When is OOTP6 going to be stable and working?

[rogmax11]

All I can add is that Eck is a pretty decent canary in the coal mine: if HE is pissed enough to complain then you can believe the problems are real and shared by enough consumers to merit serious notice by OOTPD.

[Dan Theman]

Originally posted by JimboJones
When it comes to support and customer service yes. Markus does an excellent job of listening to and responding to his cutomers.

When it comes to testing, I think OOTPD falls short. I think in general, video games do a much better job of testing and releasing games with a minimum of bugs. Especially considering most video game systems do not have a way to implement patches after the game is released.

While I wouldn't compare console games to PC games, I still think you still having something of a valid point.

Console games generally cannot be patched, and so companies either take extra time to get these games in working order, or much more often they just don't have the same complexity and depth that PC games do. With PC games, companies enjoy the advantage of being able to offer games that are far more intricate yet less complete because they're aware that patches can be easily implemented. This is an advantage because the companies can obtain the profits more quickly, which in turn (ideally) funds further video game development at an earlier and more rapid pace than they would otherwise be able to maintain.

Companies are able to follow this practice because the demand for the newest games (and newest versions of said games) is so high that people are willing to spend money on them fully knowing that there are likely to be kinks or quirks in the original program. These companies are then almost forced to do so by their competitors for fear of losing market share. It's come to the point that nowadays, nearly everyone who buys a PC game and has a modicum of savvy instantly looks to see if any patches are published as soon as the game goes on the hard drive. I personally think we've been spoiled, so to speak - a compliment to OOTP in this case.

I remember back in March right in the middle of beta testing, Markus made a comment like "Beta testing is going well, and I am working on some additional features to be added before release." As a software development myself, this scared the crap out of me. That is not how it's supposed to work ladies and gentlemen. You stop adding new features, you alpha test it among the developers, and then you open it up to the beta testers. Any coding after that point should be to tweak the code and squash bugs only. At no point in the beta process are you supposed to add new features. No matter how simple they may seem, there is just too much risk of introducing new bugs that the beta testers won't have time to test.

Okay, okay - I'll have to agree with you on that one. It was perhaps a little too ambitious of Markus. Et tu, Brute?

I'm not blaming Markus or the beta testers. I just think the process is flawed. Hopefully that will be remedied when SI takes over.

It's true that the process is flawed, hence the flawed games. .400 Studios was mentioned, and they're one of my favorite examples - Season Ticket Football, anyone? Ick.

It would be wonderful if we did receive a much more complete product whenever we bought a game. I believe that's why OOTP7 won't be available for another year and a half, despite the added resources of SI. OOTPD is (hopefully) once again trying to buck the trend.

- Dan

[JimboJones]

Too ambitious is exactly the right sentament. They rushed the game out to coincide with the beginning of baseball season, pure and simple.

[Ragnar]

1. Financial coeficient was promised for v6 when? Maybe when it was scrapped for V5 but I do not recall FC. in the features list for V6. I could be wrong.

2. Head to Head play......This is the one feature that matters to me most and until the say it's not in i'll assume it's being added. They said they are starting on the first big update with no time table and i'm assuming H2H is part of that.

3. Waivers.....What's wrong with waivers?

4. I do not see any top prospects being dumped and i'm constantly checking. I also play out all games so I do not notice speed problems.......I can't comment on it.

Alot of you guys wanted the game quick, rush rush rush then say it was released too early.

[BigNastyKrust]

Okay... I am a newbie and will get flamed for this, but Jesus H Christ. What exactly does it take to please you folks? Everybody bitched, whined, pissed, and moaned about the game not being out the exact minute Markus supposedly promised. If he were to test the game with EVERY adjustment, nuance, setting, whatever, that we conjure up in the game, it wouldn't come out until August - earliest. I hardly think that there is another game with a development team that actually listens to the input and issues from the customers like the OOTP team does. If you want "pure and simple", it goes like this:

If you don't like it... don't F-ing buy it, or don't play it.

As for my personal experience, I haven't run into many issues at all. Sim slowdown from the last patch kinda sucks, but I'll get over it. I know Markus is looking into it. Other than that and maybe some really nit-picky stuff, it's been an absolute pleasure to play. Now, I haven't added all the mods that most of you do, so maybe that's why my game doesn't give me problems, I don't know. I am just F-ing tired of reading all the bitching about the game. It's a fantastic game - has been since I started with OOTP4 - and I challenge anyone to find it's equal. I appreciate Markus, Kuffrey and Henry and their candor on this forum, cuz they take it in the shorts from a lot of people on here. They are doing their best to make everybody here happy, which seems to be a nearly impossible task. They're not gonna stop down because somebody thinks the OBP is a couple of points too high or that there aren't enough SB in a given era. I enjoy an accurate sim as much as the next guy but damn... Give Markus and his team credit for putting out a pretty F-ing good baseball sim and realize that the world is an imperfect place... screws fall out all the time sir. I'm quite positive that Markus would love to have a "PERFECT" game (no pun intended, but fitting), but it's totally unreasonable to think that it will ever be. Why doesn't everyone just calm down and have some dip...

I'm done.
Let the flaming begin.

[Ragnar]

You bum!!

[Rizon]

All I can say is that this years release was different than all the ones we've been use to, and us old timers just want to know what the **** is going on.

[SoxWin]

Since Eck referenced my post in the initial one, I'll quote the whole goddamn mess over here.

Quoted from the OTBL board

I'm not the best at this, but let me try to channel 6toes for a minute here.

Since the merger with SI, a few things have occured to me.

1. Markus wants to make the most money possible, which is emminently fair. It's also going to cost his loyal fanbase a quality game.

2. He knew about this merger a while ago, long before we did, which is also fair and pretty ****ing obvious.

3. He knew things like waivers weren't going to be in the game despite advertising that they would be. (It was apparently "too hard" to make them work properly so he intentionally left in a non working feature) That right there is false advertising and pisses me off no end.

Same goes for head to head. I'm willing to bet my first born child and every one thereafter that it never makes it into v6 period.

4. SI will more then likely turn this into a more accurate sim. However, they will also butcher the interface worse then it is, make you micromanage your team to death, and make the game slower then molasses in January.

5. "Our" board will be gone soon enough, we'll be assimilated with SI, and if you don't like it, go screw.

If I'd known what we do know when the preorder was announced, I wouldn't have bought. In fact, I'm kicking myself for being naive enough to think they were actually rewarding loyal customers. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, but by Christ, OOTPD has certainly made me feel like I did.

For too long, we've had this great little niche game that only a few thousand people knew about. We had a great community and a development team that seemed to really care about our input and a quality final product. I don't get that feeling anymore.

It all comes back to #1 above. For 4 or 5 years, Markus has made a nice little living providing us with hours of enjoyment through his programming skills. Now, he wants more exposure and will have it provided by a big software company. SI can give Markus the kind of exposure Skipaway only wishes he sees in his dreams, and with that comes more cash.

I guess I really can't fault him for making the move, I don't like it because it hurts me, but I can't fault him. It's only natural for people to look after their own interests first.

The fact that waivers were advertised as a working feature when the developer knew damn well that they weren't is an absolute disgrace. More then that, it's an outright bold faced lie.

I'm not sure how as a consumer I'm supposed to be happy about that, perhaps someone who disagrees with me would care to explain.

I've been a loyal customer since v2, and I'll probably buy v7, but we'll have to see how much SIification happens. If the interface/speed is anything like CM and the EHM demo, I won't buy it, but I'm willing to cross my fingers and hope that's not the way it goes.

Honestly, I feel a little used. I don't like to think of myself as a naive person, but the fact I fell for the pre order price makes me think that I am. Without the price break, and having read this board from the release date to now, no way in hell would I have bought yet. Giving people the discounted price convinced a bunch of people who would otherwise take the "wait and see" or "I'll buy it when the bug threads stop popping up every 5 minutes" to buy the game in advance.

Head to head? That's going the way of "the link"

[SoxWin]

Originally posted by Rizon
All I can say is that this years release was different than all the ones we've been use to, and us old timers just want to know what the **** is going on.

It's called 400SS marketing 101.

Promise the world, deliver whatever the hell you feel like because the money's in the bank baby.

[jazzrack]

I am not having ANY of the problems that some of you have, It has been very stable and works fine on my machine

[slic1149]

I am really torn about this whole discussion. Over the past few years ootp has given me many hours of pleasure. Certainly much more enjoyment than the money I've invested. During that time I have watched impatient and unreasonable customers complain about the silliest things and roast a development crew that obviously is committed to customer satisfaction.

Having said those kind words it seems since the release of ootp6 for many of us this version has been more problematic than it should be after 5 previous versions. My concern is that the complaints this time are coming from veteran players who have supported the company for many years. By looking at the registration dates on this thread the majority of the folks have been here for at least a couple of years. Also this is not the same old grumps and complainers who show up with every version and patch. Seems to me that the development team should be taking this thread pretty serious.

All of us who have been using text based games for many years and have used many different games understand that the perfect game is still somewhere under construction. However our concern with missing features, slow downs, lack of documentation, and instability are certainly valid. It is my hope that Markus and the rest of the staff don't get so bogged down with the business and marketing side of the game that they forget the best way to grow its business is by keeping the existing customer base content and by not letting the fact you produce the best existing game keep you from making it get better. There are serious problems with this version that have kept many of us from getting maximum enjoyment out of the game. Please continue to work on getting these problems solved.

[Bears5122]

My post will be short and simple:

I think ITP really hurt OOTP. I think time normally spent working on OOTP in the offseason wasn't and the game felt very rushed. It felt like Markus woke up one day in February and said "sh!t, let's put something together".

[Teddyballgame]

I have been playing since OOTP3. The past games were great and I never visited the forums unless I needed some technical help, which was always helped out nicely (may still be that way, I just learned my way around a computer a little bit...a very little bit). However, the game features I saw v3, v4, and v5 promised were always there. It's how I bought the game, by simply looking at the features list. However, with v6 that didn't happen. There were a number of features promised that simply didn't exist and I never saw a reasonable explanation. If OOTP didn't have such a good history, I never would have pre-ordered. I feel almost taken advantage of to an extent.

[Tavarin]

Originally posted by JimboJones
Too ambitious is exactly the right sentament. They rushed the game out to coincide with the beginning of baseball season, pure and simple.

Actually, they "rushed" the game out because of people on this board making millions of posts everyday saying "where's the game, where's the game"

[SoxWin]

No they didn't Tavarin.

They didn't release the game "until it was fully tested and ready" Ask any mod. As far as OOTPD was concerned, the game was ready to play.

[jazzrack]

from my point-of-view the game is stable and working,. Its gonna be hard to fix these "problems" when not everybody is having them

[rasnell]

There's a reason why I've purchased every version of OOTP since I discovered it. Each version had major enhancements and were delivered exactly as promised.

Patches were immediate when bugs were reported. People weren't flamed when they noted the bugs because Markus jumped on it right away and fixed it.

We waited for the release of OOTP 6 after it was "fully tested and ready."

It most certainly was not ready and still is not after three patches.

Pay attention to the long-timers on this thread who are stating facts. Something went wrong with OOTP 6 and one developer cannot juggle two games, a move from Germany to London and a new business deal without having some consequences or distractions.

I'm still hopeful for some substantive fixes -- based on a wonderful track record.

Expectations are high for this game because it is the best. When you release a new version with lots of exciting marketing, excuse us when we don't share in the enthusiasm when the game has a serious case of the slows, crashes through three patches, and introduces new bugs.

[Rizon]

I really need to add this because it's important: the guys that have complaints now are the guys who lobbied hard against releasing the game early. They wanted things done right.

I trust these posters. Guys like Eck, sixto, SoxWin, ctorg, statfreak, etc have been around a long time, they're solid members of this community. These guys have been called the "fanboys" in the past. On now they're upset, and I hate to see it.

I love this game, I really do, it's by far one of the best games I've played for several years. Since I've been here, and at the old message forums since v2, things have always gone smoother than this. Some problem crops up, bam, Markus is there to fix it. I just can't remember seeing things like this since v1/2.

I think some of us are upset because their hasn't been as much communication about things as there has been in the past. We're not use to this. Markus is a great guy and has been open about bugs and problems in the past. But not this time. Say something, anything; maybe a "the code was alot harder to program than I thought, sorry for not being around as much, but this could take some time" or "I'm dealing with some things in my life right now and it's taking up alot of my time."

Another sore spot for me is the manual should be out by now, I mean seriously. Although the last manual I read thouroughly was v2, it would be incredibly helpful if some of the new buyers had ... something. Add on top of it that this forum code has been **** for quite some time, and either the search function has been disabled or it's been broken or the forum couldn't be accessed at all. That's not fair to new buyers. The whole game isn't rocket science, but some functions need explaining to people who are new.

I was part of the Hardball community when that series fell apart, and I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want to be part of something like that again. Maybe we're spoiled, but we want the good ol' days back again.

And it needs to be said again: I don't know many of these people who are saying the game sucks, just that over the course of this series things went a hell of a lot smoother than this, with much better customer service. I think as a very loyal fanbase we deserve at least that much.

[SoxWin]

Originally posted by jazzrack
from my point-of-view the game is stable and working,. Its gonna be hard to fix these "problems" when not everybody is having them

You're not, and that's great. However many, many people are.

We're not just talking about bugs and game crashes though, go back and read some of the posts in the thread

Things have changed quite a bit around here lately, and not for the better imo.

[sharpmath]

For those of you who were around for the relase of CM 03/04 over on the SI Boards (are there that many who are football/soccer and baseball fans like I am?) this whole discussion seems very familiar! I'm saying there is any correlation, just you know.. saying.

Personally the game works great for me, but I am nowhere near the expert on things like trades etc. as some might be.