My Thoughts on FH9

[tomkmb]

Originally Posted by drummerJ99

I get that. But you’d think being developed by the same people that the look and feel would be somewhat the same. I understand sim engine would have to be completely different. But after 9 versions I’d expect the UI and ease of use to be much closer to OOTP than say EHM.


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They're not developed by the same people though, Jeff has said before that you can count the FHM team (I'm assuming he means in it's entirety and not just the devs) on one hand. It's a much smaller operation. They've also mentioned before on stream/somewhere that they don't share the same codebase so it's not like this is just the OOTP game with a Hockey skin slapped on it, meaning there will be significant differences and it's also in it's infancy compared to OOTP which has been around a lot longer.

[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by tomkmb

They're not developed by the same people though, Jeff has said before that you can count the FHM team (I'm assuming he means in it's entirety and not just the devs) on one hand. It's a much smaller operation. They've also mentioned before on stream/somewhere that they don't share the same codebase so it's not like this is just the OOTP game with a Hockey skin slapped on it, meaning there will be significant differences and it's also in it's infancy compared to OOTP which has been around a lot longer.

Like ten years longer and like I mentioned Baseball (especially in the states) is a much more popular sport and baseball video games sell much better than any hockey game. Therefore, the budget for each game is likely quite different. I want FHM to be as deep and immersive as OOTP as much as the next person, but I understand that it's not going happen overnight, or anytime as soon as most diehard hockey fans would like.

[drummerJ99]

Originally Posted by tomkmb

They're not developed by the same people though, Jeff has said before that you can count the FHM team (I'm assuming he means in it's entirety and not just the devs) on one hand. It's a much smaller operation. They've also mentioned before on stream/somewhere that they don't share the same codebase so it's not like this is just the OOTP game with a Hockey skin slapped on it, meaning there will be significant differences and it's also in it's infancy compared to OOTP which has been around a lot longer.

I understand they aren't developed by the same people...but wouldn't it make sense to ditch the code they are using and use the same codebase as OOTP? That way they can share resources and brainstorm with each other if one has a problem?!? That makes even way more sense compared to how small the FHM team is to OOTP. OOTP has been released since 1999. Why would you not want to use their codebase that has over a decade of history with it?

[tomkmb]

Originally Posted by drummerJ99

I understand they aren't developed by the same people...but wouldn't it make sense to ditch the code they are using and use the same codebase as OOTP? That way they can share resources and brainstorm with each other if one has a problem?!? That makes even way more sense compared to how small the FHM team is to OOTP. OOTP has been released since 1999. Why would you not want to use their codebase that has over a decade of history with it?

There are things things in game development which are best left to those who know how to do it, it's easy for us to be on the forum saying "Hey, why don't you just ditch your whole codebase and use someone else's?" but in reality do you not think they're doing all of these things with a reason? or should I say, there is probably a reason they're NOT doing things like 'ditching their codebase and replacing it with OOTP's'. Again, I'm not privy to the business side of OOTP Developments and COM2US or whatever they're called but I'm sure they're set up they way they are in terms of development teams and technical teams for a reason.

EDIT - oh and also OOTP is built to simulate Baseball as authentically as it can, FHM is built to simulate Hockey in the same way, so their code bases are fundamentally different for that reason amongst I'm sure a million others.

[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by drummerJ99

I understand they aren't developed by the same people...but wouldn't it make sense to ditch the code they are using and use the same codebase as OOTP? That way they can share resources and brainstorm with each other if one has a problem?!? That makes even way more sense compared to how small the FHM team is to OOTP. OOTP has been released since 1999. Why would you not want to use their codebase that has over a decade of history with it?

I believe Jeff has stated it's not that simple considering how different the two sports are. I know he discussed it in the game streams him and Adam do.

[drummerJ99]

Originally Posted by tomkmb

There are things things in game development which are best left to those who know how to do it, it's easy for us to be on the forum saying "Hey, why don't you just ditch your whole codebase and use someone else's?" but in reality do you not think they're doing all of these things with a reason? or should I say, there is probably a reason they're NOT doing things like 'ditching their codebase and replacing it with OOTP's'. Again, I'm not privy to the business side of OOTP Developments and COM2US or whatever they're called but I'm sure they're set up they way they are in terms of development teams and technical teams for a reason.

EDIT - oh and also OOTP is built to simulate Baseball as authentically as it can, FHM is built to simulate Hockey in the same way, so their code bases are fundamentally different for that reason amongst I'm sure a million others.

Originally Posted by Savoie45

I believe Jeff has stated it's not that simple considering how different the two sports are. I know he discussed it in the game streams him and Adam do.

I'm referring solely to UI and all the stuff you access "outside" of the actual day to day games. Of course the sim engine and how games are played will be completely different. 2 vastly different sports. There's stuff you can do in OOTP that you can't in FHM. Export to HTML, game recaps written by the game, filter by position when editing lines, create player card at anytime via roster. That's the kinda stuff I'm referring to.

[viperswhip]

This is the 4th version I have played and I don't fiddle too much with tactics, sometimes turn on more shooting, but ONCE AGAIN I lead the league in both giveaways and takeaways, this happens every season, every edition of the game I have played.

What is happening?

[tomkmb]

Originally Posted by viperswhip

This is the 4th version I have played and I don't fiddle too much with tactics, sometimes turn on more shooting, but ONCE AGAIN I lead the league in both giveaways and takeaways, this happens every season, every edition of the game I have played.

What is happening?

Try going into the setup options and changing the ‘sim style’ or whatever it’s called for the rest of the leagues games to the 2D engine from classic to match your own, this has helped with this for me as there seems to be a large discrepancies in takeaways and giveaways between the two engines.


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[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by tomkmb

Try going into the setup options and changing the ‘sim style’ or whatever it’s called for the rest of the leagues games to the 2D engine from classic to match your own, this has helped with this for me as there seems to be a large discrepancies in takeaways and giveaways between the two engines.


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I don't know if what you say is true, but I do know that I typically have the same issue he has being tops in both categories. I use the 2D classic for both, because it sims faster. That said, I only pay attention to most stats when I'm ready to resign players, otherwise it's all about Game Ratings. As long as I'm winning is the bigger thing.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Savoie45

Just because Franchise Hockey and Out of the Park are under the same umbrella doesn't mean they get the same budget. Baseball is a massively popular sport compared to Hockey, especially in the US. Therefore, it's quite likely Out of the Park has always sold quite well compared to Franchise Hockey.

That said I agree with most of what you said, though I usually see sufficient hit and shot block numbers when compared to real life numbers. Is Make Trade Work buggy or just not producing the results you want? I do agree the AI is really tough when it comes to trades. I typically don't make trades though, as I have no problems building great teams from Free Agency, Waivers, and the Draft.

Can you show the stats/run a report on hit and shot block numbers?
I'd like to see that

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by drummerJ99

I understand they aren't developed by the same people...but wouldn't it make sense to ditch the code they are using and use the same codebase as OOTP? That way they can share resources and brainstorm with each other if one has a problem?!? That makes even way more sense compared to how small the FHM team is to OOTP. OOTP has been released since 1999. Why would you not want to use their codebase that has over a decade of history with it?

They absolutely should share resources and certain code bases.
Clearly there is overlap in screens, teams etc.
Number one should be everything should be fitlerable, sortable and reportable.....HTML as an option not preferred

[drummerJ99]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

They absolutely should share resources and certain code bases.
Clearly there is overlap in screens, teams etc.
Number one should be everything should be fitlerable, sortable and reportable.....HTML as an option not preferred

I like to track my dynasties outside of the game, so being able to "open in browser" like OOTP would be a nice time saver to be able to copy and paste, instead of typing everything out.

[Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by drummerJ99

I like to track my dynasties outside of the game, so being able to "open in browser" like OOTP would be a nice time saver to be able to copy and paste, instead of typing everything out.

Yes absolutely this.

I have done tons of OOTP historical dynasty reports in the past and a few with FHM but the lack of copy and paste options makes it far more work than it is worth. To post standings and scoring leaders in FHM you need to either manually type everything out or take multiple screenshots and piece them together.

Even just a simple page dump in a text file for standings and stats pages would be a huge benefit. But html certainly would be the best solution.

Too bad also, because I think the developers have done a fantastic job with historical and the multiple options we have for alternate history scenarios. I still like to play historical replays but the lack of any sort of 'copy and paste' option makes dynasty writing too much of a hassle, at least for me. And it seems for others as well since there are never more than maybe a half dozen dynasty writeups ever active in FHM compared to the hundreds in OOTP.

[Savoie45]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Can you show the stats/run a report on hit and shot block numbers?
I'd like to see that

Using default tactics for Aggression/Hitting most teams average around 20 hits per game which is in line with NHL averages for last season which average between 20-24 hits. Shot block averages in the NHL are 14-18 per team, which the game also falls in line with.

[jumpSeat]

Originally Posted by brettrankin

I have not played FHM 9 yet. I was waiting to hear about the 2D representation. That is super important to me. I want to see something comparable to Eastside
Hockey Manager. I wish they could just work with EHM on a project so we can have the best of both games.

The 2D in Eastside is other worldly. It sounds like you and I are on much the same page in terms of our thought process.

[crusadertsar]

Originally Posted by jumpSeat

The 2D in Eastside is other worldly. It sounds like you and I are on much the same page in terms of our thought process.

Yeah same! That would be a dream collaboration. The statistics side from FHM and 2D engine from EHM.

[tomkmb]

Originally Posted by Savoie45

I don't know if what you say is true, but I do know that I typically have the same issue he has being tops in both categories. I use the 2D classic for both, because it sims faster. That said, I only pay attention to most stats when I'm ready to resign players, otherwise it's all about Game Ratings. As long as I'm winning is the bigger thing.

Here is a thread from FHM8 where JS and myself had a little exchange of some screenshots highlighting some of the difference shown between the two stat engines.

I'm currently playing through a new sim in all 2d game modes (not playing the games out myself, I never do that) but will report back on my stats at the end of that season comparative to the rest of the league.

Don't think there has ever been official comment from Jeff or anyone from the team on these differences, just them saying that they engines shouldn't (consistently) produce statistical anomalies.