Batting order?

[One Post Wonder]

I think I differ from most people I think in how I use the 3, 5, and 8 position (if playing as an NL team).

1. Highest obp with average speed at least to avoid the DP.
2. High obp - preferably most of his obp is with hits and he has some doubles.
3. Free swinging power hitter. I figure you can put a free swinger here since people won't pitch around him with the cleanup man coming up. The standard lineup bats this guy 5th.
4. Cleanup guy.
5. Multidimensional hitter with power. The guy most people would bat 3rd with a good obp. This is because the #5 hitter often leads off the 2nd inning.
6,7. Whatever is left over after the others.
8. A hitter who can draw a walk. He doesn't have to be good other than that. With the pitcher coming up, people might be tempted to pitch around him and I'm fine with my weak hitter getting walked. I'll swap the 6th, 7th guy to get a player who will walk here.

[jeffw3000]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I go...

1 - best speed on the team as long as they don't totally suck / ideally a high OBP
2 - good avoiding Ks, ideally a left-handed hitter (to "hit behind the runner"), try to get a middle infielder to keep them all from being at the bottom of the order
3 - best hitter for average
4 - best hitter for power
5 - 2nd best power hitter, although sometimes this can be a 2nd leadoff spot
6, 7 - next worst hitters
8 - usually the catcher, unless the catcher is a really good hitter (but they have to be exceptional, as the backup C will usually be pants)

Probably the most important thing if you're interested in stats is to get your best hitters early in the order because they'll have more plate appearances. If you're using a no-DH league the leadoff hitter has a kind of severe reduction in how much his power matters because not only is a homerun only worth 1 run if he leads off a game (whereas it can be worth a lot more down in the order), there's also a much, much greater chance that he'll come up with empty bases later in the game since he's hitting after a .150 hitter.

All of this being said, unless you do stupid, stupid things, like put your worst OPS player leadoff, your 2nd worst 2nd, and so on down the list, the difference between a bad lineup and a good one is like 1 win a year. So my main advice is, don't take too much time worrying about this particular thing except to immerse yourself in the game / keep your players happy / etc.

This would be pretty similar to what I like with a couple caviats.

1. Agree best speed and preferably high OBP. Speed less important if high OBP, but never use power guy unless lineup loaded with power.
2. Agree with, OBP can be plus here as well. Might use best hitter if team loaded behind them, and have other player to fit 3 or 4 spot. Ala Mike Trout.
3. Agree with best average, but also prefer XBH power at least if not HR power.
4 & 5. Agree with best power and second best power on team.
6. This is one I kind of diverge on. I would not call this player one of the 2 worst hitters. With a weak hitting team, would put the 2nd worst hitter 8 not 6. Think of 6 more like weak hitting 3. Try to get someone decent Avg and preferably some XBH power.
7. I agree is generally the worst hitter on the team for me.
8. I do not generally worry much about position, but tend to like guys with at least decent OBP skills. Speed can be a plus as well. If is really weak hitting team, will still likely have 2nd weakest hitter. If good OBP and good speed, might bat 9th instead of 8.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by RoteLaterne

Hey folks, how do you sort your batting order?
I mean, sorted by OPS, OBP? Any other idea?



4th-3rd-2nd-1st-5th-6th-7th-8th-9th


Something like that?
Any advice?

So I think this depends on what you want your team to be. Do you want to play the percentages and not use tactics much? Do you want to get heavy in tactics and not worry about percentages as much so the leadoff man has to be a base stealer and you don't care if Adam Dun is hitting 4th?

The answer really depends on strategy.

Traditional is pretty balanced you can do anything. I think it is more balanced than balanced

Traditional and Balanced are similar but balance puts some emphasis on speed and stealing. It isn't going to bunt as much.

Small ball think 80's One lumbering giant on first and 7 gnats for the other fielders. Speed kills. You are going to bunt and squeeze bunt a lot more

Saber Baserunning is important it will run the bases aggressively. You won't hardly ever steal because the setting is near never. Hit and run and bunting will be rare. If you want to order by OBP and OPS this is the strategy to use. High OBP at the top don't worry if they could get thrown out by a 5th grader if they try to steal but you will want some speed around with the aggressive baserunning. OPS through the middle.

Tactician is basically small ball without the bunting. So high contact good eye avoid K speedsters who can steal at top with power in the middle.

Unorthodox? Randomize it.

So traditional can use saber or Tactician type strategy

Small ball, Tacitian speed is critical up top. If you have to sacrifice OPB for speed it might be worth. Power in the middle. That type of manger doesn't ignore OPS and OBP but has a traditional idea of speed up top, power in the middle. Small ball means you will want some guys who can but too. Baserunning is still important for both.

Saber
Forget about bunt stats you can almost ignore stealing. Speed is important but you aren't going to sacrifice OBP for HRs. So you want guys with high OBP and baserunning ability at top. You can have moderate power if OPS is good in the middle.

[Biggio509]

Just my idea for different strategies.

Saber
1. Top OBP guy needs good base running
2. Second OBP guy needs good base running
3. Top OPS
4. Second OPS
5. Third OPS
6. 4th OPS
7. 3rd OBP
8. 4th OBP
9. 5th OBP

Balanced, small ball, Tac
1. Good OBP but needs to be fast and have good stealing good base running helps
2. Good OBP less emphasis on speed and stealing
3. Best OPS
4. Best power guy or best RBI guy
5. Next best power or RBI
6. 3rd best power/RBI
7. Best OBP that isn't in the top 2 slots
8. Worst hitter
9. Decent OBP need speed and stealing.

Saber to me builds around playing the percentages and just getting guys on base. Baserunning is important. To take from FM you want a fluid structure where guys are generalists.

The more traditional strategies are more rigid structure where batters have roles. You have the guys who get on and steal bases and the guys who knock them in. So you want a bunt guy in the 8 hole especially in the NL. You want a leadoff who can steal. 3 and 4 guys with power etc.

[Biggio509]

I flip between the two ideas of role players and generalist depending on who I can get or how my prospects turn out.

In perfect team I tend to go more sabre. The modern game just doesn't have as many specialists that don't have much power but can steal bases and field well or strike out a ton but hit 40 to 50 HRs a season. I have had success with a low rated Tony Gwynn playing lead off with a tactician strategy in '20. Still I often have to rely on historical cards to build a team like that in PT. I also learned there the strategy really makes a difference after getting a lot more gold/diamond cards I didn't change the setting but had a saber lineup. I didn't do well. Switch strategies and I improved a lot.

In my saves I like tactician and getting role players. Honestly I have always played this way.

[Mike D]

Build a team of dominant starters, then put your best slugger 1st to try and jump out to a quick lead and win a lot of 1-0 ballgames.

[USF]

I've always dominated in scoring runs in any project (solo or PT) or league I'm in and my method uses RC/27 (old school). Darn it might be because I'm always using the smallest park

I sort my players by RC/27. Then I use Slugging to determine 1-4. 1 with the lowest slugging and 4 with the highest slugging. I may adjust 1 & 2 based on stolen base ability and/or obpct.

I then use the same concept from 5-9 with 9th being always the lowest RC/27 player (usually a player you should look to upgrade unless they play 2B,SS,CF with proven stellar ZR defense) If it is close between 8-9, I usually put the stolen base player at 9 to create a nice speed combo back to 1 in the lineup.

5-6-7 are the next highest slugging players sorted by RC/27 again similar to 1-4.

I also try to avoid consecutive lefties vs. LHP if it all possible. I'm not as worried with consecutive righties vs. RHP.

[CBeisbol]

Don't know why I didn't think of this when this discussion was more fresh

https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-...eupAnalysis.py

It allows you to enter OBP and SLG to compare different lineups.

It doesn't consider handedness nor baserunning. Which are, of course, secondary and tertiary concerns to hitting ability.

[fuzzy_patters]

I tend to play matchups. The guys at the top of the order are the guys likely to get an extra crack at the opposing starter before he leaves. If he struggles with lefties, I’ll move some lefties up towards the top. If he struggles with power, I’ll move some power towards the top. If he has a low k/9, hr/9, and bb/9, I’ll move my contact hitters up and try to bury him with base hits. I also change who is in the lineup a bit based on my own pitchers. If I have a fly ball pitcher, I’ll put in my best defensive outfield but might try to squeeze a little more offense into the infield. I’ll do the opposite if it’s a ground ball pitcher.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by fuzzy_patters

I also change who is in the lineup a bit based on my own pitchers. If I have a fly ball pitcher, I’ll put in my best defensive outfield but might try to squeeze a little more offense into the infield. I’ll do the opposite if it’s a ground ball pitcher.

This is good

And don't forget, defense is less important behind high strike out pitchers.

[ThePretender]

I always find it interesting when so many people put their best speed threats in front of their top power hitters. Why risk all those cs advancing one base in front of the guys most likely to hit a 2B or HR to score the runners from 1B?

Unless your speedy guy is an elite hitter drop them down in the lineup. Speed is most valuable in front of the players who hit for less power. Your SB becomes more valuable in front of someone more likely to hit singles as opposed to HR.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by ThePretender

I always find it interesting when so many people put their best speed threats in front of their top power hitters. Why risk all those cs advancing one base in front of the guys most likely to hit a 2B or HR to score the runners from 1B?

Unless your speedy guy is an elite hitter drop them down in the lineup. Speed is most valuable in front of the players who hit for less power. Your SB becomes more valuable in front of someone more likely to hit singles as opposed to HR.

Because it seems older people are over-represented on this forum and that used to be the prevailing strategy

[CaptainTenille]

In OOTP it is also beneficial to bat a power hitter at leadoff for the 50 PP 'Leading Off in Style' achievement (not available in tournaments). That's an extra 500 PP for hitting 10 leadoff home runs in a season on top of any other benefits that it may have. If they have speed as well, bonus!

[Scottiedog43]

I generally careless about speed from the top of my batting order
I try to find good OBP for my lead off and #2 man.
Speed is a luxury...not necessary IMO.

Look for power in 3 and 4 hole.
After that just kinda start back over to with OBP.

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by jeffw3000

This would be pretty similar to what I like with a couple caviats.

1. Agree best speed and preferably high OBP. Speed less important if high OBP, but never use power guy unless lineup loaded with power.
2. Agree with, OBP can be plus here as well. Might use best hitter if team loaded behind them, and have other player to fit 3 or 4 spot. Ala Mike Trout.
3. Agree with best average, but also prefer XBH power at least if not HR power.
4 & 5. Agree with best power and second best power on team.
6. This is one I kind of diverge on. I would not call this player one of the 2 worst hitters. With a weak hitting team, would put the 2nd worst hitter 8 not 6. Think of 6 more like weak hitting 3. Try to get someone decent Avg and preferably some XBH power.
7. I agree is generally the worst hitter on the team for me.
8. I do not generally worry much about position, but tend to like guys with at least decent OBP skills. Speed can be a plus as well. If is really weak hitting team, will still likely have 2nd weakest hitter. If good OBP and good speed, might bat 9th instead of 8.

I'm more in line with this post by jeffw3000 and the post he was responding to by Syd Thrift. To me, this is a nice, balanced approach to building a quality lineup. This probably has a bit to do with the blessed lineup I have, but I will always place a better hitter in my 9th spot than the 7th or 8th spot. My theory behind that idea is that my top of the lineup guys (good hitters) are coming up after #9 and I'd like to give my guys in the 1st & 2nd spots an opportunity to move a runner on base and maybe even drive him home for a run. When I'm forced to play by those communist National League rules, I'll bat the pitcher in the 8th spot, usually.

I have a question for the people who replied saying that they build their lineups around sorting batters 1-9 based on RC/27 or something like what Biggio509 posted:

1. Top OBP guy needs good base running
2. Second OBP guy needs good base running
3. Top OPS
4. Second OPS
5. Third OPS
6. 4th OPS
7. 3rd OBP
8. 4th OBP
9. 5th OBP

Do you guys re-sort your lineups weekly to adjust for any possible changes in who has the #1 OPS, #2 OPS, etc.?

I'm very traditional with my lineup. If there aren't personnel changes, for the most part, my lineup in September is going to look like my lineup in April with only subtle variations. Maybe my 3-4-5 guys switch spots. My #1 & #9 hitters are fairly similar in terms of attributes, however, the better of the two will get the leadoff spot, of course. Unless there is some big reason why my #7 & #8 hitters will probably stay the way they are even if #8 is hitting better than #7.

[Antonin]

I keep it simple in each version of OOTP Baseball I play...I sort by OBP, and my batting order becomes best OBP, second best, etc.

As the season goes on I tweak things a little.

[Timofmars]

I take a look at the L/R ratings of the opposing SP. The higher the difference in his ability against LHB compared to RHB, the more likely I'll be to put weaker players in the lineup just for the side they hit from.

If the pitcher is more balanced vs L and R, I'll choose batters by considering just the batter's ability.

[Questdog]

1-2 hitters are the best OBP guys without power, but it is important that the #2 man not be prone to GDPs. So, whichever of the 2 is more likely to hit into a double play is the lead off man.

3-4-5 hitters for me are the best hitters on the team with some power. The #3 hitter is the one who has the lowest OBP of the 3, since the 4 and 5 spots are much more likely to lead off innings, unless he is a lot less of a hitter than the other two.

6-7-8 are aligned with the best base stealer of the 3 in the 7 hole and better hitter of the other two at #6, unless the two are close in talent and the lineup balances lefty/righty better the other way round.

In a non DH league, it is valuable to have a base stealer in the #7 hole. If there are 2 outs, he can attempt a steal and if caught, then the #8 hitter is leading off instead of the pitcher, which gives the pitcher a chance to not bat by bunting. If the #7 hitter is successful, the other team is likely to walk the #8 hitter and the pitcher can end the inning, so that the top of the order starts the next. In OOTP, it is also important to set this player's bunting in the player strategy setting all the way down, if you let the AI run the offense. Bunting with the #7 hitter in a non-DH league is utterly stupid, but the AI will do it.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Questdog

1-2 hitters are the best OBP guys without power, but it is important that the #2 man not be prone to GDPs. So, whichever of the 2 is more likely to hit into a double play is the lead off man.

3-4-5 hitters for me are the best hitters on the team with some power. The #3 hitter is the one who has the lowest OBP of the 3, since the 4 and 5 spots are much more likely to lead off innings, unless he is a lot less of a hitter than the other two.

6-7-8 are aligned with the best base stealer of the 3 in the 7 hole and better hitter of the other two at #6, unless the two are close in talent and the lineup balances lefty/righty better the other way round.

In a non DH league, it is valuable to have a base stealer in the #7 hole. If there are 2 outs, he can attempt a steal and if caught, then the #8 hitter is leading off instead of the pitcher, which gives the pitcher a chance to not bat by bunting. If the #7 hitter is successful, the other team is likely to walk the #8 hitter and the pitcher can end the inning, so that the top of the order starts the next. In OOTP, it is also important to set this player's bunting in the player strategy setting all the way down, if you let the AI run the offense. Bunting with the #7 hitter in a non-DH league is utterly stupid, but the AI will do it.

All that thought and then hitting your pitcher in front of your other best hitters?

Ok

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

All that thought and then hitting your pitcher in front of your other best hitters?

Ok

I play in historical fictional leagues, when batting the pitcher outside the 9 hole was just not done.

But, even in a modern league, I would not bat the pitcher out of the 9 hole, even is he was a better hitter than the #8 hitter. It causes more problems than it solves. For one thing, it brings the pitcher's spot to bat sooner in the late innings and will sometimes forces you to pinch-hit for a pitcher that you would otherwise be able to keep in the game. And getting on base in front of the top of the order is less important, to me, than having someone who can drive in a run up when the 5 hitter leads off an inning and gets on base. The #8 hitter is most likely to be the one batting with 2 outs and a runner on base.