4 man Rotation, shall i try? - Page 2

capn insano · 06-22-2003, 03:31 PM

ok lets think about this ......162 games in a season 4 man rotation 162/4 equals roughly 40 starts per pitcher seems like an awful lot for this era of baseball.
Also I need to comment on who it was that said this game doen not try to mirror MLB did you not realize there was an era calculator? that says it all.

couriers · 06-22-2003, 03:41 PM

ok lets think about this ......162 games in a season 4 man rotation 162/4 equals roughly 40 starts per pitcher seems like an awful lot for this era of baseball.

Not really an awful lot when you consider that with a 5 man rotation they will only get about 8 less games to start than that. Eight does not equal an awful lot.

Also I need to comment on who it was that said this game doen not try to mirror MLB did you not realize there was an era calculator? that says it all.

Doesn't say a damn thing to me. Would you please explain to me how that one little statement says it all. Thanks.

capn insano · 06-22-2003, 03:46 PM

lol dont get your panties in a bunch there couriers if you dont feel this game try's to mirror MLB well we all have our opinion there's other places then this thread to argue it.

capn insano · 06-22-2003, 03:48 PM

o yeah i forgot a little trivia who was the last pitcher in MLB to start 40 games?

couriers · 06-22-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn insano
lol dont get your panties in a bunch there couriers if you dont feel this game try's to mirror MLB well we all have our opinion there's other places then this thread to argue it.

I made a simple statement based on my personal opinions and asked you a legitimate question about clarifying your position and this is how you respond?

Nice.

endgame · 06-22-2003, 04:03 PM

Does the AI ever elect a 4 man rotation, or do we have to get in there and make such an adjustment ourselves? Personally, I don't think I've ever seen an opposing AI team with a 4 man.

AsTrOFaN · 06-22-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn insano
ok lets think about this ......162 games in a season 4 man rotation 162/4 equals roughly 40 starts per pitcher seems like an awful lot for this era of baseball.
Also I need to comment on who it was that said this game doen not try to mirror MLB did you not realize there was an era calculator? that says it all.

Actually, most 1-4 pitchers get 34-37 starts a season (due to off days). Its not really that many more for a pitcher.

asamford · 06-22-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by couriers
I made a simple statement based on my personal opinions and asked you a legitimate question about clarifying your position and this is how you respond?

Nice.

would you expect any less from Big Bambino?

Dwolfson20 · 06-22-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn insano
lol dont get your panties in a bunch there couriers if you dont feel this game try's to mirror MLB well we all have our opinion there's other places then this thread to argue it.

A) They invented punctuation for a reason.

B) You're right; the OOTP vs. MLB discussion belongs in another thread, so I would suggest taking it there.

As for the 4-man rotation, I started using it in my online leagues recently, despite having one guy who is a D-duration, but that doesn't seem to matter too much. He has around 65% quality starts and has gone 8+ IP multiple times. The key is to have plenty of talent and endurance in the bullpen, since the starters will be coming out of the game slightly sooner than in a 5-man rotation.

As for pitch counts, I see no reason to use them, because the in-game AI almost always removes pitchers as soon as they become tired. So you don't have to worry about guys pitching too long, which is the only purpose of setting a pitch count for them.

Also, as an added benefit of the four-man rotation, it saves the team an extra roster spot and the money that would need to be paid to another starting pitcher. Instead, you can use that spot for a cheaper reliever, or an extra bat on the bench.

In all honesty, I am surprised that the A's have not tinkered with a four-man rotation yet, especially since they have recently trotted out such forgettable fifth starters as Eric Hiljus and John Halama. It's possible that they have studied it and found it to be inefficient after all, but that would not seem to be the case from the information I've seen, so who knows?

Dwolfson20 · 06-22-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by endgame
Does the AI ever elect a 4 man rotation, or do we have to get in there and make such an adjustment ourselves? Personally, I don't think I've ever seen an opposing AI team with a 4 man.

I have never seen it use one either; perhaps this is something that can be changed in a future patch/version of the game.

Also, Astrofan is correct. In a five-man rotation, barring injury, a pitcher should make 35 or 36 starts in a season. In my experience with the four-man, I've seen pitchers consistently make 40 or 41 starts in a season.

endgame · 06-22-2003, 04:11 PM

Any data on whether % of quality starts decreases with the addtl games?

Dwolfson20 · 06-22-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by endgame
Any data on whether % of quality starts decreases with the addtl games?

I haven't done a study on this, but logically it seems like quality start percentage would not decrease. The only way it would is if a) a pitcher was consistently getting pulled without reaching the required innings to get a quality start AND would not have in a five-man rotation, or b) the pitcher was frequently pitching tired. I can't see 'a' happening often enough to be statistically significant, and even if it did, it would only likely apply to D and E durations. And the AI prevents 'b' from happening, so that shouldn't have an effect either.

NYM Jason Phillips 23 · 06-22-2003, 04:32 PM

thanks for your imput guys,ill be going with a 4 man rotation, should work with Oakland.

Fred · 06-22-2003, 08:43 PM

I have used a 3 man rotation in the modern era and it works great for me, all of my pitchers (unless they are having a bad start) have gone at least 6.2 innings in their last 10 games, and this has worked for me very well, it saves money by not having to get an extra 2 starters and it frees up enough money to make the 3 starters very good. The one thing that you need is to have 2-3 decent relivers with a stamina of b or better. by the way the duration of my 3 starters is A, C and c and I varely have a spot starter in the rotation.

Alan T · 06-23-2003, 08:24 AM

Fred, it sounds like you have had a little more success with the three man rotation than I have. My starters didn't quite make it that long in most games. It probably has to do alot with throwing as few pitches as you can for outs too. (ie: if you try this, try it with guys with good duration, A's, B's, and really good at avoiding walks.)

Interesting information though, I had written off my own tests after the first few failures.

Bluenoser · 06-23-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by endgame
Does the AI ever elect a 4 man rotation, or do we have to get in there and make such an adjustment ourselves? Personally, I don't think I've ever seen an opposing AI team with a 4 man.

Actually you can "force" the AI to use a 4 man rotation by editing the Era. I have done this previously with the Modern Era 1980. Simply edit the Era to 4 man rotations, then hit "Run computer manager on all teams". AI teams will then be set with 4 man rotations.

Of course this will apply to every AI run team. They'll all have 4 man rotations. No way to make it random that I know of.

ucclark · 06-23-2003, 09:45 AM

I started using a 4-man rotation in my new solo league. Inj my first year, my #3 starter, who was rated E in Endurance (and was actually a MR I picked up late in the draft) went 19-7 with a 2.71 ERA, leading the league in wins and winning the Cy Young Award. The team was in a 5 man rotation in April, than in a 4 man for the rest of the year. So, having "E" endurance didn't seem to hurt him.

However, the next season, he started 1-4 with a 5.71 ERA, went on the DL for 9 weeks, wound up in the minors for a while, and finished the season with just 4 wins. Whether this was a product of the 4 man rotation, or just the fact that he was a mediocre pitcher, I'm not sure. I'll have to see what happens in year 3.

06-22-2003, 04:03 PM	#26
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Does the AI ever elect a 4 man rotation, or do we have to get in there and make such an adjustment ourselves? Personally, I don't think I've ever seen an opposing AI team with a 4 man. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

06-22-2003, 04:11 PM	#31
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Any data on whether % of quality starts decreases with the addtl games? __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

06-22-2003, 04:32 PM	#33
NYM Jason Phillips 23 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 58	thanks for your imput guys,ill be going with a 4 man rotation, should work with Oakland. __________________ HOCKEY RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Ny Ranger fan)

06-22-2003, 03:31 PM	#21
capn insano Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: alabama Posts: 9	ok lets think about this ......162 games in a season 4 man rotation 162/4 equals roughly 40 starts per pitcher seems like an awful lot for this era of baseball. Also I need to comment on who it was that said this game doen not try to mirror MLB did you not realize there was an era calculator? that says it all.

06-22-2003, 03:41 PM	#22
couriers All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Fla Posts: 932	ok lets think about this ......162 games in a season 4 man rotation 162/4 equals roughly 40 starts per pitcher seems like an awful lot for this era of baseball. Not really an awful lot when you consider that with a 5 man rotation they will only get about 8 less games to start than that. Eight does not equal an awful lot. Also I need to comment on who it was that said this game doen not try to mirror MLB did you not realize there was an era calculator? that says it all. Doesn't say a damn thing to me. Would you please explain to me how that one little statement says it all. Thanks.

06-22-2003, 03:46 PM	#23
capn insano Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: alabama Posts: 9	lol dont get your panties in a bunch there couriers if you dont feel this game try's to mirror MLB well we all have our opinion there's other places then this thread to argue it.

06-22-2003, 03:48 PM	#24
capn insano Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: alabama Posts: 9	o yeah i forgot a little trivia who was the last pitcher in MLB to start 40 games?

06-22-2003, 08:43 PM	#34
Fred Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 67	I have used a 3 man rotation in the modern era and it works great for me, all of my pitchers (unless they are having a bad start) have gone at least 6.2 innings in their last 10 games, and this has worked for me very well, it saves money by not having to get an extra 2 starters and it frees up enough money to make the 3 starters very good. The one thing that you need is to have 2-3 decent relivers with a stamina of b or better. by the way the duration of my 3 starters is A, C and c and I varely have a spot starter in the rotation.

06-23-2003, 08:24 AM	#35
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	Fred, it sounds like you have had a little more success with the three man rotation than I have. My starters didn't quite make it that long in most games. It probably has to do alot with throwing as few pitches as you can for outs too. (ie: if you try this, try it with guys with good duration, A's, B's, and really good at avoiding walks.) Interesting information though, I had written off my own tests after the first few failures.

06-23-2003, 09:45 AM	#37
ucclark Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 220	I started using a 4-man rotation in my new solo league. Inj my first year, my #3 starter, who was rated E in Endurance (and was actually a MR I picked up late in the draft) went 19-7 with a 2.71 ERA, leading the league in wins and winning the Cy Young Award. The team was in a 5 man rotation in April, than in a 4 man for the rest of the year. So, having "E" endurance didn't seem to hurt him. However, the next season, he started 1-4 with a 5.71 ERA, went on the DL for 9 weeks, wound up in the minors for a while, and finished the season with just 4 wins. Whether this was a product of the 4 man rotation, or just the fact that he was a mediocre pitcher, I'm not sure. I'll have to see what happens in year 3.