactly scraping by on Ramen. Also, did people forget how little Clemens played for last year?

01-18-2005, 08:08 PM	#33
Hammer Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Horicon, Wi Posts: 330	I'm sure Clemens knows that he isn't going to get 22 million to pitch for Houston, I don't know why he picked 22 million, maybe its cause its his 22 season or his number 22. But I'm sure he knows that is request won't even make it to the arbitration table.

01-18-2005, 09:03 PM	#38
TotalEnd98 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,687	I'd bet Clemens either plans to retire or to agree to a deal outside of arbitration, and just submitted this number for shts and giggles, to get people talking about him. Obviously, it worked. __________________ OTBL - Scandinavia Cartoon Heroes* This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper.