Talent Change Randomness

[Reed]

Originally Posted by David Watts

OOTP25 is different from past versions. I think 2 of the options in the wizard default to recalc only, with development disabled. One option defaults to a combo of recalc and the development engine and random debut defaults to a the combo as well.

For Random a combination of recalc/development is the default setting probably because it is “assumed” that is how most people play random. I do. Depending on how you play straight recalc or straight development may be better than combo recalc/development.
The problem with combo recalc and development both on (again I play that way) is a yo-yo affect with players like H Aaron that played very well past age 33-35. During the season development will lower their ratings because of their age but when season is over recalc will reset their ratings back up because of their real life stats.
The main reason I play combo recalc/development is that is allows players that played in 2023 (like Judge, Olson, etc.) to have a natural aging curve in my Random League. I am willing to have the yo-yo effect it has on the few players that had stellar careers past age 35 if means letting players that played in 2023 have a natural playing career in my random league. If my league random draft just went to a year like 2022, I might just play recalc or development depending on my goals and other settings.

[Brad K]

Next thing you know it will default to retire according to history yes. It's moving to a game that favors testers who want to watch and see how close they can get to historical production.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Reed

For Random a combination of recalc/development is the default setting probably because it is “assumed” that is how most people play random. I do. Depending on how you play straight recalc or straight development may be better than combo recalc/development.
The problem with combo recalc and development both on (again I play that way) is a yo-yo affect with players like H Aaron that played very well past age 33-35. During the season development will lower their ratings because of their age but when season is over recalc will reset their ratings back up because of their real life stats.
The main reason I play combo recalc/development is that is allows players that played in 2023 (like Judge, Olson, etc.) to have a natural aging curve in my Random League. I am willing to have the yo-yo effect it has on the few players that had stellar careers past age 35 if means letting players that played in 2023 have a natural playing career in my random league. If my league random draft just went to a year like 2022, I might just play recalc or development depending on my goals and other settings.

It is my perception that development allows players to play after their RL retirement while TCR changes their ratings from what recalc provides. However that leaves unexplained why players do not always get a reset to real life after a season ends.

If we start off with a recalc rating, what might be able to change that? TCR, dev, player personal characteristics, coaching quality, personal relationships with manager/coaches, team record, player's perception of his performance (talk about a potential multiplier!), attitude of other players on the team, and I'm sure there's more. Imagine most of those by chance aligning in a positive or negative way. What we have then is a player with implausible ratings.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Next thing you know it will default to retire according to history yes. It's moving to a game that favors testers who want to watch and see how close they can get to historical production.

I think the default and replay options both default to retire/miss seasons according to history.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I think the default and replay options both default to retire/miss seasons according to history.

Garlon's influence.

But then, we have a lot of human GMs with the mistaken notion that they should be able to trade for different players, change lineups, change strategy, and the game output should still match historical results.

[PSUColonel]

I think having TCR reflect reality is a god thing. This being said, and with prosepects being much more volatile than in the past, I have a question. Should prospects be valued by the AI as much? This could finally be the chance to get the AI to reflect reality in that it should consider established MLB players at any talent level to be very valuable. Highly touted prospects should still be valuable, but perhaps not as much so if they are going to have a higher probability of flaming out?

To me this seems to be the way OOTP is headed, and I think it could be a very good thing. I guess my question thought is, has the AI (trade AI, specifically) caught up with this new reality?

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by twins_34

TCR does not care if it is historic or fictional. If you are running the OOTP Development Engine (The only way TCR does anything) then you are most likely NOT using recalc. If you are using recalc, there is no point to using TCR because at the end of the year or however you have recalc setup, everything will get undone and made any TCR change, pointless.

I don't think that is true at all because the the TCR option would be DISABLED if you have RECALC on. That devs decided not to disable TCR when recalc is on so it has an effect

It is the percent of player that will can have their RATINGS change (Potential or current) It is not just potential otherwise it would not effect anyone over 29 (and the devs would have programmed a popup tooltip reminding you)

Set 1 (no change) there are no overide adjustements to game. Over under is percent of override adjustments applied to players in the game.

Maybe you want to play quasi historical where you still want all the players, but more fog of war. Picking babe ruth may not turn out to be the right move.

[thenewchuckd]

I'm ok with some variation, although can we get a bit closer to real life? From what I've seen there's way too many guys coming out of late rounds becoming superstars, few from the top rounds (compared to what I'd expect) and a big minority of internationals even making it to the big leagues.

There also seems to be a pattern of players 19 and under dropping only and a sweet spot of 20-23 for moves upward.

This is my small sample size but what I've observed.

I'd also like to see guys only getting auto-promoted from the international complex if they're ready to put up good stats in DSL.

Then there's the whole thing of players getting stuck in rookie ball forever.

I suppose it's ok if I say to myself it is a game and not meant to be close to real life. Yet that's originally why I started buying the game... And I'm actually starting to play PS5 baseball because if I'm going to play something that's not even trying to be real, I might as well feel like I'm swinging the bat.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

I don't think that is true at all because the the TCR option would be DISABLED if you have RECALC on. That devs decided not to disable TCR when recalc is on so it has an effect

No, it is you that is mistaken. TCR is tied to dev, not recalc. So if you have recalc AND dev both ON, TCR is enabled.

[prokofiev1]

Just curious if anyone's tried to counter this problem by dropping TCR to 1, and what is it like when you do that? Does it fix it, or does it create other problems? I have it down to 25 right now, but am not satisfied that it's made much of a difference.

I won't argue that it's reasonably realistic to assume that certain star prospects will drop, fair enough, but:

a) it feels like overkill and is affecting my enjoyment of the game (which was at an all time high prior to this patch). I watched a guy go from 4 1/2 stars to 2 1/2 stars potential in one month... during the off season...

b) I'm getting a sense (I'm running an historical sim at a quick pace, like a season or two per day) that it is beginning to cause a distinct lack of parity in the league because the poor teams are not being rewarded for their draft picks. The have-nots are remaining have-nots (mind you, I just had an expansion a few seasons ago, and that probably doesn't help parity either).

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by prokofiev1

Just curious if anyone's tried to counter this problem by dropping TCR to 1, and what is it like when you do that? Does it fix it, or does it create other problems? I have it down to 25 right now, but am not satisfied that it's made much of a difference.

I won't argue that it's reasonably realistic to assume that certain star prospects will drop, fair enough, but:

a) it feels like overkill and is affecting my enjoyment of the game (which was at an all time high prior to this patch). I watched a guy go from 4 1/2 stars to 2 1/2 stars potential in one month... during the off season...

b) I'm getting a sense (I'm running an historical sim at a quick pace, like a season or two per day) that it is beginning to cause a distinct lack of parity in the league because the poor teams are not being rewarded for their draft picks. The have-nots are remaining have-nots (mind you, I just had an expansion a few seasons ago, and that probably doesn't help parity either).

So with TCR off, the player will likely keep roughly the same potential rating through his career. (With TCR on, that value will drop or change).

It tends to lead to over powered players as more players don't see a potential drop or change.

[prokofiev1]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

So with TCR off, the player will likely keep roughly the same potential rating through his career. (With TCR on, that value will drop or change).

It tends to lead to over powered players as more players don't see a potential drop or change.

Thank you, that makes sense. I don't know whether this is because of the latest patch, or because I just had a league expansion, but I've seen many more 5 star prospects crop up in my amateur draft than there were before -- where once there were 2-3 per draft, there are now 6-8. I could see where overdoing it with dropping the TCR makes me end up with a league full of cyborgs and Ohtanis.

[Brad K]

fredbeene showed HERE that potential does not affect future current ratings.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by David Watts

OOTP25 is different from past versions. I think 2 of the options in the wizard default to recalc only, with development disabled. One option defaults to a combo of recalc and the development engine and random debut defaults to a the combo as well.

Default = Recalc
Replay = Recalc
Career = Development Engine (my baby that I helped setup)
Random Debut = Recalc and Dev Engine (Which no longer needs to be used together since the fix of how players retire) In Random Debut the Dev Engine was used to help retire players otherwise they would never retire. Like Judge in 1920 would play until he was 150 years old. However, since the adjustment of how players retire, you technically no longer have to run recalc+Dev engine on random Debut. Heck, I would just run Dev Engine.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

I don't think that is true at all because the the TCR option would be DISABLED if you have RECALC on. That devs decided not to disable TCR when recalc is on so it has an effect

It is the percent of player that will can have their RATINGS change (Potential or current) It is not just potential otherwise it would not effect anyone over 29 (and the devs would have programmed a popup tooltip reminding you)

Set 1 (no change) there are no overide adjustements to game. Over under is percent of override adjustments applied to players in the game.

Maybe you want to play quasi historical where you still want all the players, but more fog of war. Picking babe ruth may not turn out to be the right move.

You might wanna check that again. When Development Engine is disabled, so is TCR.

I know what I am talking about, I helped setup the historical wizards. ONLY when development is on will TCR be on. So if you are running ONLY Recalc, there is ZERO TCR. Only mode that uses both recalc and Dev Engine is random Debut so, yeah TCR will be on, but at the start of the off-season, players will be recalculated and any change TCR made will not matter because the players have been recalculated by recalc.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Default = Recalc
Replay = Recalc
Career = Development Engine (my baby that I helped setup)
Random Debut = Recalc and Dev Engine (Which no longer needs to be used together since the fix of how players retire) In Random Debut the Dev Engine was used to help retire players otherwise they would never retire. Like Judge in 1920 would play until he was 150 years old. However, since the adjustment of how players retire, you technically no longer have to run recalc+Dev engine on random Debut. Heck, I would just run Dev Engine.

Just some clarification on Random Debut. With OOTP 25 RAH (retire according to history) is an option and is on by default.
Recalc-on, Development-off, RAH-on. Players that played in 2023 IRL will play past their IRL age and retire around age 40-43. The problem is their ratings will basically rinse and repeat until they retire. (I have not tested this in the past 4-5 months.)
Recalc-on, Development-ON, RAH-on. Players that played in 2023 will play past IRL age but development seems to kick in for them so their ratings will decline as they age and will retire mid to late 30s.

Recalc-on, Development-OFF, RAH-off. I have not tested this but I assume players will keep their ratings from their last IRL and players like Judge or maybe Bonds might play forever.
Recalc-off, Development-ON, RAH-on or off. With just development on, all players start taking a hit around age 32-33. Players like Bonds, Aaron, Mays will also be affected and my be average by age 35 or retired. This in turn will artificially inflate the stats of players in their 20s.

To each their own but I prefer Recalc-on, Development-on, RAH-on. The only problem I have (and it’s minor) is that older players (Aaron,Mays, etc.) will tend to have their ratings go down during the season due to development but after the season recalc kicks in and their ratings go back up if appropriate. Basically a minor yo-yo affect on their ratings.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Reed

Just some clarification on Random Debut. With OOTP 25 RAH (retire according to history) is an option and is on by default.
Recalc-on, Development-off, RAH-on. Players that played in 2023 IRL will play past their IRL age and retire around age 40-43. The problem is their ratings will basically rinse and repeat until they retire. (I have not tested this in the past 4-5 months.)
Recalc-on, Development-ON, RAH-on. Players that played in 2023 will play past IRL age but development seems to kick in for them so their ratings will decline as they age and will retire mid to late 30s.

Recalc-on, Development-OFF, RAH-off. I have not tested this but I assume players will keep their ratings from their last IRL and players like Judge or maybe Bonds might play forever.
Recalc-off, Development-ON, RAH-on or off. With just development on, all players start taking a hit around age 32-33. Players like Bonds, Aaron, Mays will also be affected and my be average by age 35 or retired. This in turn will artificially inflate the stats of players in their 20s.

To each their own but I prefer Recalc-on, Development-on, RAH-on. The only problem I have (and it’s minor) is that older players (Aaron,Mays, etc.) will tend to have their ratings go down during the season due to development but after the season recalc kicks in and their ratings go back up if appropriate. Basically a minor yo-yo affect on their ratings.

C'mon, there's nothing better than Groundhog Day baseball. I love to watch Sandy Koufax repeat his 27-9 season over and over and over till he's 45. Thanks for pointing out the stuff you did. There's just so much misinformation that gets posted as fact on these boards.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Default = Recalc
Replay = Recalc
Career = Development Engine (my baby that I helped setup)
Random Debut = Recalc and Dev Engine (Which no longer needs to be used together since the fix of how players retire) In Random Debut the Dev Engine was used to help retire players otherwise they would never retire. Like Judge in 1920 would play until he was 150 years old. However, since the adjustment of how players retire, you technically no longer have to run recalc+Dev engine on random Debut. Heck, I would just run Dev Engine.

If your a big "development engine guy" please get the developers to take a look at stolen bases. I just played a historical league with historical minors from 1961-1966. Recalc disabled, 100 per cent development engine. TCR set to 1. Overall it was amazing how great the game plays this way. Tons of fun. But, then I started looking at stolen bases. From 61-66 the most stolen bases by an individual was 39. Most season finshed with a league leader below 30. I was up to June 10th or so when I quit playing and Maury Wills and Lou Brock only had 2 steals each. League totals for steals were right on the money. But, the steals were being spread across the entire league, instead of having a few indidiual standouts. Silly.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by twins_34

You might wanna check that again. When Development Engine is disabled, so is TCR.

I know what I am talking about, I helped setup the historical wizards. ONLY when development is on will TCR be on. So if you are running ONLY Recalc, there is ZERO TCR. Only mode that uses both recalc and Dev Engine is random Debut so, yeah TCR will be on, but at the start of the off-season, players will be recalculated and any change TCR made will not matter because the players have been recalculated by recalc.

I use recalc and the development engine in almost every historical I play, not just random debut.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Reed

To each their own but I prefer Recalc-on, Development-on, RAH-on. The only problem I have (and it’s minor) is that older players (Aaron,Mays, etc.) will tend to have their ratings go down during the season due to development but after the season recalc kicks in and their ratings go back up if appropriate. Basically a minor yo-yo affect on their ratings.

The ONLY reason these were used together was to make players retire when their recalc ran out because, like I said, players (Let's say Cal Ripken Jr.) comes into the league in a random debut in 1920, he would never retire. Well I figured out the reason, and Matt fixed that reason! Player were set to retire according to the DATE of their retirement. So Cal would play until he was 81 years old (1920-2001). Well using the Development Engine when recalc ran out would regress players enough to force them to retire. Well, now that's no longer matters. The way players retire has been changed to "around" their age of retirement. So, Cal will retire when he gets around 40 years old so around 1940.

This was the ONLY reason all the old timer OOTP players, that play random Debut, would run both system together. You no longer have to anymore and you can play it just using recalc if you want or if you want development on, you can just do development. But the WHGLE reason the Dev Engine was used was to force retire players once recalc ran out of actual data.