Unbiased poll shows Gagnes streak is the greatest! - Page 2

ctorg · 05-25-2004, 08:56 AM

I always thought the record for most consecutive stolen bases without getting caught blew all the others out of the water. Hits aren't that important. Stolen bases are what make or break a team.

fat dude · 05-25-2004, 03:06 PM

This would have been more interesting if it read:

"Unbiased poll shows Angus steak is the greatest!"

clarnzz · 05-25-2004, 10:47 PM

Sounds like a hugely important record.

Tom Gordons thoughts when he broke it:

"When Gordon was advised of the broken record he told the media, "I don't have any feelings on that. I don't even know whose record I broke so I don't have any feelings on that.""

Art99 · 05-25-2004, 11:36 PM

I'd still go with Dimmagio's streak. Save records are being challenged every year and the standards for getting one are too easy. I remember back when Rollie Fingers got 30 saves and everyone thought it was so amazing. Dimaggio's streak has stood for a long long time and no one has come close except for Rose. Certainly Gagne's streak is gtreat but not the greatest. Isn't a poll by La fans a bit biased too ? I doubt if it were national his would win.

Xenimus0 · 05-26-2004, 12:02 AM

Wait...did people not see the joke by Karros? Or did I not read this thread good enough? Unbiased poll...on Dodgers.com

CMH · 05-26-2004, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xenimus0
Wait...did people not see the joke by Karros? Or did I not read this thread good enough? Unbiased poll...on Dodgers.com

Yes, this whole thread is definitely a joke.

ctorg · 05-26-2004, 11:53 AM

In all seriousness, I think we should eliminate saves as an official statistic. They are among the most meaningless stats out there.

IatricSB · 05-26-2004, 11:57 AM

.... and while we're at it, let's eliminate Wins since everyone knows you can get a cheap win that means nothing.

ctorg · 05-26-2004, 02:41 PM

Wins at least have some correlation to ability. I think maybe the win/loss rules need some work, but at least there's something so be said for wins. Saves are just pointless. All they do is encourage managers to use their pitchers less effectively, IMO.

IatricSB · 05-26-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctorg
Saves are just pointless.

I used to feel that way. But try having a team with Mitch Williams trying to finish out the win as opposed to a Gagne. It's very demoralizing to have a relief staff that gives away your lead in the late innings. I used to cringe when the Dodgers would trot out some guy (Steve Howe, Tom NeedAFire, etc) to finish the game. It's such a relief when you have a lead in the 9th and know that you can hand off the game to Gagne instead of NeedAFire.

Ask any Red Sox fan how they felt when Stanley came into the WS game against the Mets (I blame Stanley more than Buckner for that one). Or how about the 1985 playoffs when NeedAFire couldn't get light hitting Ozzie Smith out at the end of the game.

Yes managers try to manage too much to the save and should just bring in the pitcher needed. But what a comfort to know that your reliever is not going to lose 20 or 30% of the games he comes in to pitch.

Mel_Ott · 05-27-2004, 02:55 AM

What about Jeter's untouchable "consecutive meals bought for teammates" streak? Guy's clutch, and a real leader in the clubhouse. It's intangibles like his that make the Yankees the team they are!

matskralc · 05-27-2004, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mel_Ott
What about Jeter's untouchable "consecutive meals bought for teammates" streak? Guy's clutch, and a real leader in the clubhouse. It's intangibles like his that make the Yankees the team they are!

Typical New York bias. Jeff Conine smashed that record last year. How else do you think the Marlins won it all?

jaxmagicman · 05-27-2004, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by matskralc
Typical New York bias. Jeff Conine smashed that record last year. How else do you think the Marlins won it all?

Nice to see you giving love to the best player on the Marlins. Look, you all said, Derek Lee or Ivan Rodriquez are the True MVP's of the Marlins, Crackpott even brought up Hollandsworth as a good replacement. Well Lee, Pudge and Hollandsworth are gone and the Marlins are still in First Place. Matter of fact those guys can't even get in first place on their new teams. Shows what you stat heads know.

Skipaway · 05-27-2004, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IatricSB
I used to feel that way. But try having a team with Mitch Williams trying to finish out the win as opposed to a Gagne. It's very demoralizing to have a relief staff that gives away your lead in the late innings. I used to cringe when the Dodgers would trot out some guy (Steve Howe, Tom NeedAFire, etc) to finish the game. It's such a relief when you have a lead in the 9th and know that you can hand off the game to Gagne instead of NeedAFire.

Ask any Red Sox fan how they felt when Stanley came into the WS game against the Mets (I blame Stanley more than Buckner for that one). Or how about the 1985 playoffs when NeedAFire couldn't get light hitting Ozzie Smith out at the end of the game.

Yes managers try to manage too much to the save and should just bring in the pitcher needed. But what a comfort to know that your reliever is not going to lose 20 or 30% of the games he comes in to pitch.

It'd make more sense modifying the definition of save than getting rid of it.

One easy fix is using some kind of "saving point" = saves - 3*BS -3*relieve loss stuff. It's still easy for fans to understand, and it'd screen out some of the pretenders like Danny Graves this year.

Perhaps something need to be done with that three run one inning rule too.

05-25-2004, 08:56 AM	#21
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I always thought the record for most consecutive stolen bases without getting caught blew all the others out of the water. Hits aren't that important. Stolen bases are what make or break a team. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-26-2004, 11:53 AM	#27
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	In all seriousness, I think we should eliminate saves as an official statistic. They are among the most meaningless stats out there. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-26-2004, 11:57 AM	#28
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	.... and while we're at it, let's eliminate Wins since everyone knows you can get a cheap win that means nothing. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

05-26-2004, 02:41 PM	#29
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Wins at least have some correlation to ability. I think maybe the win/loss rules need some work, but at least there's something so be said for wins. Saves are just pointless. All they do is encourage managers to use their pitchers less effectively, IMO. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-27-2004, 02:55 AM	#31
Mel_Ott Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the deer and the antelope play Posts: 924	What about Jeter's untouchable "consecutive meals bought for teammates" streak? Guy's clutch, and a real leader in the clubhouse. It's intangibles like his that make the Yankees the team they are! __________________ jgross's worst nightmare!!!!111 Owner, Sin City Swingers, OBTL

05-25-2004, 03:06 PM	#22
fat dude Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 392	This would have been more interesting if it read: "Unbiased poll shows Angus steak is the greatest!"

05-25-2004, 10:47 PM	#23
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	Sounds like a hugely important record. Tom Gordons thoughts when he broke it: "When Gordon was advised of the broken record he told the media, "I don't have any feelings on that. I don't even know whose record I broke so I don't have any feelings on that.""

05-25-2004, 11:36 PM	#24
Art99 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 242	I'd still go with Dimmagio's streak. Save records are being challenged every year and the standards for getting one are too easy. I remember back when Rollie Fingers got 30 saves and everyone thought it was so amazing. Dimaggio's streak has stood for a long long time and no one has come close except for Rose. Certainly Gagne's streak is gtreat but not the greatest. Isn't a poll by La fans a bit biased too ? I doubt if it were national his would win.

05-26-2004, 12:02 AM	#25
Xenimus0 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 250	Wait...did people not see the joke by Karros? Or did I not read this thread good enough? Unbiased poll...on Dodgers.com