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12-15-2001, 11:18 AM
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#21 |
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Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 47
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I'd like to see how a couple of players fared in their careers, namely George Brett, Hal McRae and Steve Brye. Anybody else remember the uproar about Brye and his "playing an out into a hit" that let Brett clinch the batting title on the last day of the 76 season?
Thanks for your recaps, Tiger fan, and keep up the good work! Rob |
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12-15-2001, 06:23 PM
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#22 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My Computer
Posts: 8,249
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I think you've posted him before on the old boards... but how about Joe Jackson... lets see what happened without the Black Sox scandal..
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12-15-2001, 06:32 PM
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#23 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Herscher, IL
Posts: 2,458
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Someone mentioned Ryne Sandberg, and that reminded me of the team that I first remember, the '84 Cubs. I have a few players from that team that I would like to see the HOB careers of.
1) Bob Dernier, CF 2) Leon Durham, 1B 3) Jody Davis, C 4) Rick Sutcliffe, 1984 Cy Young winner Thanks for sharing this great replay with us. If I can ever get the league I'm planning off the ground, I will try to follow your lead. |
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12-15-2001, 06:54 PM
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#24 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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[quote]Originally posted by pcm72:
Since I see your now into the 90's I was wondering how a few favorite players have been doing. I would like to see the stats for Tom Browning, Paul O'Neil, and Barry Larkin As a Reds fan you must be real happy with the HOB. Only the Yankees have more World Championships than the Reds 8, and Cincinnati has dominated since the mid-60's winning 5 World Series titles and 8 pennants in the 15 years from 1965-80. I have simmed through 1993 now but wont provide much information beyond 1980 since that is as far as I have written recaps for and I dont want to spoil the suspense. Anyway here are the players you enquired about Tom BROWNING Browning had a little trouble cracking the Reds rotation early in hios career but appears to have settled in now.
Barry LARKIN Struggled at the plate his rookie season but has shown steady improvement the last 4 years. He finished third in the NL in batting and made his first allstar team this past season.
Paul O"NEIL Has some good ratings but is the odd man out in an outfield including Eric Davis, Kal Daniels and Reggie Sanders. I wouldnt be surprised if the Reds deal him in the next year or two.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-15-2001, 07:33 PM
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#25 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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[quote]Originally posted by Rob Hill:
I'd like to see how a couple of players fared in their careers, namely George Brett, Hal McRae and Steve Brye. Anybody else remember the uproar about Brye and his "playing an out into a hit" that let Brett clinch the batting title on the last day of the 76 season? Thanks for your recaps, Tiger fan, and keep up the good work! Rob Brett's career worked out very similiar to his real life numbers. You would almost think Brye and McRae switched careers in the HOB as McRae wasted most of the best years of his career glued to the Cincinnati bench while Brye had a chance to shine with several teams. Here they are: George Brett A certain Hall of Famer, Brett retired following an injury that cost all but 8 games of the 1992 season. His injury prompted the Royals to trade Bo Jackson to Boston for Wade Boggs. As for Brett, he ends his career with the 6th most hits in league history. He was American League rookie of the year in 1973 and while he never won a batting title he did finish second on three occassions.
Hal McRae McRae was a backup outfielder on the Reds World Championship clubs of 1968 and 1972 as well as the Angels 1979 World Series winner. He moved from Cincinnati to Toronto in the 1977 expansion draft and his only time as a regular was spent with the Blue Jays. Most of the rest of his career was spent pinch hitting. The Jays dealt him to California for a pair of middle infielders named Bruce Christensen and Dave Machemer. He did hit .323 for the Angels in the 1979 postseason.
Steve Brye Much travelled outfielder played for 6 division winners in his career. He spent a lot of time in the minors in the early-80's as he was unable to crack a strong Milwaukee outfield. He was traded from Minnesota to LA in 1975 for Lee Lacy and SS Ray Busse. The Dodgers dealt him to Texas in 1977 with 2B Rafael Landestoy for 3B Bill Madlock. He was dealt from the Rangers to Milwaukeee in 1980 for CF Dick Davis. In 1986 the Brewers sent him to Pittsburgh with a pair of minor leaguers for reliever Cecilio Guante.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-15-2001, 07:38 PM
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#26 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:
I think you've posted him before on the old boards... but how about Joe Jackson... lets see what happened without the Black Sox scandal.. I was actually just finishing Jackson's bio for my Hall of Fame thread. Here is what he accomplished in the HOB: Shoeless Joe Jackson One of the best pure hitters in the history of the game, Jackson won 2 American League batting titles and finished second on 5 occassions. Played for back to back pennant winners for the Senators in 1917=18. He was the Sens first draft picxk, 3rd overall in 1908. (The amateur draft was in effect from 1901-11). An 8 time all star in his career with the Washington Senators (1908-1929).
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-15-2001, 07:57 PM
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#27 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,326
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[quote]Originally posted by Rob Hill:
Anybody else remember the uproar about Brye and his "playing an out into a hit" that let Brett clinch the batting title on the last day of the 76 season? As I recall it Brye let a George Brett fly ball drop and there were rumors it was racially motivated. I did a search and this web page explains the 1976 batting race in more detail. |
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12-15-2001, 08:11 PM
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#28 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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[quote]Originally posted by blubbla:
Someone mentioned Ryne Sandberg, and that reminded me of the team that I first remember, the '84 Cubs. I have a few players from that team that I would like to see the HOB careers of. 1) Bob Dernier, CF 2) Leon Durham, 1B 3) Jody Davis, C 4) Rick Sutcliffe, 1984 Cy Young winner Thanks for sharing this great replay with us. If I can ever get the league I'm planning off the ground, I will try to follow your lead. The news isnt good for your favorite Cubs. Only Davis played regularly throughout his career, although he was also the only one to be a Cub in the HOB. BOB DERNIER Things just never worked out for Dernier in the HOB. He spent seven seasons in the Phillies organization but never made it to the majors. He had great speed and defense but couldnt hit. LEON DURHAM Durham was stuck behind Ken Hernandez to start his career in St Louis. In July of 1988 the Cards gave Durham the job when they dealt Hernandez to Pittsburgh for pitcher Odell Jones. Durham responded with a very poor 1989 season and when he struggled the first half of 1990 the Cards acquired Alvin Davis from Seattle. Durham spent the rest of 1990 in the minors. He fell even further on the depth chart when the Cardinals added Kent Hrbek from the Mets in 1992. By the way, the Mets made Hrbek available because they had picked up Hernandez from Pittsburgh
JODY DAVIS A collision at home plate in 1990 caused Davis to miss 5 weeks with a broken leg but his career was already on the downside. He had a couple of decent seasons with the Cubs but by 1993 was sharing the catching duties with Joe Girardi and Hector Villaneuva. Davis is now 36 years old. His career numbers are virtually identical to what he did in real life.
RICK SUTCLIFFE Too much depth in Los Angeles robbed Sutcliffe of an HOB career. Here are the other starters the Dodgers had in the early 80's: Sid Fernandez, Bob Welch, Orel Hersheiser, Fernando Valenzuela, Charlie Hough, Doug Rau, Dave Stewart, Rick Rhoden, Don Sutton. Sutcliffe retired in 1990 after pitching just 16 major league games.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-16-2001, 05:30 AM
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#29 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Herscher, IL
Posts: 2,458
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Ouch. I suspected Dernier wouldn't amount to much, and I figured that Davis would probably be the same as real life, but I forgot Durham and Sutcliffe began in deep organizations. It's a shame the HOB never dealt them.
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12-16-2001, 06:49 AM
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#30 |
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Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Was NJ, Then FL, Then IL, Then VA, Now Natick, MA !
Posts: 241
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Favorite PLayers (wondering how they are faring)
Jose Rijo, Bobby Witt and Reggie jackson
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Playing Sim ball since Microleague Baseball on my C64 in Highschool, Then Front Page Sports (some Earl Weaver on the Amiga in there as well) and finally made the shift to OOTP around version 2. Been here ever since The Original Atlantic City Gambler and Daytona Beach Fatboy Owner. |
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12-16-2001, 07:21 AM
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#31 |
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All Star Reserve
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 614
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How about my favorite player, Jose Canseco? And what about ESPN analyst Brian McRae?
Thanks
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Buckcheeks was here. |
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12-16-2001, 07:14 PM
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#32 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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Here are the requested players from today.
JOSE RIJO As a 19 year old rookie Rijo won 13 games and appeared destined for a long career in the HOB. However, many a young arm has burned out and left unfufilled expecatations. Jose Rijo's did just that. In 1985 he suffered three different injuries in the final two months of the season. He still won 11 games but a back injury in late September effectively ended his career. His ratings dropped the following spring from 8's across the board to 4's and 5's. At 21 he was washed up. I can only guess the back injury forced him to alter his windup and he lost velocity for he was simply not the same pitcher he had been before the back injury. He has kicked around the Yankee farm system but after winning 24 games before his 21st birthday he has won just one in the 8 years since.
BOBBY WITT Witt has outstanding potential but, at 29, he has still not lived up to it. Part of his problem is the amount of talent in the Rangers rotation.
REGGIE JACKSON One of the greatest home run hitters in the HOB, Reggie was a two time American League MVP. He went 12-for-35 on the biggest stage but sadly never hit a World Series homer. The A's did win two World Championships with Reggie, 1970 and 1975. Only 15 players have hit more homers in the HOB than Reggie's 584.
JOSE CANSECO Mark McGwire has been the more successful Bash Brother, but Jose is coming off a career year in 1993. He appears fully recovered from the nightmare year of 1991 when he suffered a fractured skull after being hit by a pitch in April. He returned to the lineup at the end of June only to be beaned again. He missed a couple of weeks with blurred vision and it clearly affected him mentally in 1992 when he had the worst season of his career. At 28, his best years are ahead of him if he can stay healthy. He seems to be well on pace to duplicating his real life numbers.
BRIAN MCRAE The 26 year old McRae has yet to earn a regular job in the Kansas City outfield. With Royals legend Clint Hurdle along with Al Martin and Jeff Conine ahead of him, it may be a while before McRae will start regularly. McRae was actually given the centerfield job midway through 1992 when Bo Jackson was traded to the Red Sox for Wade Boggs but the Royals were concerned he couldnt yet handle it so they added Al Martin from Pittsburgh in May of 1993.
[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Tiger Fan ]
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-16-2001, 07:34 PM
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#33 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,326
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Okay, another request from me
... how about the Yankee flamethrower with the coke bottle glasses Ryen Duren (spelling could be wrong), negro league star and MLB pitcher in his later years Satchel Paige, and highly touted 60's bonus babies Rich Reichardt (Angels) and Bob Bailey (Pirates).
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12-16-2001, 08:35 PM
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#34 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew:
Okay, another request from me ... how about the Yankee flamethrower with the coke bottle glasses Ryen Duren (spelling could be wrong), negro league star and MLB pitcher in his later years Satchel Paige, and highly touted 60's bonus babies Rich Reichardt (Angels) and Bob Bailey (Pirates).Now we are back into the era of my league I enjoyed the most 1950-70 RYNE DUREN Duren never became a Yankee in the HOB since he began his career with the Browns. He was a decent reliever for the Orioles and helped them win 3 straight World Championships from 1960-62. In the 3 World Series he pitched a total of 4 scoreless innings (Orioles starters went the distance a lot at that time), won 1 game and saved 2 others including Game 7 of the 1962 series.
SATCHEL PAIGE Paige was 42 when he made his debut and was retired at the end of that season. In hindsight I likely should have lowered his age a bit so he could pitch a few seasons since in real life he pitched until he was 46. (He also pitched one game for the KC A's in 1965 at the age of 58 but that was likely a Charlie O'Finley publicity stunt like playing Campy at every position)
RICK REICHARDT Was having an average career for the Angels until they traded for Mickey Stanley late in 1969. Reichardt lost his job with the arrival of Stanley and rookie Mickey Rivers the following season. He saw limited major league action after that but overall his career mirrored his real life numbers quite well.
BOB BAILEY A personal favorite of mine from his days with the Expos, Bailey enjoyed some decent years in the HOB, partiuclarily in 1971. However, there always seemed to be someone better to take his job. Right around the time he was ready to repalce Gene Freese as the Pirates third baseman Richie Hebner came along. The arrival of Hebner in 1968 pretty much ended Bailey's chances of ever becoming the Pirates third baseman. He was dealt to Atlanta in 1969 for pitcher Bob Sadowski. In 1971 Darrell Evans hit his prime so it was time for Bailey to leave Atlanta. In May of 1971 he was dealt to San Diego for OF Alex Johnson. But by 1974 another young third baseman, Bill Sudakis, had taken his job. He was dealt to the Cubs with SS Hector Torres for Dave Kingman, where he finished his career. Bailey missed the Cubs World Series year of 1973 by one season so the closest he got to playoff action was going 0-for-2 in a 1 game playoff to decide the NL East in 1981.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-17-2001, 04:46 AM
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#35 |
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Bat Boy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: River Falls, WI
Posts: 9
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Hi I'd like to know how Gene Brabender faired in his career. I know he's been mentioned before as having some terrible years but he's of particular interest of me because his nephew played on my high school team and is a phenomenal young pitcher and another nephew of his played another team and was really good too.
Thanks |
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12-17-2001, 10:13 AM
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#36 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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Gene Brabender had a longer career in the HOB than he did in real life. He had some decent success late in his career after a terrible beginning. Even the terrible seasons are not all his fault. He had decent ratings but was on an awful team. However, because of the 1971 season and a trade for a future MVP I followed his career very closely.
Gene Brabender Only Clarence Winters of the 1932 Red Sox has lost more games in a single season than the 27 Brabender lost for the 1971 Brewers. Brabender began his career with Baltimore but was unable to crack the Orioles lineup. Just like in real life he was made eligible for the 1969 expansion draft and was selected by the Seattle Pilots. He had a decent year in Seattle tying for the club lead with 9 victories. In 1970 the franchise shifted to Milwaukee and he was the Brewers number 1 starter. The club won just 45 games that season and did even worse in 1971, winning just 34 times. Brabender went 1-27 but his 5.70 era was second best among the Brewers 5 main starters. Teammates Bo Belinsky (3-22) and Jim Slaton (6-21) also lost 20 that season. Brabender's only win that season was a 2-hit complete game shutout of Washington in May. In 1972 the Brewers shifted to the East Division with the transfer of the Washington franchise to Texas. Brabender was dealt to San Diego on opening day with 3B Ron Clark and 2B John Donaldson for 1B Nate Colbert. San Diego fans were outraged. Colbert was the only Padres player ever to make the allstar team and coming off a career year in 1971 (.314,30,107). It is still remembered as the worst trade in Padres history since Colbert would go on to win 4 MVP awards after the Brewers dealt him to Los Angeles. Although he will always be remembered for his 1-27 season and was never fully accepted in San Diego do to being traded for Colbert, Brabender did enjoy some modest success with the Padres. He won a career high 16 games in 1977.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-17-2001, 11:23 AM
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#37 |
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Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 117
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Being a huge Pirate fan I was curious about Dave Parker and Ralph Kiner. Also did C Vic Correll ever do anything in HOB?
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Robert Ex-South Bend Studebakers-OOL KC Royals- NBSL Baseball Union- Pitsburgh Ochorios- Jamaica League |
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12-17-2001, 01:00 PM
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#38 |
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Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 47
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I'd like to see what happened in the HOB with regards to Herb Score, JR Richard, and Whitey Herzog. The first two because injuries/health took them out in their prime and Whitey, well, he's my favorite manager of all time! Thanks!
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12-17-2001, 03:03 PM
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#39 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,873
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Here are today's requested players:
Dave Parker Parker has a shot at the HOB Hall of Fame. He retired following the 1992 season. He was on 6 division winning teams but all 6 lost in the LCS. He was never an allstar but was always a consistant outfielder. As for his trade history in June of 1978 the Brewers gave up P Bill Castro and SS Fred Stanley to acquire Parker. At the deadline in 1981 Milwaukee sent Parker to LA for 1B Pedro Guerrero. In 1986 the Dodgers moved him to Oakland so they could reacquire 1B Steve Garvey from the A's.
Ralph Kiner Kiner holds the Pirates team record for homers in a season with 53 in 1950. The HOB Hall of Famer led the National League in homers on two occassions and was a 6 time allstar outfielder. He played on 3 pennant winning teams and was National League MVP in 1950.
Vic Correll Vic Correll never played a game in the HOB major leagues. He was in the Boston system buried behind Carlton Fisk, Jerry Moses and Bob Montgomery. Later the Red Sox would also have Ed Ott and Bo Diaz as catchers. Correll retired following the 1976 season. Herb Score Score played on some very bad Cleveland Indians teams and made his only allstar appearance in 1962. In 1956 Score missed 2 months with a fractured elbow. The elbow would affect him throughout his career as he missed time in 1957, 1961 and 1970. Each time the injury was elbow related. The 1957 injury was the most troubling as it came in the middle of what could have been the best season of his career. His ratings dipped slightly after that injury and did not return to normal until 1962.
JR Richard Probably the most asked about player from the HOB, Richard's career in this league shows what he might have accomplished had he not had a career ending stoke at age 30. He won back to back Smilin' Mickey Welch Awards as the National League's top hurler in 1983-84. He narrowly lost out in the 1971 NL rookie of the year race to Los Angeles pitcher Charlie Hough. Richard started and won the 1977 allstar game, pitching 3 scoreless innings and allowing just one hit. He never pitched in a postseason game as the Astros finished as high as second in the NL West only once in his career. He holds virtually every Houston club pitching record and ranks 13th alltime with 278 career victories. Only 8 players in the HOB have struck out more than the 4046 batters he fanned in his career. He threw 3 no-hitters in his career - at Montreal in 1972, in St Louis in 1974 and at San Francisco in 1980. They were the first 3 no-hitters in Astros history.
Whitey Herzog A backup for well over a decade with the Senators/Twins organization. Herzog's HOB career was quite similiar to what he did in real life, except he stayed in the HOB as a player for 6 years longer than he did in real life. He broke in as a 24 year old rookie and became the Sens everyday rightfielder in 1956. An injury early in 1957 cost him his starting job to Jim Busby and Herzog would rarely appear in the majors until the mid-sixties.
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Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles |
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12-17-2001, 03:28 PM
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#40 |
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Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: KCMO
Posts: 45
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TigerFan
Great job!!! Keep up the good work. How about Norm Siebern or Jerry Lumpe from the early 60's A's? And how about your boy Mark "The Bird" Fidrych? |
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