Cleveland Indians / Guardians - Page 2

Syd Thrift · 04-14-2022, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

Just as we are free to disable the color bar for any pre-1947 season, and then sign/draft Negro League players, as I have done for each such season. With OOTP it is to each his/her/their own.

What bothers me about such changes is that they tend to be cosmetic efforts, more talking the talk than walking he walk. All for eliminating racist, insulting, demeaning images that hurt people; but would hope that is followed up by fair treatment and an end to discrimination.

Again, I think it's very, very easy for this not to be political at all. Major League Baseball and the Cleveland Guardians baseball team have decreed that nobody using their license can use the Indians. Period. End of story. OOTP allows you to modify the game so that it does whatever you want it to do but that's just a side effect, really. This is beyond Markus' ability to control, even if he wanted to, unless for some reason he wanted to break his licensing agreement.

It always amazes me how anti-capitalist some people seem to be on this forum (not you, Pelican)...

David Watts · 04-14-2022, 11:45 AM

Another question. If one has to change it back to the historically correct name each year due to historical expansion being on, when should one do so in order for the name change not to show up as part of the leagues history?

Fabtron7 · 04-14-2022, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Again, I think it's very, very easy for this not to be political at all. Major League Baseball and the Cleveland Guardians baseball team have decreed that nobody using their license can use the Indians. Period. End of story. OOTP allows you to modify the game so that it does whatever you want it to do but that's just a side effect, really. This is beyond Markus' ability to control, even if he wanted to, unless for some reason he wanted to break his licensing agreement.

It always amazes me how anti-capitalist some people seem to be on this forum (not you, Pelican)...

A million percent this... The statement from Markus was pretty self explanatory, essentially 'We had to do this so we did'. I'm never sure why people need to fly in with their "YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY SYSTEMIC RASICM" hot takes.

Its imaginary baseball... plus you can change their logo to two caribou playing tennis with a sausage it you want to... just be a grown up and roll with it.

silvam14 · 04-14-2022, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Another question. If one has to change it back to the historically correct name each year due to historical expansion being on, when should one do so in order for the name change not to show up as part of the leagues history?

These are good questions David, and hopefully there will be some kind of procedure put together sometime soon

Germaniac · 04-14-2022, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Another question. If one has to change it back to the historically correct name each year due to historical expansion being on, when should one do so in order for the name change not to show up as part of the leagues history?

If I'm not totally wrong that happens with the start of pre-season, by that time the nickname has to be changed

neugey · 04-14-2022, 12:41 PM

I just feel bad for the Perfect Team staff/card art guy who probably has his hands full re-doing that stuff!

tejdog1 · 04-14-2022, 01:47 PM

Racism bad.
But this... this good, apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emQ6_PrRzIk

ryanivr · 04-14-2022, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mochuck

Screw this PC bull.. they are and always be the Indians to me.. Washington is the redskins..

Aww, such a special little snowflake. I'm sorry this name change offended you.

tonnage · 04-14-2022, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanivr

Aww, such a special little snowflake. I'm sorry this name change offended you.

Good one... NOT!

MathBandit · 04-14-2022, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokerhusky1129

Just making sure though... nothing is stopping us from renaming them the Indians?

I guess you could rename them to the Indians if you want, but I'm not sure a team logo of a decorated elephant and in-park catering suite of butter chicken, rogan josh lamb, and other curries would be particularly popular with a Cleveland market. Seems a little unrealistic to me, but you do you.

BirdWatcher · 04-14-2022, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I guess you could rename them to the Indians if you want, but I'm not sure a team logo of a decorated elephant and in-park catering suite of butter chicken, rogan josh lamb, and other curries would be particularly popular with a Cleveland market. Seems a little unrealistic to me, but you do you.

Darn you- now I have a major craving for Indian food.

fifthorkid · 04-14-2022, 03:54 PM

Just wait, the Braves will be the next ones to be forced to change.

T-Bone · 04-14-2022, 04:57 PM

I understand the name change - I suppose it is time; however, re-writing history is silly.

BigLou · 04-14-2022, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelican

just as we are free to disable the color bar for any pre-1947 season, and then sign/draft negro league players, as i have done for each such season. With ootp it is to each his/her/their own.

What bothers me about such changes is that they tend to be cosmetic efforts, more talking the talk than walking he walk. All for eliminating racist, insulting, demeaning images that hurt people; but would hope that is followed up by fair treatment and an end to discrimination.

100%

daves · 04-14-2022, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yeah, I would have liked Spiders, too

But Guardians is a good name as well... although I always have to think of a certain Star-Lord and this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLom-87AmO8

The Rockers were preferred in Cleveland since the Rock N Roll hall of fame is there. Could you imagine the musical merchandise sales? Enormous!

ohiodevil · 04-14-2022, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

The Rockers were preferred in Cleveland since the Rock N Roll hall of fame is there. Could you imagine the musical merchandise sales? Enormous!

No it wasn't, the fans around here either wanted the Indians name to stay or go with Guardians or Spiders, most people said that Rockers was not even in their top 10.....plus there was already a Cleveland Rockers (the WNBA team) and no one cared when they left.

daves · 04-14-2022, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

No it wasn't, the fans around here either wanted the Indians name to stay or go with Guardians or Spiders, most people said that Rockers was not even in their top 10.....plus there was already a Cleveland Rockers (the WNBA team) and no one cared when they left.

Your right. Indians and Spiders were preferred. But if Rockers were done right, it could have been big. If done right though?

majesty95 · 04-14-2022, 07:35 PM

I did the etymology on Redskins once. It was originally used as an adjective. White skin, black skin, red skin. It’s unfortunate it had to turn into scalping references. I don’t understand why Indians and Braves are only thought of negatively though. I have no idea about the history of those teams and their use of the name previously. I never thought poorly of American Indians because of Cleveland or Atlanta though. If anything it made me more curious about Native Americans. I think we’re going to lose that as an unintended consequence if this moral cleansing.

tward13 · 04-14-2022, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mochuck

Screw this PC bull.. they are and always be the Indians to me.. Washington is the redskins..

What a loser. They haven't always been the Indians.

Primary · 04-14-2022, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mochuck

Screw this PC bull.. they are and always be the Indians to me.. Washington is the redskins..

it'll be ok buddy

04-14-2022, 12:41 PM	#26
neugey All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 805	I just feel bad for the Perfect Team staff/card art guy who probably has his hands full re-doing that stuff! __________________ Online OOTP League Play: PBA - Cincinnati Reds MLM - Baltimore Orioles

04-14-2022, 01:47 PM	#27
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,647	Racism bad. But this... this good, apparently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emQ6_PrRzIk __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

04-14-2022, 04:57 PM	#33
T-Bone Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Freehold Posts: 159	Re-writing History I understand the name change - I suppose it is time; however, re-writing history is silly.

04-14-2022, 07:35 PM	#38
majesty95 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,789	I did the etymology on Redskins once. It was originally used as an adjective. White skin, black skin, red skin. It’s unfortunate it had to turn into scalping references. I don’t understand why Indians and Braves are only thought of negatively though. I have no idea about the history of those teams and their use of the name previously. I never thought poorly of American Indians because of Cleveland or Atlanta though. If anything it made me more curious about Native Americans. I think we’re going to lose that as an unintended consequence if this moral cleansing. __________________ College Football Sim League Last edited by majesty95; 04-14-2022 at 07:36 PM.

04-14-2022, 11:45 AM	#22
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,887 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Another question. If one has to change it back to the historically correct name each year due to historical expansion being on, when should one do so in order for the name change not to show up as part of the leagues history?

04-14-2022, 03:54 PM	#32
fifthorkid Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49	Just wait, the Braves will be the next ones to be forced to change.