Players Refusing ASSIGNMENT

[Springtime_for_Hunter]

if that were the case then we'd have to add in the option of having a postseason roster.

meaning we could demote/promote to the Majors during the postseason. Well not during, but after every series...which is how the Majors works.

And OOTP too, at least OOTP4. I've done it myself.

[Chappy]

Originally posted by holyroller
It does happen in "real" major leagues. Players have option years during which they can be sent to the minor leagues without consent. After those options run out, the player must be passed through waivers. If the player is not claimed, the player has the option to refuse assignment to the minor leagues and must be kept on the roster, traded, or released.

It would be nice if we had a clue of when these options ran out. Perhaps in the future we will.

As for me, this isn't a big deal because I don't mind turning this feature off Sept. 1st.

[ej66]

Originally posted by lynchjm24

If the Cardinals had left Scott Rolen off their postseason roster last year because he wasn't 100% would they have to put him through waivers. Of course not.

No, they would have placed him on the DL.

I don't understand how a waiver system would make any type of diffference. If a veteran player refuses assignment to the minors, the waiver system really doesn't come into play much at all. Even if he does clear waivers, you still have to keep him on the ML roster or release him.

[sixfour210]

Hey Jack Bauer, how in the bageezus did you get "24" as your rank? Did you pull something with CTU or something?

[mad0die]

I would like to see the current system enhanced a tad by giving players 3 options. So, basically you get 3 free demotions after their 5th year of service. Once he is out of options, he sticks where you left him. This doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement and it would adequately cover situations like DL, playoff rosters. etc.

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by mad0die
I would like to see the current system enhanced a tad by giving players 3 options. So, basically you get 3 free demotions after their 5th year of service. Once he is out of options, he sticks where you left him. This doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement and it would adequately cover situations like DL, playoff rosters. etc.

Well I, for one, would not want to see this because it is unrealistic. The strategy should lie in whether you want to risk bringing a certain guy up on the roster when you know he is out of options and can refuse assignment. If your strategy backfires and you have to release him, then that's your decision and this happens all the time in real life.

I'm not into making up more rules to complicate the game. I'm only interested in ways to make the game more like real MLB and it seems Markus is headed in the right direction. It's just a slow process.

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by mad0die
I would like to see the current system enhanced a tad by giving players 3 options. So, basically you get 3 free demotions after their 5th year of service. Once he is out of options, he sticks where you left him. This doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement and it would adequately cover situations like DL, playoff rosters. etc.

Except this isn't realistic. Players don't have free demotions after they gain "veterans rights".

That said the playoff situation is anomolous. The playoff roster in MLB is not the 25 man roster. So the refusing assignment rules do not come into play for the playoffs in real life. So there has to be a way to set a playoff roster without impacting the 25 man roster, you can't necessarily just lift the Options rule because this is exploitative.

In MLB the playoff roster is a seperate entity, in actuallity after Sept.1 until Opening Day only the 40 man roster limits are enforced, with the exception of the playoff teams who maintain the seperate playoff roster. For the rest of the teams guys who don't have options remaining just sit on the 40 man roster, but would be given the option of refusing assignment at the start of the next season, should they not be on the 25 man roster.

If we simply allowed people free demotions during the offseason, it becomes an exploitative way to get players who would normally refuse the assignment, to go to the minors.

To me while the disabling of the options is a good work around for the time being; its not the final solution that we should be looking for.

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
Except this isn't realistic. Players don't have free demotions after they gain "veterans rights".

That said the playoff situation is anomolous. The playoff roster in MLB is not the 25 man roster. So the refusing assignment rules do not come into play for the playoffs in real life. So there has to be a way to set a playoff roster without impacting the 25 man roster, you can't necessarily just lift the Options rule because this is exploitative.

In MLB the playoff roster is a seperate entity, in actuallity after Sept.1 until Opening Day only the 40 man roster limits are enforced, with the exception of the playoff teams who maintain the seperate playoff roster. For the rest of the teams guys who don't have options remaining just sit on the 40 man roster, but would be given the option of refusing assignment at the start of the next season, should they not be on the 25 man roster.

If we simply allowed people free demotions during the offseason, it becomes an exploitative way to get players who would normally refuse the assignment, to go to the minors.

To me while the disabling of the options is a good work around for the time being; its not the final solution that we should be looking for.

So basically what you're saying is that, during the playoffs, teams have the right to leave a veteran off the 25-man roster and it's not considered a demotion to the minors? And they still remain on the 40-man roster. If this is true, I guess that's what happened to Bill Mueller last year with the Giants.

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by sixfour210
So basically what you're saying is that, during the playoffs, teams have the right to leave a veteran off the 25-man roster and it's not considered a demotion to the minors? And they still remain on the 40-man roster. If this is true, I guess that's what happened to Bill Mueller last year with the Giants.

This is correct. The playoff roster is not the normal 25 man roster. So leaving a guy off the playoff roster is NOT considered a demotion.

[mad0die]

Originally posted by sixfour210
So basically what you're saying is that, during the playoffs, teams have the right to leave a veteran off the 25-man roster and it's not considered a demotion to the minors? And they still remain on the 40-man roster. If this is true, I guess that's what happened to Bill Mueller last year with the Giants.

Actually, I think Mueller was picked up too late in the season to even be eligible for their playoff roster.

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
This is correct. The playoff roster is not the normal 25 man roster. So leaving a guy off the playoff roster is NOT considered a demotion.

Cool. Well maybe you could allow players in ootp to be sent down to an inactive list for the playoffs but after that, the team will not be able to play or sim another game until the player is taken off the inactive list by being assigned to the 25-man roster or released. One idea on how to handle it.

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by mad0die
Actually, I think Mueller was picked up too late in the season to even be eligible for their playoff roster.

How can you not be eligible to be on the playoff roster?

[Scott Vibert]

My thought (and I don't know if this is doable, I'd have to check with Markus) is the following:

On a date (hopefully customizable, but otherwise August 31/September 1) have the game set a flag for each player on the DL and major league rosters making them playoff eligible. Then during the playoffs create a new roster, that only guys with the playoff eligible flag can be placed on. Those players can be removed/replaced by anyone who also has the playoff eligible flag, but only between series.

First, I'm not sure how involved this would be to add, but I suspect it will take some work. Secondly, the problem of replacing players who go on the DL after the season. Maybe prompt the user to click on a new player to make him playoff eligible to replace the DL'ed playoff eligible guy. (Taking away the DL'ed guys eligibility)

Thoughts?

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by sixfour210
How can you not be eligible to be on the playoff roster?

If you are not on the teams 25 man roster and also not on the DL on August 31st you are not eligible to be on the playoff roster.


However, there is an exception where if a playoff eligible player goes on the DL after Sept. 1 any player who is in your organization can be used as a replacement. (Which is how Rodriguez of Anaheim was eligible to be on the Angels post season roster last year, he replaced an injured guy)

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
If you are not on the teams 25 man roster and also not on the DL on August 31st you are not eligible to be on the playoff roster.


However, there is an exception where if a playoff eligible player goes on the DL after Sept. 1 any player who is in your organization can be used as a replacement. (Which is how Rodriguez of Anaheim was eligible to be on the Angels post season roster last year, he replaced an injured guy)

Well if Bill Mueller wasn't on the 25-man roster last August 31st, then where was he? Was he acquired after August 31st?

And what about Francisco Rodriguez on Anaheim last year? Why was he playoff eligible?

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by sixfour210
Well if Bill Mueller wasn't on the 25-man roster last August 31st, then where was he? Was he acquired after August 31st?

And what about Francisco Rodriguez on Anaheim last year? Why was he playoff eligible?

Mueller was acquired after August 31. (He was acquired with Cash considerations from the Cubs for Jeff Verplancke on September 3rd - source MLB.com)

Rodriguez (as mentioned in my post above) was the replacement for an injured player who was playoff eligible, but still on the DL. (He replaced Steve Green).

[sixfour210]

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
Mueller was acquired after August 31. (He was acquired with Cash considerations from the Cubs for Jeff Verplancke on September 3rd - source MLB.com)

Rodriguez (as mentioned in my post above) was the replacement for an injured player who was playoff eligible, but still on the DL. (He replaced Steve Green).

Ah, thanks a lot.

[WLight]

Originally posted by Scott Vibert
..have the game set a flag for each player on the DL and major league rosters making them playoff eligible. Then during the playoffs create a new roster, that only guys with the playoff eligible flag can be placed on. Those players can be removed/replaced by anyone who also has the playoff eligible flag, but only between series.

First, I'm not sure how involved this would be to add, but I suspect it will take some work. Secondly, the problem of replacing players who go on the DL after the season. Maybe prompt the user to click on a new player to make him playoff eligible to replace the DL'ed playoff eligible guy. (Taking away the DL'ed guys eligibility)

Well, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, at the time the 'playoff-eligible' flags are set, our active rosters will be at the 40-man level. So including the DL we're talking somewhere between 30 to 45 guys that will carry the 'playoff-eligible' flag, which will be used to put together the playoff roster of 25 players. If one of those guys gets hurt I don't think it should be a problem to replace him, between series, using somebody who's already been flagged as 'playoff-eligible.'

I think all in all it's a workable plan, maybe on the Transactions screen it could replace the Trading Block in the layout (I have no idea what it would involve to code something like that), or go in the place of your regular season Active Roster and have the Active Roster bump over to where the Trading Block was in the layout (the Trading Block would still exist, it would just be hidden. Much like the Playoff Roster would be hidden, and therefore unable to be accessed, during the regular season and offseason). Actually, since for the duration of the playoffs you don't need to use the Active Roster at all, you could potentially hide that one too, and instead of going to the trouble of creating 'flags' for players scattered over your Active Roster, AAA team, and DL, create TWO rosters only used during the playoffs: the Playoff Eligible Roster and the Playoff Active Roster. They'd both be hidden during every part of the year except when the playoffs were being played (alternately they could display throughout the year if the Transactions screen changed to a 2x4 layout instead of 2x3, although they'd be totally useless at any time but during the playoffs of course), in which case the traditional Active Roster and Trading Block lists could be hidden to make room for the two Playoff rosters.

I'm not sure if that would even be easier to do than the 'flagging' thing, plus the flags have the benefit of being done automatically. How difficult would it be to have a Playoff Eligible Roster start displaying on (for instance) Sept 1st, have it automatically fill itself with all the players on your 40-person Active Roster and your DL, and then allow only players from that roster to be added to your Playoff Active Roster, and transactions only allowed between playoff series?

Now that I put it that way it sounds like a ridiculous amount of work. And it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of 'demotion' since you still have to trim your Active Roster back to 25.

Well, maybe not. You could construct it such that the September 40-man Active Roster becomes the Playoff Eligible Roster (with DL players added), and then you create a fresh Playoff Active Roster using that list. That way you don't have to demote anybody to cut your 40-man roster with September callups back to 25; they'd all stay on the Playoff Eligible Roster instead until the offseason. That might work. Then you have the problem of how the roster gets put back together at the beginning of the next year, though.


Man, reading over that it's even confusing to me and I just wrote it. I hope there's enough sense in there to offer some good ideas at least.

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by WLight
Well, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, at the time the 'playoff-eligible' flags are set, our active rosters will be at the 40-man level.

Actually what I was saying is it would be set on the last day before the 40 man rosters. So you get the 25 man roster on that day (Aug 31, after the games are simmed before the day advances, if you just say Aug 31, then the flag would be set at the start of the day and not allow you to make Aug 31 moves for playoff eligibility) and the DL on that day, automatically.

If you place a player with the flag on the DL you are given the option of using his flag on another player, or keeping it on that guy. (If you want to use that guy you can't replace him, by replacing him as playoff eligible, you are saying he won't be healthy enough to play) If you click yes you'd be taken to a list of the "flagless" guys and told to select one.



The 25 man roster wouldn't be touched and you will still have to deal with players refusing assignment before next season (which does occur now), but not during the playoffs (which doesn't happen). Essentially the postseason eligibles could show up in a different color (Green?) on the roster screens and a Post Season Roster would show up (possibly where the trading block is, since there is no trading in the postseason?). The Green players are eligible to be dragged into the postseason roster. The game's lineups/depth charts/pitching staff stuff would have to switch to view from the other area. (Obviously this bit of coding would be complex) You'd also have to ensure that the Playoff Rosters/Trading Block area was completely flushed (emptied) at the end of the postseason.

[mad0die]

Originally posted by WLight
I think all in all it's a workable plan, maybe on the Transactions screen it could replace the Trading Block in the layout (I have no idea what it would involve to code something like that)

That is a pretty good idea. Especially since you don't need the Trading Block after the trade deadline anyway. You could just populate the old Trading Block with 25 players of your choosing and this is now your team roster for the playoffs. Of course, an internal flag would need to be set to cause the depth chart, lineups and pitching screens grab their players from this Playoff Roster rather than the traditional Team Roster. Good idea, not sure how feasible, but I like it better than individual player flags.