Truth about the future of OOTP - Page 2

Bohunk · 09-18-2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I had to respond to this... so, I assume folks are not allowed to make mistakes or misjudgements. Markus is a bad guy because his hopes and dreams are greater than what he can accomplish? He's failed, thus there should be retribution.

I hope you don't raise your kids this way.

I think all he wants is some form of communication. Like you stated previously he doesn't come around here much anymore, but I don't think its because he feels he's been treated badly. Wouldn't be much of a business man if that were true.

Malleus Dei · 09-18-2004, 02:42 PM

Months after release, OOTP6 is still missing a manual, a major announced feature (H2H), its first major update, and numerous documented bug and AI fixes.

That statement is not an opinion. Spin it as you will, that statement remains a fact.

tim_uwrf · 09-18-2004, 03:18 PM

Boy am I glad that I passed on OOTP6 and stuck with 5.

atarizx3 · 09-18-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

No updates?

Being in IT and a past programmer myself, I find it amazing at how the creation of an application can be reduced down to something like sweeping the sidewalk by those that don't have a clue how to do it themselves. If you take that as harsh, compare it to how harsh you've been on Markus recently.

Well, buddy, I can recall a discussion a while back about the difference between a patch and an update. And there has been no "update" as far as this piece of software goes. Yes, the sim has been patched a couple of times (once to correct something from the prior patch, IICR), but not having a manual is ridiculous.

And once you charge for a product, and state that you will support it, that means you are viable for the satisfaction of your customers. If not, you lose customers.

And no, I don't know how to program a baseball sim.

That's why I PAY for someone else's baseball sim.

If he doesn't want the complaints/gripes/bitchings, then he shouldn't have charged for the game.

Could we have NOT purchased this sim? Of course.

But we were loyal. We believed that this product would be "updated" as "promised".

And that's the key word here. Were. Period.

I hope our esteemed programmer realizes that, for his real priority, the new ootp game.

Cuss16 · 09-18-2004, 03:22 PM

I believe the lack of communication is what most people are mad about. If anyone such as Markus and Steve can give us a more accurate update of what's really going down, I think most of us would be much more understanding.

Le Grande Orange · 09-18-2004, 03:22 PM

Am I the only one who remembers the massive amount of whining, moaning, and complaining that went on when OOTP6 wasn't released in the previously customary early to mid-March release date?

So, there is massive whining, moaning, and complaining when the game wasn't released when folks thought it should be, and now there's whining, moaning, and complaining because the game hasn't been patched/updated when folks think it should have been.

I'd be a lot more willing to give the latter consideration had the former not happened. But since it did, it makes it much harder for me to give the current unhappiness it's due credit.

As to fixing as many of the legacy bugs in the game as is possible, that certainly is a laudable goal. But then it has to be remembered that some of the things folks call bugs (i.e. the 255 stat limit) are in fact design limitations, not bugs. Those would have to be weeded out of any list of outstanding bugs to be addressed.

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I think the biggest difference between myself and those that feel the way I do, when compared to those that are insisting on retribution,

Retribution? So simply demanding that somebody give me WHAT I HAVE PAID HIM MONEY FOR is asking for retribution???? Cut the crap, Henry, and get off the high horse. We want what we were promised when we gave Markus our ****ing money. Don't give me this "you guys and you're retribution!" bull****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

One other thought before I leave this thread to the rest of you...

I firmly believe that Markus' intentions throughout all 6 versions has been honorable. All he tried to do was share with us his ideas and hopes for OOTP. In doing so, he felt comfortable enough with this community (or at least what it used to be) to give details of what he wanted to do - even before he was sure it could be done, hoping for comments and support.

To the letter, he has been blasted and insulted for not making deadlines, and not including each and every idea he's ever mentioned. Every word he has uttered has been taken apart, and thrown back at him in not so kind words.

And then you wonder why he doesn't visit as often as he once did....

His intentions may have been "honorable", but I and many others didn't give Markus our money because of his "intentions". We gave him our money because of what we were TOLD we were BUYING. And we have YET to be delivered that product.

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Am I the only one who remembers the massive amount of whining, moaning, and complaining that went on when OOTP6 wasn't released in the previously customary early to mid-March release date?

So, there is massive whining, moaning, and complaining when the game wasn't released when folks thought it should be, and now there's whining, moaning, and complaining because the game hasn't been patched/updated when folks think it should have been.

I'd be a lot more willing to give the latter consideration had the former not happened. But since it did, it makes it much harder for me to give the current unhappiness it's due credit.

Uh, the difference is that the current "whining, moaning, and complaining" isn't about what we "think it should have been". It's about what we were TOLD it WOULD be.

Eugene Church · 09-18-2004, 04:15 PM

Markus is IMO an honorable man.

And I think he is tired of the verbal abuse here on the forum...just like Henry and Steve probably are. None of them deserve this...and I hope it will stop.

For those who feel they didn't get their money's worth with OOTP6...ask for a refund...all they can do is say no...and they might give it to you.

OOTP6 is a great game and a great bargain...even with its shortcomings. It has given me untold hours of fun for the last two years at less than one cent a day.

I am lucky I came across Season Ticket Baseball (OOTP3) and I am thankful Markus provided me with the "baseball game of my dreams"...(I started with APBA in the early 50's...did my own stats by hand...kept my own scorebooks...and kept league standings on something called a "League-O-Meter"). In 1953 I couldn't even conceive of a game like OOTPB...in fact, I couldn't conceive of a game like it in 2002.

Markus has made it a reality...and I believe HE WILL MAKE IT EVEN BETTER with the help of SI.

I would like the leftover bugs from previous versions fixed and the play results to include all of the basic game plays (my personal pet peeve)...and I am willing to wait for him to do it. He has said he will provide an update prior to the playoffs to address some of the problems. If he cannot accomplish that, then I will have to wait longer...I have no choice.

HOWEVER...he needs to communicate better...just give us a status report.

If he can't solve a certain problem or not accomplish a certain feature...just tell us...that what most reasonable people want...INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION.

I would also like to see that discussions and opinions expressed on this board would be civilized, courteous and free from personal attacks and insults.

And like many of you, I am tired of discussing this ad nauseum.

Markus could put a stop to most of it by communicating with us monthly or quarterly.

Slackker · 09-18-2004, 04:18 PM

The thing you have to think about is that if a pattern of disassociation with the "community" and neglect for the product is established then customers, like myself, will seek out other ways to break their boredom. For some it isn't a matter of "This is the best baseball sim out there, so what else can I do but buy it?".

It's counterproductive if SI has Markus completely prohibited from updating v6 during office hours, considering that their goal in this whole deal is to make money and sell games. Happiness with version 6 creates more buyers for version 7. Some, granted, will stick with v6 due to this happiness, just like the transition from every new version of OOTP. However, come v8 those customers will be back again for another go-around. Most people who wait out versions can't go more than one installment without getting the new one. With that being said.. most happy customers are eager to open their wallets yet again.

Yes, Markus is allowed to make mistakes. However, generally admitting a mistake is the best way to go about mending fences. Had there been a post that said "Sorry guys, H2H is a giant pain and I don't think I'll be able to code it into the current design." I doubt the "backlash" would be this severe on that topic. I haven't seen such a post. Aside from which.. a lot of people don't care about H2H, and are more concerned with the major update to the game not being given any attention, or even the illusion of attention. It just so happens that it was set to coincide with H2H, and therefore it's mentioned as well. Most people find it more than just coincidence that this all happened after SI came into the mix. Personally, I find it a sign of things to come.

It's the communication that keeps a lot of us interested in OOTP, and now we're reduced to reading completely unprofessional potshots like "I hope you don't raise your kids this way" from some people, and absolutely nothing from others. The customers, like it or not, don't have to act professionally. When we opened our wallets we also bought the right to whine about every little thing.

As for oversimplification.. I don't think the majority of people are doing that. However, programming isn't all that complicated. I'm not saying that I could whip out a game such as OOTP in any reasonable time frame, however it's not my area of expertise. It isn't as if Markus just started, though.

When we bought version6 we took it for granted that the same level of communication would be maintained, and that simply hasn't happened. It was foolish of us, that much is for sure. However, using the excuse (and that's all it is) of version 7 and thinking that it will quiet the onlookers is ridiculous. I may be alone when I say this, but I don't care about version 7. I haven't bought that yet - nor will I. It's like if I wrote a series of books, and the last book was only a hundred pages.. and I said to my readers "Sorry guys, but I'm sure you understand.. I'm working on some haiku for my new project, so you can't complain because of course you're all going to buy the haiku and we'll all be better off in the end!". (I love run-on sentences.)

Yes, other games we would have no right to expect updates. Yes, we're lucky that there is a game where we can have those expectations. Hell, that's part of the reason that a LOT of customers bought the game. I wouldn't doubt if the thought of the community here on these boards, and the updates and patches we were accustomed to getting, was a thought in the mind of 80% of those who bought version 6.

Personally, I'm of the thinking that this will continue. Version 7 will come out, and then Markus will be chained to his desk for 40-60 hours working solely on that. Perhaps that's not true. Maybe this is just a solitary incident since SI doesn't make money directly off of v6, but indirectly it certainly will. If they aren't smart enough to realize that then I don't see why I should trust in SI the same way I've trusted in Markus for the past five years.

...and now I hush. =)

Henry · 09-18-2004, 04:31 PM

mats,

Quote:

Retribution? So simply demanding that somebody give me WHAT I HAVE PAID HIM MONEY FOR is asking for retribution???? Cut the crap, Henry, and get off the high horse. We want what we were promised when we gave Markus our ****ing money. Don't give me this "you guys and you're retribution!" bull****.

Another difference between you and I. I won't resort to cursing because I'm angry....

Ok... so what, exactly, is the issue?

From what you stated above, and from what I read in most posts, is "give me what I paid for". Right?

Does anyone actually think Markus has no intention of giving you what you paid for? Does anyone actually think there won't be an update as promised, and does anyone actually think that he won't give H2H every effort possible to get it into V6?

If you really don't think he is intending to do so, then I have to believe you've let your emotions get ahead of your wisdom.

If you DO believe he will do these things, THEN the issue is your not happy because you don't have them NOW. If we accept that as true, then folks like yourself are not going to be happy even when he does release the update... and if that's true, then what chance does Markus have in regaining your support?

It seems as if the issue is that 6 months is too long to wait for the final version of OOTP6 - yet every previous version took 5-6 months to complete all the patches and updates. So what makes V6 different?

The pattern V6 has followed (other than the late initial release) is pretty much the same pattern all other versions of OOTP followed... at least since V3 when I came on board. Each version has had it's major problems that had to be corrected, V5 included.

Mats, I'm not on any "high horse". I'm simply stating that V6 is being handled pretty much the same as earlier versions. Each version Markus followed through with most of the fixes and an update which added a new feature. Rarely did he fail (financial coefficient as an example).

V6 will be completed, probably around playoff time. At that time, per expectation, bugs will be fixed, and H2H will be added. Will it be perfect? No, but it will be as promised. Will everyone be happy? I doubt it.

So, just to cover this, what happens if Markus can't get H2H included? What if the issues cannot be resolved in time? Does everyone start this cavalcade of complaints again?

Look, as I said when I was part of the staff, I have nothing to gain or lose by stating my opnion. It is not "party line". It is simply what I believe. I think OOTP is a great game. I also think it has some flaws. I ALSO think Markus will remain digilent to fix them as he can.

But I also think as customers, we have two choices. (1) Demand perfection, or at least demand that anything announced be completed on time and correctly - or (2) be satisfied with Markus doing his best to make the best baseball simulation available and help him in accomplishing that.

I choose the second option. Oh, and there is a third option - don't buy it.

SoxWin · 09-18-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach23BoyP

What does this mean to OOTP users? Great stuff -- that is what it means! If Markus can deliever 1/2 the stuff that is in FM2005 then OOTP7 will be vastly better than anyone of us can imagine! I can't wait for an animated ball field (I hope it is just like FM2005 animated pitch!), dealing with the press, dealing with player agents, dealing with player's head's, etc, and etc.

Some of us have no interest in this kind of micro managing, instead we prefer to focus on *gasp* the actual game at hand. To think none of us has heard of CM is rampant idiocy, thanks for showing up.

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 04:42 PM

It absolutely blows my mind that expecting people to meet deadlines that they are getting paid to meet and that expecting people to provide what they are getting paid to provide is unreasonable. I'm sure that there are millions of working stiffs the world over who wish they had a Henry to tell their bosses the deadlines and expectations are outrageous and we should just be happy with an adequate job done.

And Henry, you seem to be forgetting about that little "financial coeffecient" flap. Something that was promised and undelivered. To think there's no chance of Markus deciding that H2H is too hard and giving up is a head-in-the-sand reaction if ever there was one.

SoxWin · 09-18-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I had to respond to this... so, I assume folks are not allowed to make mistakes or misjudgements. Markus is a bad guy because his hopes and dreams are greater than what he can accomplish? He's failed, thus there should be retribution.

I hope you don't raise your kids this way.

You're the only one who's taking this, or making it, personal. People are disappointed in the product and especially it's support. Please point me to where anyone is saying these words you're putting in our mouths?

That being said

twins15 · 09-18-2004, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I had to respond to this... so, I assume folks are not allowed to make mistakes or misjudgements. Markus is a bad guy because his hopes and dreams are greater than what he can accomplish? He's failed, thus there should be retribution.

I hope you don't raise your kids this way.

Who said Markus was a bad guy?

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins15

Who said Markus was a bad guy?

Make that another wondering the same thing. Apparently it's Henry who's having problems separating business from personal here. I'm sure Markus is a swell guy. He just has some problems following through on promises he's made to paying customers.

Henry · 09-18-2004, 05:10 PM

Ok. Excuse me for stating my opinion which seems to be in the minority, and thus unimportant.

Just a couple things before I leave...

Mats, everyone that's been with OOTP for more than a year knows that this was his process. He's a one man show. Apparently, I'm the only one here that knows what it's like to run a business by yourself. Never enough time, never enough money, never enough support. Satisfaction of completion is what keeps you going.

Twins, I can pull out at least a dozen posts over the past month that were not only rude to Markus, but resorted to name calling. At least two of those posts had to be deleted.

Sox, It may seem I'm the only one taking this personal - maybe becasue I'm the only one that bothers to respond

But please don't tell me the majority of posts this past couple weeks wasn't "personal" as far as Markus was concerned.

It seems my opinions, even as an individual, are not popular with the crowd, so I'll just keep them to myself.

Enough said,

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

Mats, everyone that's been with OOTP for more than a year knows that this was his process. He's a one man show. Apparently, I'm the only one here that knows what it's like to run a business by yourself. Never enough time, never enough money, never enough support. Satisfaction of completion is what keeps you going.

Don't you dare try and pull this "you're young, I know better" crap on me. I spent my high school years working for a butcher in his early 50s that runs his own shop. Meat, bakery, catering, he does it all. And it's him and his wife. That's IT. His day started at 5am and went til 7pm. 6 days a week. And he had to meet each and every one of his customer's demands, because to do otherwise was akin to financial suicide for a small business. Word of mouth is deadly. If Joe Moses made a promise, then he made DAMN sure that he followed through on his promise.

So don't you DARE try and pull this garbage on me. I know full well what a bitch it is running one's own business. I also know that it is absolutely NO excuse for not delivering the product that was promised.

Kemp · 09-18-2004, 05:16 PM

I've never posted in any of these discussions before but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents since people seem to be getting very upset. I'm not much of a writer, so here is my thinking in bullet form:
* Markus is a young guy with (probably) very little business experience. If I were running my own "company" at age 25 (not to mention a company with DIRECT CUSTOMER ACCESS) I'm sure I'd make mistakes too. I won't even mention that he's a continent away from his primary market. Relax, recognize that he's trying, and hope that any/all issues will eventually be addressed. So far, they have been.

* OOTP is an excellent game. Well thought out, with features that we, the community, asked for. It's gotten much better since version 1 and I'm sure it'll get MUCH better now that there are greater resources behind it. I've never played Championship Manager (I believe that's the soccer sim everyone talks about) but if that's the direction OOTP is heading (based on others feedback) then we're in excellent shape.

* I do understand the complaints about the missing head to head feature (though it doesn't interest me) and I think that if you're truly that dissatisfied with the current product, you should probably ask for your money back. That seems reasonable.

* Lastly, we're lucky that we have created/found this "community" of people who have the same interests and are excited by something as "silly" (hey, I quoted my wife!) as a text based baseball sim. I thought I was the only person in the world who created his own baseball universes using wacky dice games and paper. And now, we have this great real-time community making facepacks, logos, schedules, and discussing fake baseball worlds. I think we should be thankful that we've found this little niche and let it evolve in due time. I've waited for 20 years for a game like this, I can wait a little longer while it takes shape and improves.

The purpose of all this wasn't to talk down to anyone or to trumpet the old "chill out" message, but rather to try to diffuse the situation a little. I'd hate to see this whole thing fall apart because Markus and the new company he's with need some time to adjust.

matskralc · 09-18-2004, 05:18 PM

Oh and another thing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

Ok. Excuse me for stating my opinion which seems to be in the minority, and thus unimportant...

It seems my opinions, even as an individual, are not popular with the crowd, so I'll just keep them to myself.

Do you have a timetable for when you're going to stop putting words in our mouths? Or are you just going to keep it up until people stop noticing?

09-18-2004, 03:22 PM	#25
Cuss16 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: BC, CANADA Posts: 2,994	I believe the lack of communication is what most people are mad about. If anyone such as Markus and Steve can give us a more accurate update of what's really going down, I think most of us would be much more understanding. __________________

09-18-2004, 04:15 PM	#29
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,983	Markus is IMO an honorable man. And I think he is tired of the verbal abuse here on the forum...just like Henry and Steve probably are. None of them deserve this...and I hope it will stop. For those who feel they didn't get their money's worth with OOTP6...ask for a refund...all they can do is say no...and they might give it to you. OOTP6 is a great game and a great bargain...even with its shortcomings. It has given me untold hours of fun for the last two years at less than one cent a day. I am lucky I came across Season Ticket Baseball (OOTP3) and I am thankful Markus provided me with the "baseball game of my dreams"...(I started with APBA in the early 50's...did my own stats by hand...kept my own scorebooks...and kept league standings on something called a "League-O-Meter"). In 1953 I couldn't even conceive of a game like OOTPB...in fact, I couldn't conceive of a game like it in 2002. Markus has made it a reality...and I believe HE WILL MAKE IT EVEN BETTER with the help of SI. I would like the leftover bugs from previous versions fixed and the play results to include all of the basic game plays (my personal pet peeve)...and I am willing to wait for him to do it. He has said he will provide an update prior to the playoffs to address some of the problems. If he cannot accomplish that, then I will have to wait longer...I have no choice. HOWEVER...he needs to communicate better...just give us a status report. If he can't solve a certain problem or not accomplish a certain feature...just tell us...that what most reasonable people want...INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION. I would also like to see that discussions and opinions expressed on this board would be civilized, courteous and free from personal attacks and insults. And like many of you, I am tired of discussing this ad nauseum. Markus could put a stop to most of it by communicating with us monthly or quarterly. Last edited by Eugene Church; 09-18-2004 at 04:17 PM.

09-18-2004, 03:18 PM	#23
tim_uwrf Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Field of Dreams Posts: 1,998	Boy am I glad that I passed on OOTP6 and stuck with 5.

09-18-2004, 03:22 PM	#26
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Am I the only one who remembers the massive amount of whining, moaning, and complaining that went on when OOTP6 wasn't released in the previously customary early to mid-March release date? So, there is massive whining, moaning, and complaining when the game wasn't released when folks thought it should be, and now there's whining, moaning, and complaining because the game hasn't been patched/updated when folks think it should have been. I'd be a lot more willing to give the latter consideration had the former not happened. But since it did, it makes it much harder for me to give the current unhappiness it's due credit. As to fixing as many of the legacy bugs in the game as is possible, that certainly is a laudable goal. But then it has to be remembered that some of the things folks call bugs (i.e. the 255 stat limit) are in fact design limitations, not bugs. Those would have to be weeded out of any list of outstanding bugs to be addressed.

09-18-2004, 04:18 PM	#30
Slackker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 777	The thing you have to think about is that if a pattern of disassociation with the "community" and neglect for the product is established then customers, like myself, will seek out other ways to break their boredom. For some it isn't a matter of "This is the best baseball sim out there, so what else can I do but buy it?". It's counterproductive if SI has Markus completely prohibited from updating v6 during office hours, considering that their goal in this whole deal is to make money and sell games. Happiness with version 6 creates more buyers for version 7. Some, granted, will stick with v6 due to this happiness, just like the transition from every new version of OOTP. However, come v8 those customers will be back again for another go-around. Most people who wait out versions can't go more than one installment without getting the new one. With that being said.. most happy customers are eager to open their wallets yet again. Yes, Markus is allowed to make mistakes. However, generally admitting a mistake is the best way to go about mending fences. Had there been a post that said "Sorry guys, H2H is a giant pain and I don't think I'll be able to code it into the current design." I doubt the "backlash" would be this severe on that topic. I haven't seen such a post. Aside from which.. a lot of people don't care about H2H, and are more concerned with the major update to the game not being given any attention, or even the illusion of attention. It just so happens that it was set to coincide with H2H, and therefore it's mentioned as well. Most people find it more than just coincidence that this all happened after SI came into the mix. Personally, I find it a sign of things to come. It's the communication that keeps a lot of us interested in OOTP, and now we're reduced to reading completely unprofessional potshots like "I hope you don't raise your kids this way" from some people, and absolutely nothing from others. The customers, like it or not, don't have to act professionally. When we opened our wallets we also bought the right to whine about every little thing. As for oversimplification.. I don't think the majority of people are doing that. However, programming isn't all that complicated. I'm not saying that I could whip out a game such as OOTP in any reasonable time frame, however it's not my area of expertise. It isn't as if Markus just started, though. When we bought version6 we took it for granted that the same level of communication would be maintained, and that simply hasn't happened. It was foolish of us, that much is for sure. However, using the excuse (and that's all it is) of version 7 and thinking that it will quiet the onlookers is ridiculous. I may be alone when I say this, but I don't care about version 7. I haven't bought that yet - nor will I. It's like if I wrote a series of books, and the last book was only a hundred pages.. and I said to my readers "Sorry guys, but I'm sure you understand.. I'm working on some haiku for my new project, so you can't complain because of course you're all going to buy the haiku and we'll all be better off in the end!". (I love run-on sentences.) Yes, other games we would have no right to expect updates. Yes, we're lucky that there is a game where we can have those expectations. Hell, that's part of the reason that a LOT of customers bought the game. I wouldn't doubt if the thought of the community here on these boards, and the updates and patches we were accustomed to getting, was a thought in the mind of 80% of those who bought version 6. Personally, I'm of the thinking that this will continue. Version 7 will come out, and then Markus will be chained to his desk for 40-60 hours working solely on that. Perhaps that's not true. Maybe this is just a solitary incident since SI doesn't make money directly off of v6, but indirectly it certainly will. If they aren't smart enough to realize that then I don't see why I should trust in SI the same way I've trusted in Markus for the past five years. ...and now I hush. =)

09-18-2004, 04:42 PM	#33
matskralc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,076	It absolutely blows my mind that expecting people to meet deadlines that they are getting paid to meet and that expecting people to provide what they are getting paid to provide is unreasonable. I'm sure that there are millions of working stiffs the world over who wish they had a Henry to tell their bosses the deadlines and expectations are outrageous and we should just be happy with an adequate job done. And Henry, you seem to be forgetting about that little "financial coeffecient" flap. Something that was promised and undelivered. To think there's no chance of Markus deciding that H2H is too hard and giving up is a head-in-the-sand reaction if ever there was one.

09-18-2004, 05:10 PM	#37
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Ok. Excuse me for stating my opinion which seems to be in the minority, and thus unimportant. Just a couple things before I leave... Mats, everyone that's been with OOTP for more than a year knows that this was his process. He's a one man show. Apparently, I'm the only one here that knows what it's like to run a business by yourself. Never enough time, never enough money, never enough support. Satisfaction of completion is what keeps you going. Twins, I can pull out at least a dozen posts over the past month that were not only rude to Markus, but resorted to name calling. At least two of those posts had to be deleted. Sox, It may seem I'm the only one taking this personal - maybe becasue I'm the only one that bothers to respond But please don't tell me the majority of posts this past couple weeks wasn't "personal" as far as Markus was concerned. It seems my opinions, even as an individual, are not popular with the crowd, so I'll just keep them to myself. Enough said,

09-18-2004, 05:16 PM	#39
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	I've never posted in any of these discussions before but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents since people seem to be getting very upset. I'm not much of a writer, so here is my thinking in bullet form: * Markus is a young guy with (probably) very little business experience. If I were running my own "company" at age 25 (not to mention a company with DIRECT CUSTOMER ACCESS) I'm sure I'd make mistakes too. I won't even mention that he's a continent away from his primary market. Relax, recognize that he's trying, and hope that any/all issues will eventually be addressed. So far, they have been. * OOTP is an excellent game. Well thought out, with features that we, the community, asked for. It's gotten much better since version 1 and I'm sure it'll get MUCH better now that there are greater resources behind it. I've never played Championship Manager (I believe that's the soccer sim everyone talks about) but if that's the direction OOTP is heading (based on others feedback) then we're in excellent shape. * I do understand the complaints about the missing head to head feature (though it doesn't interest me) and I think that if you're truly that dissatisfied with the current product, you should probably ask for your money back. That seems reasonable. * Lastly, we're lucky that we have created/found this "community" of people who have the same interests and are excited by something as "silly" (hey, I quoted my wife!) as a text based baseball sim. I thought I was the only person in the world who created his own baseball universes using wacky dice games and paper. And now, we have this great real-time community making facepacks, logos, schedules, and discussing fake baseball worlds. I think we should be thankful that we've found this little niche and let it evolve in due time. I've waited for 20 years for a game like this, I can wait a little longer while it takes shape and improves. The purpose of all this wasn't to talk down to anyone or to trumpet the old "chill out" message, but rather to try to diffuse the situation a little. I'd hate to see this whole thing fall apart because Markus and the new company he's with need some time to adjust.