1961 Yankees - Page 2

pstrickert · 08-10-2023, 04:24 PM

I know what you mean. Of course, OOTP is not immune from criticism. Often, though, it seems people express opinions based on hearsay or based on their experience with a much older version of the game. But whatever.

thehef · 08-10-2023, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I started this mainly due to the Facebook posts in which the guy finished under .500 managing the 61 Yanks. He was using OOTP21. Cool thing about how OOTP operates when using real lineups is, the AI doesn't immediately insert a stud player into the game if that player sat out in real life. For example, if playing a game and Al Kaline didn't start for the Tigers, it would suck if the AI immediately inserted him into the game. I don't see the AI doing this, and I love it. If we could ever get the actual game day rosters, so the bullpen is full of the actual bullpen guys each day it would be incredible, but I'm guessing that would take way too much work. Heck, I was perusing PC Replay baseball as folks absolutely rave about that game. But, man one would have to be rich to play it and afford the seasons. Guessing they are priced high, because so much work goes into creating them.

Yep, I hear ya. Here's something I posted in the beta group a few months ago that you may find interesting, touching upon exactly what you are saying in the Kaline example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Something I've wanted to test for awhile, that I've just gotten around to... I don't "play" OOTP with historical lineups, but I use it for testing, depending upon the goal of the test... I wanted to see what OOTP - with historical lineups enabled - would do with an unadjusted 1972 Maury Wills, who was simply atrocious from the plate that season (.129 / .190 / .167). Of course OOTP has advance knowledge that Walt Alston didn't: That Maury was washed up, whereas poor Walt just assumed that Wills was off to a slow start...

So IRL Wills started off in his usual leadoff spot. He spent most of April there, but missed almost all of May and the first part of June. By mid-June he returned to the lineup in the leadoff spot for a handful of games, then was benched. He made it back into the lineup sporadically in July, but in the 8 spot. From August on he was relegated to pinch-running and defensive-replacement duties (usually at 3B***), never to see the starting lineup again. (Bill Russell took over at SS, and Lee Lacy was the new leadoff man, having been promoted to handle 2B in place of Jim Lefebvre, who - like Wills - was in his final season and also contributing very little at the plate).

***Of the five other guys to see time at 3B that season, not a single one had a fielding % above .913, so the fact that Wills fielded well at 3B - 1.000 - may have been what kept him on the team after July.)

What I expected was that OOTP - knowing just how terrible a hitter Wills was that season - would pinch-hit for him often and early. What actually happened was that, yes, he was pinch-hit for often, but (IMO to OOTP's credit) never early. He almost always got 3 or 4 AB's before being PH for. In fact, a few times he was pinch-hit for by Claude Osteen - a pitcher (albeit a decent-hitting pitcher that year).

I'll note that I'm not seeing a problem here. I just thought it was an interesting "learn" for me about how OOTP utilizes historical lineups, so I thought I'd share

luckymann · 08-10-2023, 08:26 PM

Yeah, I have noticed a few things in the course of my first Anatomy season. Some bugs with starts and IL stints that PS has kindly taken care of. Some muckabouts with improper debuts that I just let go. But my main concern is the usage of pitchers and how it affects them rolling forward. For example, if Joe Bagodonuts is in the BP and gets called into a blowout game in the sim to mop up but was then started the next day's IRL game, he's not going to perform like he should because he'll be fatigued from that previous day's appearance. It happens more than you'd think (well, more than I did) and needs to be looked at. I reckon pitchers should be given some sort of 360 vision, so that if they have a scheduled start within x days then they are benched so they can't be used. I think such a strategy would really help things in this regard.

1961 is my next stop on that exercise so I'll be very interested to see what results I get using v23, which is where I'll be doing it.

G

pstrickert · 08-10-2023, 09:58 PM

I believe Matt said the SP will be at full strength, regardless of circumstances, when using real lineups. IIRC, that is.

thehef · 08-10-2023, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I believe Matt said the SP will be at full strength, regardless of circumstances, when using real lineups. IIRC, that is.

I wanna second that, though I am not 100% certain...

luckymann · 08-10-2023, 11:10 PM

Yep, that '85 sim is using v22 so it may well have been fixed since then. I'll keep an eye on it for the '61 season and report back if it happened for v23. Although that kind of takes it to the other extreme whereby the SP is actually receiving a benefit he may not in fact be due. No matter, I know how tough it is to get this 100% right. I'm still blown away by the fact they have all of the individual lineups in the DB. A huge feat in and of itself in my books.

David Watts · 08-11-2023, 09:38 AM

I'm up to May 28. We are in second place, right behind the Chicago White Sox and just in front of the Tigers. Forgot to note the exact record, but we are either 21-15 or 22-14. Thing is we are very close to the Yankee's actual record at that time in 61. Right now we are in a trend, where when we lose it's because the bats get completely shut down and we can't score. Mentioned yesterday getting shutout by Jim Bunning. Gary Bell shut us out as well. Ralph Terry is 4-3, but has a ERA in the 1.50 neighborhood. Whitey is 6-3 and probably hates me, as I'm so scared to pull him out of a game. I've been using Luis Arroyo a lot out of the pen. Right now he's on pace to throw 94 innings, so even with my high usage he's not on pace to reach is real life 119. Maris finally hit another home run, giving him 5 or 6. He's hitting below .250 at this time. Mantle has 9 home runs. I'm falling in love with Moose Skowrun. Dude always seems to come up with the big hit.

32koufax · 08-11-2023, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I Heck, I was perusing PC Replay baseball as folks absolutely rave about that game. But, man one would have to be rich to play it and afford the seasons. Guessing they are priced high, because so much work goes into creating them.

Hi David,
I will say that Replay PC plays well out of the box. The game simulcast, in its own way, is a great feature. Accuracy is good. I've replayed '61, 62, 63 and just started '64. Never a doubt about play results as the game is a faithful version of the board game. Very good with outliers as well. Replay for '62 Nellie Fox: 14 strikeouts in 633 AB's. In R/L- 12 K's in 621 AB's.
Nice part is no need to upgrade from year to year like Strat-O-Matic. Just the cost for a season disk.
Jack

David Watts · 08-11-2023, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 32koufax

Hi David,
I will say that Replay PC plays well out of the box. The game simulcast, in its own way, is a great feature. Accuracy is good. I've replayed '61, 62, 63 and just started '64. Never a doubt about play results as the game is a faithful version of the board game. Very good with outliers as well. Replay for '62 Nellie Fox: 14 strikeouts in 633 AB's. In R/L- 12 K's in 621 AB's.
Nice part is no need to upgrade from year to year like Strat-O-Matic. Just the cost for a season disk.
Jack

Everything I've read and the videos I've watched make me believe it's a great game. Do as played seasons with Replay provide the correct game day rosters for each team each and every day of the season? By this, I'm asking if the bench players available each day are the exact bench players available that day in history? The same goes for the available bullpen pitchers?

David Watts · 08-11-2023, 09:15 PM

8-6 in April
16-10 in May.

Mantle closes out May as the teams best hitter. .326, .394, 596. 11 home runs, 26 rbi. Skowron is hitting .265, 8 home runs and 26 rbi. Maris has driven in 25, but he'd hitting a less than stellar .237 with 6 home runs.

Whitey Ford is 7-3, 2.18 over 11 starts. Ford leads the team with 79 Strikeouts. Ralph Terry is 5-3, 1.34 over 8 starts.

32koufax · 08-12-2023, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Everything I've read and the videos I've watched make me believe it's a great game. Do as played seasons with Replay provide the correct game day rosters for each team each and every day of the season? By this, I'm asking if the bench players available each day are the exact bench players available that day in history? The same goes for the available bullpen pitchers?

Yes, all transactions and roster moves are made according to real life. Players that have been traded or sent down to the minors will appear on the opening league page. So, for my Phillies, as an example, pitcher, Ed Roebuck will start the season with Washington. On Thursday, 4/23, he will automatically be removed from the Sens roster and appear on the Phillies roster. There is no work that needs to be done on your end. It is all handled by the PC.

David Watts · 08-13-2023, 09:09 AM

35-22, First Place, 1 game ahead of Detroit. Mickey Mantle is hitting .302,.397,.558. He's third in the AL with 15 home runs and has driven in 35 runs. Maris continues to struggle in the average department, .218, but he's walked a team high 37 times. Maris has 34 rbi on the season and 10 home runs. At this time 61 looks impossible. Moose Skowrun has 9 home runs and 34 rbi, but his average has fallen to .244.

Whitey Ford is now 9-5, 2.08, 115 strikeouts. Ralph Terry is now 6-5, 1.92 over 11 starts. Bill Stafford is starting to get regular starts and is thriving in the roll, 5-1. 2.80. Stafford has thrown 2 consecutive complete game shutouts.

We just ran off 8 straight wins. We then met up with Gary Bell and once again we were helpless against him, scoring only 1. Bell has now tossed 18 innings against us, allowing only a Mickey Mantle solo shot. The Yankees are 11-6 so far in the month of June.

In other news, Norm Cash is not anywhere close to being 1961 Norm Cash, .262, 12, 31.

webrian · 08-16-2023, 01:09 PM

I recently started a 1961 Yankees replay on OOTP24. But as I'm doing many other projects, it's kinda slow going. Not doing real-life lineups/transactions. It's a parallel universe, and I'm embracing that.

Anyway, using the regular 1961 Yankees lineup, I started off 0-3 with three straight narrow losses to the Twins. Then I switched it up:

Clete Boyer - 3B
Johnny Blanchard - LF
Mickey Mantle - CF
Elston Howard - C
Roger Maris - RF
Bill Skowron - 1B
Tony Kubek - SS
Bobby Richardson - 2B
Pitcher

With this somewhat bizarre lineup, I've won 4 in a row and outscored the KC A's and the expansion Angels 30-14. We are third in the AL in runs scored (38) and have allowed the second-fewest runs (25).

Of course, it's EARLY. I know that. Still ... this is interesting, don't you think?

Brad K · 08-16-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

In other news, Norm Cash is not anywhere close to being 1961 Norm Cash, .262, 12, 31.

I'd say with this start the best he can do is hit .315. Please keep a watch on him.

David Watts · 08-17-2023, 06:17 PM

Up to June 23rd, 40-25, 4 games ahead of Detroit and Baltimore, 4 1/2 ahead of Chicago.

Mantle is now leading the AL with 20 home runs. He's driven in 46 runs and is hitting .308, .405, .608. Maris has his average up to .239, .357, .487. Roger now has 15 home runs and 41 rbi. The Yankees have hit 75 home runs so far, good for 2md in the league. Out pyt says we should be 42-23, so we are 2 games off. We have a +81 run differential.

Whitey Ford is 9-7, 2.56. Ralph Terry is 7-5, 2.13.

Norm Cash watch. His average is up to .274

David Watts · 08-26-2023, 09:39 AM

Yankees are 49-29. one game off their real 61 record of 50-28.

We are in 1st place, 4 1/2 games ahead of Baltimore and 5 1/2 ahead pf Detroit.

Roger Maris has his average up the .252. He's hit 20 bombs with 49 RBI. Mantle has 25 home runs with 56 RBI.

Whitey Ford has been cold as ice of late and now sports a 9-9 record. Bill Stafford has picked up the slack and is now 8-2.

Norm Cash is now hitting .300

08-10-2023, 08:26 PM	#23
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,426	Yeah, I have noticed a few things in the course of my first Anatomy season. Some bugs with starts and IL stints that PS has kindly taken care of. Some muckabouts with improper debuts that I just let go. But my main concern is the usage of pitchers and how it affects them rolling forward. For example, if Joe Bagodonuts is in the BP and gets called into a blowout game in the sim to mop up but was then started the next day's IRL game, he's not going to perform like he should because he'll be fatigued from that previous day's appearance. It happens more than you'd think (well, more than I did) and needs to be looked at. I reckon pitchers should be given some sort of 360 vision, so that if they have a scheduled start within x days then they are benched so they can't be used. I think such a strategy would really help things in this regard. 1961 is my next stop on that exercise so I'll be very interested to see what results I get using v23, which is where I'll be doing it. G __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

08-10-2023, 11:10 PM	#26
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,426	Yep, that '85 sim is using v22 so it may well have been fixed since then. I'll keep an eye on it for the '61 season and report back if it happened for v23. Although that kind of takes it to the other extreme whereby the SP is actually receiving a benefit he may not in fact be due. No matter, I know how tough it is to get this 100% right. I'm still blown away by the fact they have all of the individual lineups in the DB. A huge feat in and of itself in my books. __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA Last edited by luckymann; 08-10-2023 at 11:12 PM.

08-10-2023, 04:24 PM	#21
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,433	I know what you mean. Of course, OOTP is not immune from criticism. Often, though, it seems people express opinions based on hearsay or based on their experience with a much older version of the game. But whatever.

08-10-2023, 09:58 PM	#24
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,433	I believe Matt said the SP will be at full strength, regardless of circumstances, when using real lineups. IIRC, that is.

08-11-2023, 09:38 AM	#27
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,864 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I'm up to May 28. We are in second place, right behind the Chicago White Sox and just in front of the Tigers. Forgot to note the exact record, but we are either 21-15 or 22-14. Thing is we are very close to the Yankee's actual record at that time in 61. Right now we are in a trend, where when we lose it's because the bats get completely shut down and we can't score. Mentioned yesterday getting shutout by Jim Bunning. Gary Bell shut us out as well. Ralph Terry is 4-3, but has a ERA in the 1.50 neighborhood. Whitey is 6-3 and probably hates me, as I'm so scared to pull him out of a game. I've been using Luis Arroyo a lot out of the pen. Right now he's on pace to throw 94 innings, so even with my high usage he's not on pace to reach is real life 119. Maris finally hit another home run, giving him 5 or 6. He's hitting below .250 at this time. Mantle has 9 home runs. I'm falling in love with Moose Skowrun. Dude always seems to come up with the big hit.

08-11-2023, 09:15 PM	#30
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,864 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	8-6 in April 16-10 in May. Mantle closes out May as the teams best hitter. .326, .394, 596. 11 home runs, 26 rbi. Skowron is hitting .265, 8 home runs and 26 rbi. Maris has driven in 25, but he'd hitting a less than stellar .237 with 6 home runs. Whitey Ford is 7-3, 2.18 over 11 starts. Ford leads the team with 79 Strikeouts. Ralph Terry is 5-3, 1.34 over 8 starts.

08-13-2023, 09:09 AM	#32
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,864 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	35-22, First Place, 1 game ahead of Detroit. Mickey Mantle is hitting .302,.397,.558. He's third in the AL with 15 home runs and has driven in 35 runs. Maris continues to struggle in the average department, .218, but he's walked a team high 37 times. Maris has 34 rbi on the season and 10 home runs. At this time 61 looks impossible. Moose Skowrun has 9 home runs and 34 rbi, but his average has fallen to .244. Whitey Ford is now 9-5, 2.08, 115 strikeouts. Ralph Terry is now 6-5, 1.92 over 11 starts. Bill Stafford is starting to get regular starts and is thriving in the roll, 5-1. 2.80. Stafford has thrown 2 consecutive complete game shutouts. We just ran off 8 straight wins. We then met up with Gary Bell and once again we were helpless against him, scoring only 1. Bell has now tossed 18 innings against us, allowing only a Mickey Mantle solo shot. The Yankees are 11-6 so far in the month of June. In other news, Norm Cash is not anywhere close to being 1961 Norm Cash, .262, 12, 31.

08-16-2023, 01:09 PM	#33
webrian Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 264	I recently started a 1961 Yankees replay on OOTP24. But as I'm doing many other projects, it's kinda slow going. Not doing real-life lineups/transactions. It's a parallel universe, and I'm embracing that. Anyway, using the regular 1961 Yankees lineup, I started off 0-3 with three straight narrow losses to the Twins. Then I switched it up: Clete Boyer - 3B Johnny Blanchard - LF Mickey Mantle - CF Elston Howard - C Roger Maris - RF Bill Skowron - 1B Tony Kubek - SS Bobby Richardson - 2B Pitcher With this somewhat bizarre lineup, I've won 4 in a row and outscored the KC A's and the expansion Angels 30-14. We are third in the AL in runs scored (38) and have allowed the second-fewest runs (25). Of course, it's EARLY. I know that. Still ... this is interesting, don't you think?

08-17-2023, 06:17 PM	#35
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,864 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Up to June 23rd, 40-25, 4 games ahead of Detroit and Baltimore, 4 1/2 ahead of Chicago. Mantle is now leading the AL with 20 home runs. He's driven in 46 runs and is hitting .308, .405, .608. Maris has his average up to .239, .357, .487. Roger now has 15 home runs and 41 rbi. The Yankees have hit 75 home runs so far, good for 2md in the league. Out pyt says we should be 42-23, so we are 2 games off. We have a +81 run differential. Whitey Ford is 9-7, 2.56. Ralph Terry is 7-5, 2.13. Norm Cash watch. His average is up to .274

08-26-2023, 09:39 AM	#36
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,864 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Yankees are 49-29. one game off their real 61 record of 50-28. We are in 1st place, 4 1/2 games ahead of Baltimore and 5 1/2 ahead pf Detroit. Roger Maris has his average up the .252. He's hit 20 bombs with 49 RBI. Mantle has 25 home runs with 56 RBI. Whitey Ford has been cold as ice of late and now sports a 9-9 record. Bill Stafford has picked up the slack and is now 8-2. Norm Cash is now hitting .300