Injuries are out of control

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by locuspc

Complaining about too many injuries is useless unless you say how many injuries you're seeing and how many you think there should be. It's theoretically possible for there to be too many injuries, but it's extremely common for casual fans to underestimate how many injuries there actually are in baseball. You should proactively work to reassure the reader you are not one of these.

I can say I'm not seeing too many injuries in my save. I'm getting about a dozen injuries a season, not counting short term "dinged up" type injuries. Many seasons I don't get any major season-long injuries at all.

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

The game now has 9 injury settings ranging from none to maximal. This was done intentionally. If you don't like your current injury setting couldn't you just move the setting down a level or two? If someone was making the claim that their injury setting was on extremely low and they were still seeing injuries frequencies equivalent to current MLB rates then I would think it is maybe a bug. That doesn't seem to be the case though. Are players locking onto a certain injury setting out of nostalgia? Maybe I'm missing something here?

Originally Posted by Reed

These posts are useless IMO if you don’t include your settings for short and long term injuries and how many you are seeing. Saying “a lot” is not informative.

Absolutely agree.

[snepp]

I experience lower than real life injury volumes when using the "normal" frequency setting, which matches the description given.

Turn the injury frequency down in the settings if you want fewer? *shrug*

[brigmcneil]

I randomly selected 5 IRL MLB teams to see how many they have on the IL right now - 10, 8, 5, 3, and 10... 1 1/2 weeks into the season.

When I found an annual list of MLB IL stints, the only way I could get it close was to set injuries to the max level. Anything less than that yielded 1/2 as many as IRL at best, which, by my interpretation, would be less realistic.

Just because we don't like the reality of injury frequency does not mean they are not realistic. Fortunately, the game allows us to drastically reduce them with all of the customization.

The defaults should be as close to reality as possible IMO, but I am just one player.

[LloydLungs]

I wish there were a way to have injuries occur at a real-life MLB realistic rate without everybody becoming "Wrecked."

Truthfully, while there is merit to players having an injury proneness rating (that should probably gradually increase with age in general), I'm not sure I love that this dynamically changes for everyone based on injuries they suffer.

I feel like I HAVE to play with injuries a little less than realistic (for this version I'm going to try "Very High" minor injuries and "High" major) because of the dynamic injury proneness rating.

In general though it's true, most gamers don't understand how bad injuries are in real life, and while it can get a little tedious if you have a lot of them, I generally enjoy the roster juggling needed to work around them.

[BaseballATeam]

Originally Posted by snepp

I experience lower than real life injury volumes when using the "normal" frequency setting, which matches the description given.

Turn the injury frequency down in the settings if you want fewer? *shrug*

Seconded. This is not a problem, simply an adjustment to the new "normal." I've had to turn up injuries in previous versions to get an accurate experience. Now, I can use the default settings.

[BaseballATeam]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I wish there were a way to have injuries occur at a real-life MLB realistic rate without everybody becoming "Wrecked."

Truthfully, while there is merit to players having an injury proneness rating (that should probably gradually increase with age in general), I'm not sure I love that this dynamically changes for everyone based on injuries they suffer.

I feel like I HAVE to play with injuries a little less than realistic (for this version I'm going to try "Very High" minor injuries and "High" major) because of the dynamic injury proneness rating.

In general though it's true, most gamers don't understand how bad injuries are in real life, and while it can get a little tedious if you have a lot of them, I generally enjoy the roster juggling needed to work around them.

THIS is the problem with injuries in OOTP. irl, you have guys like Tarik Skubal go out as a 50 and come back as an 80. Yes, some guys get wrecked, but most pitchers return just fine. The majority of pitchers peak in their early 30s (or have a second peak) after experiencing at least one major injury. Position players (Evan Longoria and Brandon Nimmo come to mind) get labeled as Injury Prone in their 20s, then reel off a handful of 650 PA seasons in a row.

OOTP is too pessimistic about the effect of injuries on career trajectory. On average, they're bad. But we should see a wider range of outcomes.

Perhaps the injury frequency setting can be used to affect the "wrecked" frequency. As in, the higher the injury frequency, the fewer wrecked designations.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by BaseballATeam

THIS is the problem with injuries in OOTP. irl, you have guys like Tarik Skubal go out as a 50 and come back as an 80. Yes, some guys get wrecked, but most pitchers return just fine. The majority of pitchers peak in their early 30s (or have a second peak) after experiencing at least one major injury. Position players (Evan Longoria and Brandon Nimmo come to mind) get labeled as Injury Prone in their 20s, then reel off a handful of 650 PA seasons in a row.

OOTP is too pessimistic about the effect of injuries on career trajectory. On average, they're bad. But we should see a wider range of outcomes.

Perhaps the injury frequency setting can be used to affect the "wrecked" frequency. As in, the higher the injury frequency, the fewer wrecked designations.

This though, is a different argument altogether from what the original complaint was. To your credit here, I think what you are bringing up has merit for it's own conversation. Some place where we can gather data. You mentioned Skubal. Is he an outlier? Do we know that OOTP doesn't have similar examples? I don't know these answers but that would be a interesting thread to get involved in.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I wish there were a way to have injuries occur at a real-life MLB realistic rate without everybody becoming "Wrecked."

Truthfully, while there is merit to players having an injury proneness rating (that should probably gradually increase with age in general), I'm not sure I love that this dynamically changes for everyone based on injuries they suffer.

I feel like I HAVE to play with injuries a little less than realistic (for this version I'm going to try "Very High" minor injuries and "High" major) because of the dynamic injury proneness rating.

In general though it's true, most gamers don't understand how bad injuries are in real life, and while it can get a little tedious if you have a lot of them, I generally enjoy the roster juggling needed to work around them.

I did look at wrecked players along with other injury levels a few versions ago. I'll post a link to a post that shows things like number of wrecked players and fragile players and PA or IP of some of these players. All data I posted came from a "high realistic modern day" injury setting, which at the time I believe was the highest overall setting.

Here is the link
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...8&postcount=31

and a small quote for those that don't want to click the link. Perhaps your curiosity will be raised enough you'll want to read more.

Fragile batters from my last season.
164 total
156 had at least 100 PA
with 86 of those having at least 400 PA

Wrecked batters
78 total
73 had at least 100 PA
with 33 of those having at least 400 PA
1 had less than 50 PA

Starting Pitchers. These are only current MLB SP though the screen has minors and FA included.

SP that are wrecked
12 total
10 of those threw at least 100 innings.
The 2 that didn't throw 100 went 77.1 and 56.2

I'll also post a link to the thread which has a good discussion going back and forth. It was titled "Injury Rating Creep" and I believer speaks to your concern about a "dynamic change" model. I think it's interesting reading. If you look it over you'll have to decide for yourself.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...hlight=wrecked

Before I participated in that thread I was a "get rid of the wrecked guy as soon as I can" player. After the thread I became a little more selective and patient before doing anything. Take from it what you will.

[sdw1000]

You KNOW....you can turn them down or OFF. I have rare injuries turned on mine.

[BaseballATeam]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

This though, is a different argument altogether from what the original complaint was. To your credit here, I think what you are bringing up has merit for it's own conversation. Some place where we can gather data. You mentioned Skubal. Is he an outlier? Do we know that OOTP doesn't have similar examples? I don't know these answers but that would be a interesting thread to get involved in.

Skubal is an outlier for the extent of his improvement, but it's not at all unusual for pitchers to return from major injury with a couple extra ticks on the gun or +10 command. It is not the AVERAGE outcome, but I'd estimate a third of pitchers come back half a grade better than they started. The act of recovery is kind of like going to the dev lab.

Actually...there's an idea. Any arm injury over X months runs a mini-dev lab experience with like 40% struggling outcomes (losses to one or multiple traits/pitches, 30% frustrated (i.e. no change), and 25% positive (+5 to a grade or pitch), and 5% excel (big improvement to a random trait/pitch).

That would take quite a bit of tinkering to get right but would feel WAY more realistic than the WRECKED arms system.

[hernandezhof]

I finished my first season play through and lost NINE pitchers to season ending injuries. No AI team lost more than one. Just really bad luck?

[BaseballATeam]

Probably. I had a similar experience in 2026 but then only had a couple guys out in 2027 (one of whom entered the season WRECKED).

[SoxFan123]

Originally Posted by sdw1000

You KNOW....you can turn them down or OFF. I have rare injuries turned on mine.

The problem isnt injuries, it is that the changing of their injury ratings is out of control.

Here is a reddit post where someone else has seen the issue

https://www.reddit.com/r/OOTP/commen...rs_into_a_sim/

[BaseballATeam]

That reddit post skirts around an actual problem/bug without drawing attention to it. Grades are supposed to be relative to the league/player pool. So, the number of pitchers at each grade really shouldn't change much year to year even if the quality of those pitchers does meander more.

Of course, OOTP adds a layer of confusion by not including velocity in their stuff grades. Stuff has come to mean something fairly specific in the analytics community, and OOTP's definition (basically, stuff=whiffs) is well out of touch with that. You can occasionally find 80 stuff grade pitchers with low strikeout rates because they throw 84, which is weird.

[SoxFan123]

Originally Posted by BaseballATeam

That reddit post skirts around an actual problem/bug without drawing attention to it. Grades are supposed to be relative to the league/player pool. So, the number of pitchers at each grade really shouldn't change much year to year even if the quality of those pitchers does meander more.

Of course, OOTP adds a layer of confusion by not including velocity in their stuff grades. Stuff has come to mean something fairly specific in the analytics community, and OOTP's definition (basically, stuff=whiffs) is well out of touch with that. You can occasionally find 80 stuff grade pitchers with low strikeout rates because they throw 84, which is weird.

I’m referring to the posters comments on injuries

[Sweed]

Nm.

[Coach43]

The default settings have injuries set to "high" so that's what I'm playing and it is becoming very frustrating. I'm in 2038 and year in and year out I'm losing half of my rotation and starting lineup to the 60 day DL. My goal is realism and other than the occasional unlucky season IRL, long-term injuries shouldn't be this frequent. I have the highest rated trainer on my team.

If I ever start a new game, I'll just lower the injury setting one notch. I'm not sure why it defaults to "high" on normal difficulty but one injury setting lower is the OOTP default so I should have chose that when I started.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Coach43

The default settings have injuries set to "high" so that's what I'm playing and it is becoming very frustrating. I'm in 2038 and year in and year out I'm losing half of my rotation and starting lineup to the 60 day DL. My goal is realism and other than the occasional unlucky season IRL, long-term injuries shouldn't be this frequent. I have the highest rated trainer on my team.

If I ever start a new game, I'll just lower the injury setting one notch. I'm not sure why it defaults to "high" on normal difficulty but one injury setting lower is the OOTP default so I should have chose that when I started.

Are you in challenge mode? Does that mean you can't change it in your current game?


Before this year there was only one level. "Normal" difficulty is default and meant to play a realistic game of baseball.

I'd say for a realistic simulation the game should start at "high realistic". I'd also argue it shouldn't be called "high realistic", it should just be " default realistic" to make it clear you are getting realistic injuries in a game that tries to simulate reality. Then have levels above and below for those that want less or more.

I import my game and haven't started a new game in years. The first thing I do at import is go through all settings (the same as I would for a new game) to be sure nothing changed and I have what I want. Most seasons everything comes in untouched, but there have been occasions where import did not get a setting right.

[malor]

Originally Posted by Coach43

The default settings have injuries set to "high" so that's what I'm playing and it is becoming very frustrating. I'm in 2038 and year in and year out I'm losing half of my rotation and starting lineup to the 60 day DL. My goal is realism and other than the occasional unlucky season IRL, long-term injuries shouldn't be this frequent. I have the highest rated trainer on my team.

If I ever start a new game, I'll just lower the injury setting one notch. I'm not sure why it defaults to "high" on normal difficulty but one injury setting lower is the OOTP default so I should have chose that when I started.

You are seeing real life numbers of injuries. Just watch MLB. See Cubs 2026. 2 big relievers down, 4 minor relievers and 4 starters out (2 in the first week of season, 2 finishing injuries from last year). Injuries in MLB are really bad and will continue to get worse.

See: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/injuries/
Most teams have 8+ players on the list and it does not even include minor leagues.

[Pelican]

I play with "Short Injury Frequency" at "Low" and "Long Injury Frequency" at "Very Low". My reasoning is, I want the challenge of having to deal with occasionally losing players (need for depth on the bench and the high minors) without disrupting the flow of a season by losing too many key players. I toggle off "Delayed Injury Diagnosis" - even though it is realistic - because I can't stand the time lag and uncertainty. [I refuse to play in trading "Hard Mode" for the same reason - too much aggravating delay in getting deals done.]

That seems to work. Players generally come back strong from short injuries. I overcompensate on IL time to be careful. And I am big on minor league rehab assignments, particularly for pitchers. On my teams I rest guys who are tired (see below), especially pitchers.

In terms of susceptibility to injury, I've learned the hard way that player stamina and fatigue are a factor. I set the global Fatigue setting to "Low" playing historical seasons. Players still get tired. But I give the AI managers flexibility in setting lineups to sub in bench players when a starter is tired. [In one sim where I failed to do that, in setting "Daily Lineups", starters would play until their ratings seriously degraded, and then they got hurt.] Live and learn.

Circling back to the OP lament, I have not seen a different injury pattern in 27 with the same settings I used in 26 and earlier. Which is a good thing.