Idea for a new league, not sure if it has been done or not. Civil War themed league. - Page 2

Jestre · 12-20-2003, 04:27 PM

There are many historians and sociologists that believe blacks would be much better off today if there had been no Civil War and they had been emancipated and peacefully brought into the American Society. It was losing the war that brought about the KKK and gave rise to the guilt and hatred from many southerners. If the South had set the slaves free on their own terms it is quite possible there would have not been so much animosity. To say that there would still be slavery today without the Civil War is just plain ignorant or just pandering to the 'liberal' 'blame america' ideology. What Lincoln did was the right thing, had Lincoln not won the election the slaves would still have been set free within the foreseeable future.

Cooleyvol · 12-20-2003, 04:42 PM

Eric,
You're not really hinting that if the Civil War hadnt been fought that blacks would STILL be slaves are you? I hope not, because its just not possible.

I think you're really over dramatizing things and I'm not really sure I see where you're going with this.

The guy made a suggestion for a league. Yes, he made a mis-statement, but no worse than a couple that you have made as well.

I agree with the Jestre on this.

Jeremy Weimer · 12-20-2003, 05:11 PM

Instead of wasting my time and continuing to argue with you I'm just gonna say read what Jestre wrote. Because that's pretty much what I'd end up saying anyways. I'm sick of wasting my time on this argument when it's very apparent you're blinded by your views and opinions.

magnet · 12-21-2003, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbslcardinals

Before 1860: slaves.
1860-1865: Civil War.
1865: 13th, 14th, 15th ammendments to the Constitution, abolishing slavery and guaranteeing equal rights for all Americans regardless of race, gender, or creed.
Present: no slaves.

thought id brush you up on your history a bit:
Jan. 1, 1863: emancipation proclamation (no slaves)
Apr. 9, 1865: Lee surrenders (already no slaves)

i know im beating a dead horse, but come on now

The Professor · 12-21-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

There are many historians and sociologists that believe blacks would be much better off today if there had been no Civil War and they had been emancipated and peacefully brought into the American Society. It was losing the war that brought about the KKK and gave rise to the guilt and hatred from many southerners. If the South had set the slaves free on their own terms it is quite possible there would have not been so much animosity. To say that there would still be slavery today without the Civil War is just plain ignorant or just pandering to the 'liberal' 'blame america' ideology. What Lincoln did was the right thing, had Lincoln not won the election the slaves would still have been set free within the foreseeable future.

This is Lost Cause mythology...I don't know of many worthwhile historians who truly 100% believe this. After the war it became the popular hindsight reference to say: "We would have slowly emancipated them eventually..."

You know...maybe so? I won't write this off completely. However, I don't think there is anything but conjecture that actually supports the "gradual emancipation" belief. I file it under the "mostly BS" category and subscribe to the belief that war was ultimately inevitable - and necessary to end slavery. Southern revisionists would like to have people believe that the war was bad for blacks, that things would have been better done their way, etc.etc.etc....yeah, and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn. For sale. Cheap.

The Professor · 12-21-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Eric,
You're not really hinting that if the Civil War hadnt been fought that blacks would STILL be slaves are you? I hope not, because its just not possible.

I think you're really over dramatizing things and I'm not really sure I see where you're going with this.

The guy made a suggestion for a league. Yes, he made a mis-statement, but no worse than a couple that you have made as well.

I agree with the Jestre on this.

While I've said my piece about the whole slave thing...I agree with Mark that this is a bit overdramatized. I apologize for my comments (meant in the most friendly way, I hope Jeremy - and Jestre -know) in adding to it. When I said the Civil War still affected people, this is exactly what I meant!

-- people can debate issues like right/wrong, war or gradual emancipation until the cows come home...and they often do. I think that discussion is better for OT, however.

Best

Jestre · 12-21-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Professor
This is Lost Cause mythology...I don't know of many worthwhile historians who truly 100% believe this. After the war it became the popular hindsight reference to say: "We would have slowly emancipated them eventually..."

You know...maybe so? I won't write this off completely. However, I don't think there is anything but conjecture that actually supports the "gradual emancipation" belief. I file it under the "mostly BS" category and subscribe to the belief that war was ultimately inevitable - and necessary to end slavery. Southern revisionists would like to have people believe that the war was bad for blacks, that things would have been better done their way, etc.etc.etc....yeah, and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn. For sale. Cheap.

I started to respond to this post but then decided that this was not the place to get into a heated political, ideological debate, besides it's almost Christmas. Merry Christmas to all, even those ACLU'ers amongst you.

sixfour210 · 12-21-2003, 07:53 PM

1. I'm an african-american
2. The idea for the league wasn't bad
3. The Civil War was fought and ended.
4. What's done is done and whoever was effected, we will just have to deal with it.
5. I see no problem with someone coming up with a league like this as long as there's no blatant racial undertone with the league.

12-20-2003, 04:27 PM	#21
Jestre All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North Smithfield,Ri,USA Posts: 612	There are many historians and sociologists that believe blacks would be much better off today if there had been no Civil War and they had been emancipated and peacefully brought into the American Society. It was losing the war that brought about the KKK and gave rise to the guilt and hatred from many southerners. If the South had set the slaves free on their own terms it is quite possible there would have not been so much animosity. To say that there would still be slavery today without the Civil War is just plain ignorant or just pandering to the 'liberal' 'blame america' ideology. What Lincoln did was the right thing, had Lincoln not won the election the slaves would still have been set free within the foreseeable future. __________________ My eyes perceive the present, but my roots are imbedded deeply in the grandeur of the past. "Chief Meyers"

12-21-2003, 07:53 PM	#28
sixfour210 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,227	1. I'm an african-american 2. The idea for the league wasn't bad 3. The Civil War was fought and ended. 4. What's done is done and whoever was effected, we will just have to deal with it. 5. I see no problem with someone coming up with a league like this as long as there's no blatant racial undertone with the league. __________________

12-20-2003, 04:42 PM	#22
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Eric, You're not really hinting that if the Civil War hadnt been fought that blacks would STILL be slaves are you? I hope not, because its just not possible. I think you're really over dramatizing things and I'm not really sure I see where you're going with this. The guy made a suggestion for a league. Yes, he made a mis-statement, but no worse than a couple that you have made as well. I agree with the Jestre on this.

12-20-2003, 05:11 PM	#23
Jeremy Weimer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,411	Instead of wasting my time and continuing to argue with you I'm just gonna say read what Jestre wrote. Because that's pretty much what I'd end up saying anyways. I'm sick of wasting my time on this argument when it's very apparent you're blinded by your views and opinions.