Player Split Contact Rating Drops with No Scouting Update

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Gotta say, this doesn't feel too scandalous to me

It's completely inconsistent with how the game is designed to work without the normal scouting system, and it also means the user is potentially blind to whether players might be entering a period where their ratings might be improving or declining, starting with their split ratings. Why hide this in a setting mode designed to make everything 100% visible? It doesn't make much sense.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

When scouting is "turned off," it just means you're not using the game's normal scouting system. You still get scouting reports whenever player ratings change. They're simply issued by OSA and they are 100% accurate.

I haven't played with 100% accurate ratings for a long time. Forget what its even like. Can't imagine doing it again.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

It's completely inconsistent with how the game is designed to work without the normal scouting system, and it also means the user is potentially blind to whether players might be entering a period where their ratings might be improving or declining, starting with their split ratings. Why hide this in a setting mode designed to make everything 100% visible? It doesn't make much sense.

It is 100% visible. It didn't get by you!!! Playing each game out, how can you not know about it?

And if you were letting AI run the team on the field AI would know about it. And make decisions based on that.

I just don't see any basis for complaint.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It is 100% visible. It didn't get by you!!! Playing each game out, how can you not know about it?

Because if this happens to ANY other player in the league, unless I happen to have memorized every player's split ratings in every category, I will not know anything has changed when I'm reviewing player development history, ratings and scouting reports.

Maybe this doesn't matter to you, but instead of continually trying to raise objections, maybe it's time to let it go and let OOTP Developments respond. I'm not the only person in this thread who is requesting that split rating changes be properly recorded and shown in the game's scouting reports and history, which would be consistent with how the game records and handles all other rating changes.

If it doesn't matter to you or you don't care, that's fine. But it doesn't mean there isn't a logical inconsistency in the way the game is handling this, and it doesn't mean that other people don't have valid arguments or reasons for wanting to see this fixed.

There are many OOTP features, requested features or fixed and improvements that I don't use or are not important to me. But I stay out of those discussions because they don't pertain to me. If I don't have anything constructive to contribute, it's rude to keep trying to argue with people about something where I have no vested interest. I've been around these forums for many years, and I've seen people do that again and again. I'm asking you politely not to do that with me or my threads anymore.

[Izz]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

maybe it's time to let it go and let OOTP Developments respond.

See Matt's post earlier in the thread (post #20)

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Izz

See Matt's post earlier in the thread (post #20)

Yes, I saw that, and it explains that the game is doing this by design. But there are some of us who would like that changed or for there to be an option to have the game show all split rating changes in scouting reports.

I will submit it as a feature request if it hasn't been submitted yet, but think about it: if a player's hitting ability against either left-handed hitters or right-handed hitters worsened to the point that it was dramatically affecting his batting average and righty/lefty matchups, and it could be easily observed over time by any scout watching his games, don't you think scouts would note this in their reports? Real life scouting reports make a point of noting any player improvement or decline, plus righty vs. lefty strengths, weaknesses and effectiveness, so it's unrealistic for OOTP to handle things this way. And OOTP is only doing it this way because there's been an arbitrary decision not to include split rating changes in scouting reports.

I will take it up with OOTP Developments via a feature request, and hopefully we'll see an option to address this in the future.

[jcard]

I'm sorry for the late post, but there is something I am curious about. If I am following the arguments here, when you use the 1-10 scale an overall contact (or whatever) rating change of 79 to 71 would not be considered "important" enough to merit an update, but a drop from 71 to 70 would be deemed sufficiently important. A reported change is a lot less useful when you have no way of differentiating a meaningful change from a trivial one, or when there is no correlation between the magnitude of the change and whether or not the change is noted.

[Brad K]

Here's what the e mail says

"...and included a list of notable development changes. You can check the player development report for a complete list."


IOW, this is the "executive summary" based on who knows what. If I were the scout compiling such a summary I'd base it not just on the biggest changes but the importance of that player to the organization. Which might mean a big change in a AAA player that might result in his promotion might be more important in the Scout's thinking than a similar size change in a bench player or a small change in a star player.

Here's the screen shot.

[Brad K]

A concept of the game is the human GM will have imperfect knowledge of the skills of his players. For example there's a GMs own scout and the OOTP Scouting Association which will not necessarily give the same rating to a player. Additionally scouting can be set to be more accurate or less accurate.

Imperfect knowledge is characteristic of real life and this is what the game attempts to do. The degree can be customized by the player.

The OP plays with Scouting set to off and OOTP Scouting Association set to 100% accurate. This is probably a factor in his view that he should receive a scouting report for every change and not a "highlight" e mail from the Scout possibly as long as a month after the change occurred.

However the Scout's e mail is designed around an Executive Summary format on unknown criteria (similar to real life) and the format and frequency cannot be customized to match the preference of a player for 100% complete and accurate knowledge.

[CBeisbol]

But, does the player development report include changes in split ratings?

If so, point to BradK
If not, then I agree with Charlie Hough. There should be a record of all the player attributes that scouts give ratings on (so split contact ratings, defensive arm ratings, stolen base ratings, hold runner ratings) so the user can see those changes over time

Now, one might say, "Hey, CB, that's a lot of data to store". They'd be right. Maybe it's up to the user to export all that information (assuming it can be).

[ThePretender]

Pretty sure it only tracks the overall not the split. There are a lot of ratings that aren't tracked in the scouting report that should be IMO.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

But, does the player development report include changes in split ratings?

If so, point to BradK

But CB, you already know it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough
unless OOTP Developments deliberately coded the game so that split rating changes would not be tracked and logged the way that all other rating changes are.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Gotta say, this doesn't feel too scandalous to me

Just looking for an argument, I'd say.

[ThePretender]

Eh I think there's a good argument to be made that splits should be included in the scouting report for changes. That's not an unreasonable argument. If I know when overall contact drops I should know when the splits drop as well.

And if you're looking for real world scouting it's as simple as "player is dropping his shoulder early and as a result isn't making as good contact vs lefties".

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Pretty sure it only tracks the overall not the split. There are a lot of ratings that aren't tracked in the scouting report that should be IMO.

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Eh I think there's a good argument to be made that splits should be included in the scouting report for changes. That's not an unreasonable argument. If I know when overall contact drops I should know when the splits drop as well.

Agreed
It's not unreasonable to think that every rating should be tracked
And, as I mentioned just above, it's not unreasonable to that that might make the game too bulky.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Brad K

But CB, you already know it doesn't.

No, I don't
I hardly ever look at the player development report, or the email. Just the player ratings page and and the scouting tab

Just looking for an argument, I'd say.

I agree. It seems you are looking for an argument

I originally didn't see what the big deal was, but CH made a good and persuasive case.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

No, I don't
I hardly ever look at the player development report, or the email. Just the player ratings page and and the scouting tab

Hough's comment and your response as shown in post 32 above shows that you do know.

[Brad K]

I'm not willing to point the figure at OOTP for intentionally omitting information some people think is relevant. The reason is the method of calculating splits has changed.

Historical Splits is a relatively new thing. It started with OOTP 20, or maybe 19, I'm not sure. Anyway it appears now that vs L and vs R move individually and then the overall - which is NEVER used in any gameplay calculations - is is calculated for a general reference for the player.

Before Historical Splits the game had random splits which the generated based on the overall rating. Changes in the overall moved the splits.

So when the scouting report was devised splits really weren't relevant. They didn't change unless overall changed. It made sense to provide overall in the scouting reports.

I'm perfectly OK with the scouting report containing overall. After all, its an Executive Summary and someone who wants more than that has the information available. An AI field manager knows the splits have change. So does someone who plays out every game as Hough does.

What we have here is a legacy format designed for a previous version of the game. There are many things I'd prefer the developers to work on before spending any time updating this.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Hough's comment and your response as shown in post 32 above shows that you do know.

I don't know

Originally Posted by Brad K

the overall - which is NEVER used in any gameplay calculations

Strong argument for why changes in split ratings should be tracked in the scouting report (or somewhere).

Ratings changes for all player attributes should be tracked somehwere.

I'm perfectly OK with the scouting report containing overall. After all, its an Executive Summary and someone who wants more than that has the information available.

Where?

[Brad K]

The e mail is a monthly highlight summary of some of the changes since the previous report (one month ago). The ratings already changed by the time you get the report. The full current information on the player is always available, either at the time of the report or between reports. A person playing as field manager would notice changes while performing field manager functions. Charlie did.

The scouting e mail is a prompt for a player to look at the more detailed information if he wants to. Executive Summary. Get it?

Concerning history, what are you going to do with this information? Its a noisy channel. The rating might change due to TCR, pre peak aging, post peak aging, a scouting error, correction of a scouting error, recalc... I'm sure there are others.

A player has the option to keep all reports, one a year, or none of them. Clearly the options not to keep only one a year or none at all are provided because many players consider them a waste of disc space.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The e mail is a monthly highlight summary of some of the changes since the previous report (one month ago). The ratings already changed by the time you get the report. The full current information on the player is always available, either at the time of the report or between reports. A person playing as field manager would notice changes while performing field manager functions. Charlie did.

The scouting e mail is a prompt for a player to look at the more detailed information if he wants to. Executive Summary. Get it?

Concerning history, what are you going to do with this information? Its a noisy channel. The rating might change due to TCR, pre peak aging, post peak aging, a scouting error, correction of a scouting error, recalc... I'm sure there are others.

A player has the option to keep all reports, one a year, or none of them. Clearly the options not to keep only one a year or none at all are provided because many players consider them a waste of disc space.

Cool


Where is the information on changes to batting splits kept within the game?
Or it isn't?

Why is a history of changes to overall contact rating stored for a player's entire career even though
1) it is subject to the same noise that you listed above
2) isn't actually used in game play

I fully support Charlie Hough's request that that, and more, information be stored within the scouting report. That seems better than expecting the user to memorize that information for every player in the universe.


The way it is now, is like the scout sends you an email once a month highlighting your players' changes. And also there's a report on every player in the universe where they have scouted a lot of information on the player, but most of the information (split ratings, range, arm, error, pitch ratings, hold runner ratings, the breakdown of the speed rating, bunting ability, etc) is written in disappearing ink. That seems...not realistic.