OOTP Vs Other Management sims

[mking55]

Dare I post? I dare.

The best sports sim I have ever played in terms of accuracy, interaction with the developers, and reasonably intelligent fourm discussions is TBCB (Title Bout Championship Boxing).

After some thought, I think the game's biggest strength is at the same time it's biggest weakness for a large part of the gaming community.

It is not a career or role-playing sim in the sense that there is a computer AI to handle these things for you.

It is a career, role-playing sim if you as the gameplayer want to interact more with the game, and perform some manual labor. A lot of the users do so.

They take this marvelous product and it's engine, and create their own little worlds to create their own history of boxing. No AI yet designed is ever going to be better at this than what each person's imagination has to offer.

On the other hand, a lot of people don't want to do manual tracking of certain things. I am not condemning that. Therefore not having a career, role-playing AI is a negative.

But, and this is very important, you do have the freedom in this game to create your own 'career' and 'role-playing' model. I would have scoffed at this before purchasing the game. After purchasing it, playing it, and reading what other players do to enhance their experience, I can only say that the game and it's engine, combined with the player's imagination is unbeatable.

The game as originally released had very few bugs. Never did anyone from the company (or the player base) say, "Give us/them a break, it's a first version". What they did say, and I paraphrase, is "Sorry. It will be fixed soon or right away". And, they do release updates that I do not consider patches, but rather enhancements. Things that have been asked for that don't fix anything, but enhance the gaming experience.

If someone has a suggestion for the game, they post the suggestion. Andreas (programmer and board administrator and a bunch of other things) puts these suggestions in a forum where all can see the suggestions, but no one can comment except the game developers. None of this, "Bad idea, you're an idiot" or "who needs this" stuff. And you don't have to wallow thru the same request over and over. If the idea is good, the developers say, "Yes, it will make it in the game sometime". If there is a problem with the idea they post, "Can't do it because...". I love this method of keeping the user base informed and organized.

The AI engine is the best I have seen in a sim. That is where any game starts and builds on.

If you haven't tried this game (full featured demo available) produced by OOTP developments, I recommend reading the boards and giving it a try.

In my opinion, worthless as it sometimes is, this is head and shoulders the best gaming experience in the sports sim world I have ever had. (Except for maybe the original thrill and newness of Earl Weaver baseball).

Try it, try it, try it.

Your fanboy (I cannot believe I became one),
Martin

[Henry]

Originally posted by mking55
If someone has a suggestion for the game, they post the suggestion. Andreas (programmer and board administrator and a bunch of other things) puts these suggestions in a forum where all can see the suggestions, but no one can comment except the game developers. None of this, "Bad idea, you're an idiot" or "who needs this" stuff. And you don't have to wallow thru the same request over and over. If the idea is good, the developers say, "Yes, it will make it in the game sometime". If there is a problem with the idea they post, "Can't do it because...". I love this method of keeping the user base informed and organized.

Martin,

You and I haven't agreed on a lot of things, but I have to say this comment not only caught my attention, but is an excellent idea. Not sure how it would work here since Markus is the "only" developer - but I'll bring it up and see if we can do something similar. I can't promise, but I'll look into it.

Henry

[calaski8123]

Originally posted by mh2365
Because the girl in your avatar is too freaking hot to be posted only once in a row

Who is that?!?!?

[calaski8123]

Originally posted by mh2365
Because the girl in your avatar is too freaking hot to be posted only once in a row

Who is that?!?!?

Oh and I was into CM before OOTP. I agree that the latest version of CM is not as good as last year's. This new engine is slower and the depth of the game is almost "too much"... Sometime I feel like the game is a job!

But at least in my CM league Liverpool can win the EPL and Champions League! If I squint, the screen looks real and I don't have to feel so bad about how crappy they are this season in real life!

[Dud_Selig]

CM made me a soccer fan (well, kinda. MLS soccer sucks the fat one!). I'm already a baseball fanatic, so if OOTP6 is even half the game that CM is, I'll be even more obsessive about the game than I already am. That's the power a good sports sim can have.

...well, maybe just for obsessive types anyway.

[D'artagnan]

C'mon man, soccer is a horrible,boring game. I'd rather watch my grandma clean her dentures than watch soccer. Nothing comes close to OOTP.Kids who weren't good at baseball or football usually wind up playing soccer

[British Baseballer]

D'artagnan, the point of this post is not a baseball vs soccer debate, if you think it is you have missed the point. (I won't even go do the road of explaining why globally soccer is more popular than baseball, lets just agree to disagree.)

Clearly there is things that OOTP could learn from the far more experienced game that is CM. This doesnt mean that OOTP is not a highly addictive managment game.

I would love to see some of CM's features intergrated into OOTP, the implementation of a 2d view of a game like in CM would be superb.

its the little things that over time will be ironed out of OOTP, just as they have been in CM

[JPWagner]

Just to provide an example of how player-manager interaction can work: In Total Club Manager, I am managing Manchester City, and I recieve the following pop up during a training session:

"Darren Huckerby made a rather off color joke at your expense, not knowing that you were standing right behind him. You do the following:"

"Ignore him"

"Bring him to your office"

If you select "Ignore Him" you are informed that team morale decreased by 10% because they felt you should have reprimanded him

If you selected "Bring Him to your Office", the teams morale increases because they know you mean business.

It's a small thing really, but it's a nice touch and gives you a feeling that you're more involved....I'll probably now throw Huckerby on the transfer list!

[Stud Cantrell]

Originally posted by British Baseballer
(I won't even go do the road of explaining why globally soccer is more popular than baseball, lets just agree to disagree.)

(in my best John Cleese impression) Is that what made Britain great? "Let's just agree to disagree"?

It was that kind of thinking that cost the Suez!

But seriously: where's the fun in that? I think a thread-hijacking discursion into Why Soccer Stinks will be just the ticket for the when-will-Markus-release-the-game blooze.

[And forget about anyone here calling it "football". We know very well what real football is, thankyouverymuch.]

Top 3 Reasons Why Soccer Stinks

1) No scoring
2) Violence in the stands instead of on the field where it belongs
3) No cheerleaders!

[Bald Eagles]

Originally posted by D'artagnan
C'mon man, soccer is a horrible,boring game. I'd rather watch my grandma clean her dentures than watch soccer. Nothing comes close to OOTP.Kids who weren't good at baseball or football usually wind up playing soccer

I played Little League Baseball and Soccer (IRL). I wasn't the best at either, so what does that mean?

[JPWagner]

Originally posted by Anus Wagner
(in my best John Cleese impression) Is that what made Britain great? "Let's just agree to disagree"?

It was that kind of thinking that cost the Suez!

But seriously: where's the fun in that? I think a thread-hijacking discursion into Why Soccer Stinks will be just the ticket for the when-will-Markus-release-the-game blooze.

[And forget about anyone here calling it "football". We know very well what real football is, thankyouverymuch.]

Top 3 Reasons Why Soccer Stinks

1) No scoring
2) Violence in the stands instead of on the field where it belongs
3) No cheerleaders!

What the hell, I'll bite....the problem with US sports (I am an American by the way), is that fans are looking for the quick fix for satisfaction which translates into scoring....they cannot appreciate the anticipation and build up of a score, as they want it delivered on a fast food plate all the time, the home run, the slam dunk, the 70 yard TD pass...hockey is the closest example here as to why the lack of offense has been cited as the reason that it does not generate the television ratings that the other three major sports do....people think of soccer in very simplistic terms and do not appreciate the ebb and flow of the play on the pitch which can make a 0-0 match as exciting as if the score was 5-4...it's this notion and acceptance, that a scoreless tie can actually be an exciting game, which is anithema to a US sports fan ...are there boring and lousy soccer matches?...of course there are, but I can just as easily point to lousy football, baseball and basketball games that I have seen in my lifetime...what I do not appreciate are the people who ridicule soccer...not liking the game is one thing and believe it or not, there are people out there who do not like baseball, hockey, football, or basketball either for one reason or another...what bothers the hell out of me though is that many people simply cannot state that they do not like soccer simply because, it's not for them, they need to be arrogant about it and think that their dislike for the game must mean that it's no good, as if their opinion makes it a fact...

PS...I'm not referring to your post with that last comment AW, but what I find on other boards when this argument comes up....and you are right about the thuggery, it stinks, though believe it or not, they even made a pc video game where you are a thug travelling across Europe with your team, wrecking havoc....violence will always sell.....

[D'artagnan]

Originally posted by Bald Eagles
I played Little League Baseball and Soccer (IRL). I wasn't the best at either, so what does that mean?

That means that soccer still stinks and you should be embarrassed for telling anyone you actually played soccer

[calaski8123]

There use to be a game called Micro League Baseball that actually "showed" the game.. the hits, running, fielding, etc... I think that would add a great dimention to OOTP. The new 2D match in CM4 is good too, but the problem is it drags the game out too long. Especially in baseball, I like to see the results of my SIM's. I am currently in the 1980 season of a league I started in 1940. If I were to "watch" every game, I would still be in 1940!

So I think the option would be great for when I actually play the game, like World Series and close pennant races, but overall it may give the same overbearing feeling that CM4 has now.

As for the debate this thread started... differences between CM4 and OOTP... well, OOTP has about half the depth and detail that CM does. I am not bashing OOTP, obviously I love it and it gets just as much play as CM, if not more right now... But, the support and detail put into the game is obvious to see. As OOTP progresses and they get additiona help and backing, I am sure we will se everything and more in it.

Some great features and differences:

OOTP salary negotiations are amount and years. CM has amount, years, bonuses (goal, assist, etc), release clauses.

Managers in CM have the ability and responsibility to release info and respond to events in the media... paper, TV, and internet.

Training methods, schedules, and even down to the actual training games.

You hire and fire coaches, scouts, physios (medical), assistan managers, etc... they can go anywhere in the world and send scouting reports on players, teams, next opponent, youth, etc.

Player moods.. Player going AWOL and refusing to play. Player fueds with each other, with manager, fan feelings towards club and manager.

Pre-season games, tours, training.

The depth of the player database alone encompasses over 30 nations leagues in detail as well as less detail that covers EVERY NATION in the world... that would be like OOTP including every minor league team, college team, carribean, central america, Japan, Korean, and any other baseball league you can think of.. IN DETAIL! Real players, not just made up ones that sound like they are from the country..

An amazing amount of detail and effort has gone into each release of the developemtn of CM. I started about 7 years back and the game has gone through a remarkable evolution. I am sure OOTP will have a similar one. I already see examples like college stats, teams, and histories for players... Both games are great, CM is just a little farther ahead.. but that is just time wise, not quality.

As for the debate... I played soccer and baseball in school and excelled at both. I would have played football too, but it was the same season as soccer. As for pick up games in football, I was always one of the better players, so your theory that bad football player play soccer is ******ed... soccer requires more skill anyway, so someone who couldn't tackle a guy isn't going to be able to dribble a ball, let alone dribble past anyone and be able to shoot.

In my adult life, I have expanded to play hockey, which I now wish I had the money for when I was younger... I think the reason I love soccer and hockey so much, and low scoring baseball is precisely due to the low scoring... the effort, build-up, and close calls so heighten the anticipation of scoring that when your team finally does, the release and celebration is ten fold that of anything in football.

That said, I am a huge football fan as well, so I have nothing to knock on it. Just saying soccer is easily as exciting and the popularity of the sports world-wide is not even close.

[Mds7361]

Originally posted by D'artagnan
C'mon man, soccer is a horrible,boring game. I'd rather watch my grandma clean her dentures than watch soccer. Nothing comes close to OOTP.Kids who weren't good at baseball or football usually wind up playing soccer

This is one of the dumbest post I have read and the only thing it accomplished was making everyone else dumber for reading such an idiotic comment.

[calaski8123]

Originally posted by Mds7361
This is one of the dumbest post I have read and the only thing it accomplished was making everyone else dumber for reading such an idiotic comment.

I award you no points and may God have mercy upon your soul.

[AJTrenkle]

British Baller, dont want you to jet off to the moon anytime soon so I am sorry for my faux pas. Just trying to step off topic and criticize the Bush administration's grand vision of driving wedges between historic friends.

[Crapshoot]

Originally posted by D'artagnan
C'mon man, soccer is a horrible,boring game. I'd rather watch my grandma clean her dentures than watch soccer. Nothing comes close to OOTP.Kids who weren't good at baseball or football usually wind up playing soccer

Aha, the maturity of an American teen. Seriously- don't start with "football" (yes, that's what its called) - lets stay on topic.

[EagleFan]

Can I retract my earlier post? If I knew that this thread would be the mere idiotic BS that seems to happen whenever soccer is mentioned on a message board, I would have just stayed away fromt he thread all-together.

What makes this worse is that the thread has nothing to do with soccer and nothing was ever said to promote soccer. Just differences beween a soccer sim and a baseball sim.

Good thing no-one mentioned NASCAR too, this thread would have really turned into a pissing match.

Of course both sides share a bit of the blame. It was certainly started by the anti-soccer crowd and some of the usual juvenile posts from some of that crowd (see the grandma's dentures post) but there is the usual arrogance of some of the pro-soccer people (they tend to take the high ('better than you' because you just don't 'understand' it) road) displayed in this thread.

Oh well, you may return to the bickering...

Oh yeah, when will OOTP6 be coming out? What's the latest target date? Many people have paid for it and are waiting patiently. What ever happened to Mal? NASCAR is nothing more than red-necks going in circles. Bush has gotten us into this war and it's his fault that the Titanic sunk, he was warned. (figured we might as well stir all of the pots)

[Mds7361]

I was just releasing anger as I wait for OOTP6

[D'artagnan]

Originally posted by Mds7361
This is one of the dumbest post I have read and the only thing it accomplished was making everyone else dumber for reading such an idiotic comment.

How dumb are you for posting this? The post i wrote is true. soccer IS boring, and nobody I know watches the sport or even cares about it for that matter.A comment is dumb when it makes no sense. The reason soccer is not popular in this great country is because we have the greatest sports in the world here, Baseball and Football. The USA Sports fan demands excellence from sports along with excitement something Soccer does NOT bring to the table. Most of the great athletes of the world play here in this country either playing Baseball,Football,Basketball,Hockey or Golf. Soccer will never be a major sport in this country because it's extremely BORING.
Now stop embarassing yourself and drop it.