V6 Attendance sooo low

[akw4572]

Originally posted by rpckvv
excuse me for saying this, but this is a pathetic answer to a legitimate question about the way the game handles attendance. why in the world would a top-notch build a 50,000 seat stadium if they KNEW that they would never get more than 35,000 spectators on ANY given day?

i understand that ootp isnt supposed to imitate the mlb, but baseball is baseball and professional sports are professional sports. my example with houston could be extended to ANY sport.

dumb, non-helpful answer.

Change the fan interest, it's not the game's fault where it's set. Complain to the people who made the roster set, or change the interest. It's not "ootp's" fault.

[Mr.Opinion]

Originally posted by skkrrt

its just lower then version 5....which people cant stomach I guess.

I think that rpckvv is just pissed that he can't build his franchise by ripping off the CPU because he got sell out charging $20 a ticket.

Originially posted by rpckvv
and i think that's where the problem is. while i can see lowering attendance a bit so that there arent as many sellouts, i dont think the answer is lowering it by lets say 25%, so that absolutely no sellouts occur, and moreover the worse-off teams have atrocious attendance. there must be a way to curve attendance instead of lowering it as a whole. that way, good teams get 70-85% capacity and only a select few really good teams sell out (market HUGE, loyalty HUGE).

Listen n00b, I think you need to sit down and chill out. In case you haven't noticed, if you want your team to have "real" attendance, take a look at attendance records from 2003:

Montreal 81 home games / 12,662 per game
Tampa Bay 81 home games/ 13,070 per game
Florida 80 home games / 16,290 per game
Detroit 80 home games / 17,103 per game
Pittsburgh 78 home games / 20,983 per game.

The "worse-off teams" DO have attrocious attendance. Hell, the Yankees averaged 42,785 fans per home game in 2003. The OOTP curve mimicks reality more than your curve. And to refute your arguement that Houston should have a 33-37k fan base per game, Houston averaged 30,299 fans per home game in 2003.

[HolyCow98]

In my league...3rd season....every team is falling in the range of 27k-43k....except for one...with 52k per game....I actually think the low ranges in this league is too high....but 3 seasons isn't enough for me to make judgement yet.

[rpckvv]

thanks for the n00b tag. really cool. it answered my question in a succinct manner. oh and by the way, i've been playing ootp since OOTP1, so i'd hardly consider myself a newbie at this game, genius. i just havent considered it necessary life function to wasts my time posting on this message board like some people here.

oh and your refutation is my point exactly. with houston's average attendance around 30k, why am i getting 22,000 per game? i'm not mad that i'm not selling out (and i'm using the default roster packs), but i think attendance is too low. you wouldnt consider houston a "worse-off" team, would you?

i dont believe my argument is absurd, but i do think that attendance numbers are the polar opposite of what the were in OOTP5.

Maybe I'll run a few more seasons and see what's up. Maybe it's something nobody else is experiencing...

[Teflon]

For anyone that wants to tweak their current Fan Interest settings in OOTP6 to more realistic levels, I'm including a link that displays 2003 MLB attendance versus capacity for each team and assigns a percent based on available tickets sold. Not surprisingly, the Red Sox sold all of their available tickets last year. I would think that you could easily assign them a 100 for fan interest and not feel guilty.

2003 MLB Fan Interest

I'm also attaching a great link for average ticket price info. Not surprisingly, (again) the Red Sox also have the highest average ticket price. A textbook definition of supply and demand, it would appear.

Business of Baseball

Just a suggestion - I've been to a few real home openers that had promotions scheduled. No reason you can't add one in OOTP, too.

[Mds7361]

Im averaging 7,000 to 10,000 fans with the Pirates through the first 2 months of the season using CBL roster set. I been to Pirate games and that seems about right unless it is fireworks night.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally posted by JML
I noticed that home openers only count for an attendance boost if they are the season opener as well. If you satart your season on the road, you lose the almost-guaranteed sellout of your home opener.

Well, that's wrong and should be corrected. Whenever a team opens its season at home, whether its the first game of the season or several games into the season after starting off with a road trip, it gets a big bump in attendance.

In 1969-70 seasons that bump was, on average, pulling in a crowd twice the normal average. In 2000, due to much higher overall average attendance for baseball, the bump for home openers was 1.5 times the normal average of attendance.

Hmmm, looks like I was on to something when I started doing a little bit of attendance analysis not too long ago.

The last two posts in that thread show the average for home openers, in addtion to some other categories. The thread can be found here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=59632

[fantom1979]

Originally posted by rpckvv
i just havent considered it necessary life function to wasts my time posting on this message board like some people here.

I was just passing by and realized that someone had called my name.

[Markus Heinsohn]

The attendance figures in OOTP 5 were unrealistic. Mayn teams averaged 3,000,000+ fans per season. That got corrected. The loss in money was neutralized by the new calculation of the TV contracts.

However, I agree that low fan interest numbers (<50) produced slightly too few spectators. I fixed that. I also fixed the home opener bug.

[Le Grande Orange]

Good to hear, Markus!

Now if I could just convince you to add a "Average League Attendance" field to the other League Totals fields available. Then one could tailor the typical attendance for a league to an era in the same way they can currently tailor batting averages or home runs or stolen bases to an era.

When one considers the fact that MLB today on average pulls in twice as many fans per game as it did in 1970, and four times as many as in 1937, there is a wide variation in typical attendance levels that ought to be accounted for in some way.

Being able to tailor attendance levels to match the historical figures would look much more realistic, and would play a significant part in the financial aspect of the game as well. It also allows a lot of flexibility for fictional league players as well, since they could then set up small town leagues by getting the attendance levels to something more appropriate for that concept than would be the case for major league typical attendance levels.

[Another Mike D]

Originally posted by rpckvv
excuse me for saying this, but this is a pathetic answer to a legitimate question about the way the game handles attendance. why in the world would a top-notch build a 50,000 seat stadium if they KNEW that they would never get more than 35,000 spectators on ANY given day?

i understand that ootp isnt supposed to imitate the mlb, but baseball is baseball and professional sports are professional sports. my example with houston could be extended to ANY sport.

dumb, non-helpful answer.

All jokes aside, this sounds perfectly like MLB...

EVer hear of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cincinnati, San Diego (soon), Tampa Bay, and lots more. Teams that built new high capacity stadiums where nobody goes. In fact, if these teams saw 35,000 out of 50,000 on any non-$5 night, I'd be surprised.

[Cooker]

I converted my OOTP5 solo league to OOTP6 mid-season. No major problems I've noticed (so far).

In v. 5 my Pittsburgh attendance averaged around 20,000 per game. As soon as I went to v. 6 it dropped to around 14,000.

At least we now know it's because Markus felt v. 5's attendance numbers were too high. I have no problem with that. And if he's now "fixed" it somewhat by increasing attendance numbers slightly in the upcoming patch, even better!

[pallison14]

I'll reserve judgement until I've seen some multi-season simulations on it, but I'll chime in regardless.

In v5, there were WAY too many sellouts. IMHO, a team with 75-80 fan interest should not be selling out every home game. Even with a below average market size and loyalty, you could virtually sell out every single home game with a $10 or $11 ticket price.

Despite their enourmous fan base, even the Yankees and Red Sox do not sell out every last one of their home games (although the Red Sox, thanks to the limited capactiy of Fenway, come very close).

Other "MLB" examples include the Atlanta Braves and Oakland Athletcis. Both are high profile, winning clubs that, at times, struggle to draw fans. Oakland drew "just" 2.2 million fans in 2003, an average of just over 27,000 per game. IIRC, the Colisieum can seat up 55,000 fans. Why don't they sell more seats despite a large urban market and winning team? If you have an answer, I'm sure Billy Beane would like to hear it.

Florida won the World Series (tm) in 2003, and was in contention for much of the season. They drew just 1.3 million fans, or 16,000 per game.

Attendance fluctuate wildly in MLB, and hopefully will in OOTP as well. I'm sure with continued success and a very high Fan Interest rating (90+), the attendance will improve.

Oh, as far as the n00b tag is concerned - what gives? A legitiamte question and difference of opinion, and an over-reaction gets him flamed?

OMFG LAMER N00B G()T pWN3DDDD!!!!!11~~~

[pallison14]

Note: Fenway DID actually sell 100.2% of capacity last year, although I believe that they didn't sell out a few games early in the season.

Link to 2003 Attendance Figures: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attend...3&seasonType=2

[Another Mike D]

Damn those standing room only suckas...

[asamford]

Originally posted by Le Grande Orange

Being able to tailor attendance levels to match the historical figures would look much more realistic, and would play a significant part in the financial aspect of the game as well. It also allows a lot of flexibility for fictional league players as well, since they could then set up small town leagues by getting the attendance levels to something more appropriate for that concept than would be the case for major league typical attendance levels.

cool idea, although wouldn't it still affect the financials in a weird way until the financial coefficient is finally tackled?