Just read the OOTP article in the latest issue...

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by statfreak

If this is true, please don't make us an after thought. Since we are the games fans/customers right now, it would be nice if we were at least given the illusion we mattered.

Personally (and I don't presume to speak for anyone else), I would like any news (or interviews) to be released here either at the same time or before they are released elsewhere. Also, please don't insult us by saying we can have all the news if we'd only subscribe to the magazine.

Perhaps you should make the magazine subscription a part of the game's cost/release for the first year. Then those of us who would only read it for the OOTP news/updates could decide for ourselves if it was worth subscribing to.

The blame isn't all with SI though. Markus has demonstrated an almost disinterest towards OOTP6 and it's customers the past year (when compared to his support of previous versions). I think that has soured several people and we get further frustrated when something as small as this article being published without any real news being posted here occurs.

Obviously you need to run your business as you see fit, but you must realize the current MO is alienating current customers. I suppose it doesn't matter much because so what if a 10, 20, 50, or 100 fans abandon the game. You'll see the customer base increase much, much more than that. Afterall, it's all about selling the game to the most people possible.

When buying a game from Sports Interactive, I like to think your buying into the whole package. From the game, through to the support and aftersales care with patches etc.

We create a magazine, that does have exclusive content. Due to copyright issues we cannot use the text on the website however we do make a point of ensuring that exclusive screenshots appear on the website. This will happen with OOTP shots although there is an unusual lag in this instance whilst we organise our web presence.

You seem to be one angry customer already implying that we'd insult you by making you buy the magazine, we never do that with anyhting. Your hard earned money is yours to do as you wish, we have a policy of producing fully functional time limited demos prior to a games release so you can see for yourself what you are spending your cash on. It's down to all of you to use these demos wisely but remembering that buying an SI game doesnt just end at the checkout.

[jnshmoo]

Marc, a lot of statfreak's unhappiness has to do with some problems that we faced this year. There were all the complaints about legacy bugs that haven't gotten fixed from version to version and the whole H2H blowup and things like that. I'm sure he'll elaborate more as he replies.

As I posted in the other thread, one of the problems I'm seeing is that yourself and Mark Vaughan are both willing to come over here and interact with our community, and that is great, but others in SI are not. The way gavnoble handled the whole interview thing on your forum was unprofessional by our standards here. First off, he posted his request for information from the "Fans of OOTP" on a board where he was not going to get that sort of input. He should have registered here and asked for input here. His do not reply to this because I won't reply statement was also unprofessional. We are a community, not a secret society where everything is done in whispers and encrypted emails.

If you guys really want to win our community over, you need to get anyone who might be involved in the OOTP project to monitor and post here, as well as over at your SI board. This is where the heart and soul of the OOTP community is, and this is where you'll get the pulse of those of us who love the game. Remember that with FM and even EHM to some extent, you had games that would cater to a much wider European market. With OOTP your fanbase is going to always be vastly North American and some of your traditional marketing schemes might not go over as well here as they do there.

Just be mindful that there are a lot of toes over here that are sensitive to being stepped on. Just like you guys have your huge network of researchers working to make FM the best game of its kind, think of us here as the "researchers" for OOTP.

We have guys who work hard on making the Lahman database import into the game better. We have a resident scheduling expert. We've got a group of dedicated utility writers (just like FM does) who enhance our enjoyment greatly. We've got talented graphic artists who create wonderful logos to use in the game and facepacks. We've got ballpark designers and guys who crunch the numbers to get the stats to turn out like we want. We all work together to help make OOTP the ultimate game that we all love and many fear that the move to SI will be the end of all of that. We've always played a big role in the development of the game and Markus has added a lot of features that the members of this community have lobbied hard for and it makes us proud when that happens. That is the sort of thing that everyone fears, and that is what you guys are up against.

[jbmagic]

Marc that is one thing i like about is what youi mention.

fully functional time limited demo of ootp..

that awesome news because i hope you guys will let people post any problems with the demo, like bugs, crashes, etc..

and then really try to fix them all and let us know which one could not be found, so people can post back and explain how to get the bug, crash, etc..

if all of this can be done with the fully functional time limited demos before ootp 7 final release is out...then i think ootp 7 can really be a solid product..

in the past it seems like we had to wait for the final release of ootp to come out, then people will report what bugs they found...but if we can try the product out before the final release , i think the public can hlep the beta tester find more bgs, etc...

thanks

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Marc that is one thing i like about is what youi mention.

fully functional time limited demo of ootp..

that awesome news because i hope you guys will let people post any problems with the demo, like bugs, crashes, etc..

and then really try to fix them all and let us know which one could not be found, so people can post back and explain how to get the bug, crash, etc..

if all of this can be done with the fully functional time limited demos before ootp 7 final release is out...then i think ootp 7 can really be a solid product..

in the past it seems like we had to wait for the final release of ootp to come out, then people will report what bugs they found...but if we can try the product out before the final release , i think the public can hlep the beta tester find more bgs, etc...

thanks

I'm shooting in the dark here, but I'll go and speak to Markus about this topic. It's just something we've done with all our previous titles, especially Football Manager which saw a public beta demo and then a gold master demo. Not only is it good for us, it's of course great for the community to feel part of the development process.

[statfreak]

very well said jnshmoo. Thanks for capturing my feelings and relaying them more eloquently than I ever could.

Marc D, I'm not an angry customer. I am simply calling it as I see it. My opinion is that this board, it's regulars, and the customers of OOTP in general are being reduced to "second-class citizens" so that the game can be marketed to an entirely new and different market. I am merely trying to voice my disappointment with that. As I stated above, it would be nice if we were at least given the illusion that we mattered. The vast majority of core customers for OOTP7 are right here, not in Europe and definitely not reading FM the magazine (I apologize if that is not it's correct name). Is that fact just not being recognized?!?

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jnshmoo

Marc, a lot of statfreak's unhappiness has to do with some problems that we faced this year. There were all the complaints about legacy bugs that haven't gotten fixed from version to version and the whole H2H blowup and things like that. I'm sure he'll elaborate more as he replies.

As I posted in the other thread, one of the problems I'm seeing is that yourself and Mark Vaughan are both willing to come over here and interact with our community, and that is great, but others in SI are not. The way gavnoble handled the whole interview thing on your forum was unprofessional by our standards here. First off, he posted his request for information from the "Fans of OOTP" on a board where he was not going to get that sort of input. He should have registered here and asked for input here. His do not reply to this because I won't reply statement was also unprofessional. We are a community, not a secret society where everything is done in whispers and encrypted emails.

If you guys really want to win our community over, you need to get anyone who might be involved in the OOTP project to monitor and post here, as well as over at your SI board. This is where the heart and soul of the OOTP community is, and this is where you'll get the pulse of those of us who love the game. Remember that with FM and even EHM to some extent, you had games that would cater to a much wider European market. With OOTP your fanbase is going to always be vastly North American and some of your traditional marketing schemes might not go over as well here as they do there.

Just be mindful that there are a lot of toes over here that are sensitive to being stepped on. Just like you guys have your huge network of researchers working to make FM the best game of its kind, think of us here as the "researchers" for OOTP.

We have guys who work hard on making the Lahman database import into the game better. We have a resident scheduling expert. We've got a group of dedicated utility writers (just like FM does) who enhance our enjoyment greatly. We've got talented graphic artists who create wonderful logos to use in the game and facepacks. We've got ballpark designers and guys who crunch the numbers to get the stats to turn out like we want. We all work together to help make OOTP the ultimate game that we all love and many fear that the move to SI will be the end of all of that. We've always played a big role in the development of the game and Markus has added a lot of features that the members of this community have lobbied hard for and it makes us proud when that happens. That is the sort of thing that everyone fears, and that is what you guys are up against.

It's excellent to see and hear what a great community already exists for the game, and I certainly do not for one minute wish to to lose any of you and I am sure that Markus will be calling on you all during the run up to the games release. Again, to draw parallels, Football Manager 2005 has a research network of around 2500 people around the world collecting statistics. Our community forums have in excess of 350,000 unique users per month. It's this kind of level of fan interaction we want to mirror across all our titles.

I have to admit, I am in the dark on the GavNoble issue, Gav no longer writes for our website but please email me privately to let me know the exact details of this incident.

As for others at SI not posting here, simple fact is that we have the OOTP team in place and you all know and love them, I'm involved now and Marc will do his bit. The rest of the guys will lend a hand to Markus as required on a coding and technical level but we work in teams on the various games so you guys are not losing out - it's all hands to the pump.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I'm shooting in the dark here, but I'll go and speak to Markus about this topic. It's just something we've done with all our previous titles, especially Football Manager which saw a public beta demo and then a gold master demo. Not only is it good for us, it's of course great for the community to feel part of the development process.

awesome news Marc

i really hope it can be done the same for OOTP 7

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by statfreak

very well said jnshmoo. Thanks for capturing my feelings and relaying them more eloquently than I ever could.

Marc D, I'm not an angry customer. I am simply calling it as I see it. My opinion is that this board, it's regulars, and the customers of OOTP in general are being reduced to "second-class citizens" so that the game can be marketed to an entirely new and different market. I am merely trying to voice my disappointment with that. As I stated above, it would be nice if we were at least given the illusion that we mattered. The vast majority of core customers for OOTP7 are right here, not in Europe and definitely not reading FM the magazine (I apologize if that is not it's correct name). Is that fact just not being recognized?!?

If we considered you second rate, we'd have wanted this forum closed down, everyone shipped to SIgames and be done with it. We haven't, we don't want to and for the considerable future we wont! You matter, you matter a lot.

Markus has started work on a feature list, which includes new features and improvements on previous OOTP versions. Do you think that if we wanted to give the illusion this was a totally new game we'd do that. Of course not, since you are all so important to the success of the game, you need to know what the new features are over and above what you have purchased in the past

The magazine issue is probably never going to suit, we have requirements for the printed press and having our own magazine suits us. AS I tried to explain, we do our best to get exclusive shots and the like to the site.

[statfreak]

Marc, bigger isn't always better.

I'm glad for Markus and know his product will sell several thousand more copies.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by statfreak

Marc, bigger isn't always better.

Well, thats what I tell all the girls!

[jnshmoo]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

It's excellent to see and hear what a great community already exists for the game, and I certainly do not for one minute wish to to lose any of you and I am sure that Markus will be calling on you all during the run up to the games release. Again, to draw parallels, Football Manager 2005 has a research network of around 2500 people around the world collecting statistics. Our community forums have in excess of 350,000 unique users per month. It's this kind of level of fan interaction we want to mirror across all our titles.

I have to admit, I am in the dark on the GavNoble issue, Gav no longer writes for our website but please email me privately to let me know the exact details of this incident.

As for others at SI not posting here, simple fact is that we have the OOTP team in place and you all know and love them, I'm involved now and Marc will do his bit. The rest of the guys will lend a hand to Markus as required on a coding and technical level but we work in teams on the various games so you guys are not losing out - it's all hands to the pump.

email sent.

I do understand about not many others really being involved, but I just wanted to mention it to make sure that in the future, as other people may join the team, that they should make sure to keep this place in mind. The more contact you have within this community, the easier it will be to keep yourselves and the community informed and content.

I, for one, am looking forward to a nice long future with OOTP.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Well, thats what I tell all the girls!

Yeah but they always say they walk away unhappy/unsatisfied...........DUH!

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

If we considered you second rate, we'd have wanted this forum closed down, everyone shipped to SIgames and be done with it. We haven't, we don't want to and for the considerable future we wont! You matter, you matter a lot.My understanding is that this forum will be closed down and everyone will be forced to go to SIgames. In my opinion this would have occurred already if not for the outcry we made when the news that Markus had joined SI was first announced.

Markus has started work on a feature list, which includes new features and improvements on previous OOTP versions. Do you think that if we wanted to give the illusion this was a totally new game we'd do that. Of course not, since you are all so important to the success of the game, you need to know what the new features are over and above what you have purchased in the past.not sure how this paragraph addresses anything I posted, but I agree 100% with it's sentiment

The magazine issue is probably never going to suit, we have requirements for the printed press and having our own magazine suits us. AS I tried to explain, we do our best to get exclusive shots and the like to the site.I understand where you are coming from. I don't recall how much advance warning we received about the article. I seem to only recall other board members posting about it. If there wasn't one, then perhaps an official post about it from Markus or yourself would have been in order?!?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear, but I do think it's important I express my opinion of the situation. Hopefully it will help with future communications and press releases.

[Maximus]

Marc, I have to ask one thing.

Do you guys ever plan on making an American football sim (pro football-NFLstyle)?

It would be very neat to see. Yeah baby!

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Yeah but they always say they walk away unhappy/unsatisfied...........DUH!

Who have you been speaking too ?

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear, but I do think it's important I express my opinion of the situation. Hopefully it will help with future communications and press releases.

it's fine, I need to know where people are coming from. I just hope you give us a chance!

The second paragraph in my response was aimed at your comment "My opinion is that this board, it's regulars, and the customers of OOTP in general are being reduced to "second-class citizens" so that the game can be marketed to an entirely new and different market"

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Marc, I have to ask one thing.

Do you guys ever plan on making an American football sim (pro football-NFLstyle)?

It would be very neat to see. Yeah baby!

Short answer would be yes
Long answer is that we are going to consolidate the new titles we have brought in (NHL EHM and OOTP) before moving forward with other new games.

[jbmagic]

for football sims

Jim is the best.. he done an excellent job with Front office football...

hint hint if you guys at SI go in that direction

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

for football sims

Jim is the best.. he done an excellent job with Front office football...

hint hint if you guys at SI go in that direction

yep, we know all about Jim. Marc Vaughan is our scout, Miles (our CEO) is the agent

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Who have you been speaking too ?

You know, nearly ALL of my family lives in Europe, Earls Barton- North Hampton, England & Bosnia (Serbian). So I do have cousins that talk.


Well, Im gald to hear that you are even considering an American pro football sim. I can not tell you how big of a fanbsase you would generate for SI. A 2D pro football sim with the customability and depth in stat tracking like OOTP would sell in the millions.