Would this work??????????? - Page 2

Cooleyvol · 01-04-2004, 01:15 PM

I've never seen a league charter that stated that you shouldnt cheat, change ratings, or take advantage of loopholes in the game.

jmaness84 · 01-04-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kq76
Does this mean what I think it means? Because if it does, I think we may have to talk.

This statement was about trying to win not cheat. In my leagues I don't try to win as much as I would in my other online leagues.

IatricSB · 01-04-2004, 01:19 PM

If the other owners are doing it and it is tolerated, then that's one thing. But in your post you said "especially if" other owners are doing it making it sound like you might even if they aren't. Your first statement was that if you see and opening you run through it. Whether others are doing it seemed an afterthought although it would increase the odds you'd do it. Just my interpretation of what you wrote.

Cooleyvol · 01-04-2004, 01:23 PM

^^^accurate description.

jmaness84 · 01-04-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Your first statement was that if you see and opening you run through it.

Nope it was "Could be both" I see all of your points and you guys are right. I am sorry. I have never done any of the above mentioned loopholes in an online league (Except for once and other owners were doing it)

clarnzz · 01-04-2004, 01:41 PM

I tend to think it falls on the league to create rules to eliminate loopholes, I don't think anyone operating under the parameters of the league should be treated like this. Now I know league charters don't provide some specifics like owning two teams or editing players, but those seem to be common sense. I think the thing brought up in this thread is somewhat a grey area. Not much differant than people signing players to huge one year deal in free agency and then extending them for 20% of that the next year, that's also taking advantage of game logic. I think relying on every individual owner to be able to discern what is approriate and what isn't in a given situation is asking too much as if they follow what they think is right, another owner may not see it the same way and the owner trying to be noble will be putting themselves at a disadvantage.

wireman · 01-04-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

originally posted by clarnzz:
tend to think it falls on the league to create rules to eliminate loopholes, I don't think anyone operating under the parameters of the league should be treated like this. Now I know league charters don't provide some specifics like owning two teams or editing players, but those seem to be common sense. I think the thing brought up in this thread is somewhat a grey area. Not much differant than people signing players to huge one year deal in free agency and then extending them for 20% of that the next year, that's also taking advantage of game logic. I think relying on every individual owner to be able to discern what is approriate and what isn't in a given situation is asking too much as if they follow what they think is right, another owner may not see it the same way and the owner trying to be noble will be putting themselves at a disadvantage.

People pretty much know when they're massaging the game engine or exploiting loopholes in the league rules to their advantage. And in my experience, most people who look for a sneaky edge in "gray areas" will do absolutely anything they can get away with.

If I'm in a league in which "everybody's doing it" or cutting ethical corners is tolerated, I get out of the league. That's just my preference, I guess.

My saying this is not a knock on jmaness84, who seems to have been a stand-up guy about this whole thing since the comments people have taken exception to.

If he were a real cheater, he probably would have kept quiet about it in the first place

Cooleyvol · 01-04-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clarnzz
I think the thing brought up in this thread is somewhat a grey area. Not much differant than people signing players to huge one year deal in free agency and then extending them for 20% of that the next year, that's also taking advantage of game logic.

Clarnzz,

If you honestly believe that the example you have given is equal to the original topic of this thread, then you need to check yourself. They are not even close to being the same thing. Taking advantage of AI is one thing, but the topic of this thread is something totally different.

chrisj · 01-04-2004, 02:21 PM

Huh? I see it as the same thing... both are taking advantage of loopholes in the logic of the AI...

Cooleyvol · 01-04-2004, 02:27 PM

"and change the guys position to DH for spring training"

I hardly call that a loophole OR taking advantage of the AI.

**EDIT for spelling of loophole

chrisj · 01-04-2004, 02:35 PM

It sure is taking advantage of the AI. The AI should know that if a player is at "0" for his defensive abilities in spring training, then they should *all* go down. I thought it did that already anyways...

Cooleyvol · 01-04-2004, 02:46 PM

Changing of a player's postion is a bit more than taking advantage of the AI, IMO, but I'm going to leave this alone as it neither matters to me (I have no dealings with jmaness in online leagues) nor warrants discussion on my part anymore.

clarnzz · 01-04-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
Clarnzz,

If you honestly believe that the example you have given is equal to the original topic of this thread, then you need to check yourself. They are not even close to being the same thing. Taking advantage of AI is one thing, but the topic of this thread is something totally different.

Personally I see it as worse, I think spring training gains are almost non-existant regardless of strategy whereas signing a player to a 1 year deal, knowing you plan to extend him for 5 years at a fraction of his value offers much more advantage, especially in a cap league.

clarnzz · 01-04-2004, 03:09 PM

Sorry for double post.

I don't want to degrade to arguing specific issue, my point is just more that alot of people see things quite differantly and think the league should try to close loopholes to avoid such problems.

My advice would of been to bring up the loophole to the commisioner and see if he wanted to address it, if he didn't, I don't see why doing it would be a problem.

I do agree though that what was brought up in this thread is taking advantage of the AI and not something I would want to see going on in a league I was a part of. I just think when it comes to issues like this they need to be addressed rather than just expecting people do what you think is right.

IatricSB · 01-04-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clarnzz
...signing a player to a 1 year deal, knowing you plan to extend him for 5 years at a fraction of his value...

I didn't think this was possible any more because of one of the patches. In one league I'm in, I gave a pitcher 1 yr for 20 mil. He wouldn't take less than 20 mil in the contract negotiations and yet in free agency took 15 mil by another team.

clarnzz · 01-04-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IatricSB
I didn't think this was possible any more because of one of the patches. In one league I'm in, I gave a pitcher 1 yr for 20 mil. He wouldn't take less than 20 mil in the contract negotiations and yet in free agency took 15 mil by another team.

Weird, we had a player choose a 1 year, 14 million dollar deal over a 12 million x 4, and then sign a 3.5 million per year, 5 year extension. That was on 5.12 though, not sure if something has been switched since then, I hope it has.

I also thought the switching to DH exploit was gone because the game would hit all their defensive positions rather than just the primary, but we don't have manual spring training changes so I don't know.

Aussie Mark · 01-04-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clarnzz
I also thought the switching to DH exploit was gone because the game would hit all their defensive positions rather than just the primary.

Yes, as I mentioned on page 1 of this thread, this exploit was closed, 2 or 3 patches ago. If you change someone to DH, zero out their defensive points, and run ST, their other defensive positions will take hits.

clarnzz · 01-04-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Mark
Yes, as I mentioned on page 1 of this thread, this exploit was closed, 2 or 3 patches ago. If you change someone to DH, zero out their defensive points, and run ST, their other defensive positions will take hits.

Then I guess the rest of us made a simple answer complicated.

Would this work?
No

neef · 01-04-2004, 07:16 PM

Well, I'm satisfied with jmaness84's reply. He's fine in my book now, there are no hard feelings, and I'm not worried about him cheating. Thanks for being cool and fixing the problem.

crackpott · 01-04-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IatricSB
I didn't think this was possible any more because of one of the patches. In one league I'm in, I gave a pitcher 1 yr for 20 mil. He wouldn't take less than 20 mil in the contract negotiations and yet in free agency took 15 mil by another team.

Sure that wasn't a fluke? I'd love for players who are in their prime and haven't suffered a talent drop to refuse to take less than they're making, but I saw it a lot in extentions for my league.

Seems like in real life they'd say "I haven't gotten any worse and I got 20M in FA last year, why would I sign for 8M per year now?"

01-04-2004, 01:19 PM	#23
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	If the other owners are doing it and it is tolerated, then that's one thing. But in your post you said "especially if" other owners are doing it making it sound like you might even if they aren't. Your first statement was that if you see and opening you run through it. Whether others are doing it seemed an afterthought although it would increase the odds you'd do it. Just my interpretation of what you wrote. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

01-04-2004, 02:21 PM	#29
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	Huh? I see it as the same thing... both are taking advantage of loopholes in the logic of the AI... __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

01-04-2004, 02:35 PM	#31
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	It sure is taking advantage of the AI. The AI should know that if a player is at "0" for his defensive abilities in spring training, then they should all go down. I thought it did that already anyways... __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

01-04-2004, 03:09 PM	#34
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	Sorry for double post. I don't want to degrade to arguing specific issue, my point is just more that alot of people see things quite differantly and think the league should try to close loopholes to avoid such problems. My advice would of been to bring up the loophole to the commisioner and see if he wanted to address it, if he didn't, I don't see why doing it would be a problem. I do agree though that what was brought up in this thread is taking advantage of the AI and not something I would want to see going on in a league I was a part of. I just think when it comes to issues like this they need to be addressed rather than just expecting people do what you think is right. Last edited by clarnzz; 01-04-2004 at 03:12 PM.

01-04-2004, 01:15 PM	#21
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	I've never seen a league charter that stated that you shouldnt cheat, change ratings, or take advantage of loopholes in the game.

01-04-2004, 01:23 PM	#24
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	^^^accurate description.

01-04-2004, 01:41 PM	#26
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	I tend to think it falls on the league to create rules to eliminate loopholes, I don't think anyone operating under the parameters of the league should be treated like this. Now I know league charters don't provide some specifics like owning two teams or editing players, but those seem to be common sense. I think the thing brought up in this thread is somewhat a grey area. Not much differant than people signing players to huge one year deal in free agency and then extending them for 20% of that the next year, that's also taking advantage of game logic. I think relying on every individual owner to be able to discern what is approriate and what isn't in a given situation is asking too much as if they follow what they think is right, another owner may not see it the same way and the owner trying to be noble will be putting themselves at a disadvantage.

01-04-2004, 02:27 PM	#30
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	"and change the guys position to DH for spring training" I hardly call that a loophole OR taking advantage of the AI. **EDIT for spelling of loophole

01-04-2004, 02:46 PM	#32
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Changing of a player's postion is a bit more than taking advantage of the AI, IMO, but I'm going to leave this alone as it neither matters to me (I have no dealings with jmaness in online leagues) nor warrants discussion on my part anymore.

01-04-2004, 07:16 PM	#39
neef Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 41	Well, I'm satisfied with jmaness84's reply. He's fine in my book now, there are no hard feelings, and I'm not worried about him cheating. Thanks for being cool and fixing the problem.