Raising Defensive Efficiency

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Pitching factors in very heavily to Defensive Efficiency. As such, I do not trust it as an accurate measurement of my defensive prowess.

Don't think it's a good idea to throw out the baby with the bath water. When I've had a great defensive efficiency (around .750), it hasn't mattered who I've trotted out to the mound as they've put up stellar ERAs compared to a team with defensive efficiency at .700 or horrors... .650

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Don't think it's a good idea to throw out the baby with the bath water. When I've had a great defensive efficiency (around .750), it hasn't mattered who I've trotted out to the mound as they've put up stellar ERAs compared to a team with defensive efficiency at .700 or horrors... .650

I had 5 Great Gloves (1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF) but was last in the league in Def. Efficiency. My pitchers, which all had groundball or extreme groundball profiles, affected that specific rating too much. As such, I find other metrics, such as ZR, to be better indicators of defensive prowess.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

I had 5 Great Gloves (1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF) but was last in the league in Def. Efficiency. My pitchers, which all had groundball or extreme groundball profiles, affected that specific rating too much. As such, I find other metrics, such as ZR, to be better indicators of defensive prowess.

When you had the 5 Great Gloves and the last place Def Efficiency, where did your team's ERA rank in the league?

[SinkableSoup29]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

I had 5 Great Gloves (1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF) but was last in the league in Def. Efficiency. My pitchers, which all had groundball or extreme groundball profiles, affected that specific rating too much. As such, I find other metrics, such as ZR, to be better indicators of defensive prowess.

and what ranges do you use for ZR to determine anything?

[CrazyWR]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

I had 5 Great Gloves (1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF) but was last in the league in Def. Efficiency. My pitchers, which all had groundball or extreme groundball profiles, affected that specific rating too much. As such, I find other metrics, such as ZR, to be better indicators of defensive prowess.

it is possible to have fielders make more plays than average and still allow lots of balls to get through

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

When you had the 5 Great Gloves and the last place Def Efficiency, where did your team's ERA rank in the league?

It varied, but it was usually closer to the bottom than the top. There appeared to be much more direct correlations with BABIP and Opponent's Batting Average, where I was always dead last.

Originally Posted by CrazyWR

it is possible to have fielders make more plays than average and still allow lots of balls to get through

I believe that this is exactly why my defensive efficiency statistic is so terrible, even when my defense is well above average. With how the game has been built, groundball pitchers just simply allow too many balls to get through.

Originally Posted by SinkableSoup29

and what ranges do you use for ZR to determine anything?

Honestly, I probably rely on ratings so much that its more of a fault than an asset. As such, I don't necessarily pay close enough attention to any specific stat. I only use them to confirm that they can and do perform in rough accordance with their ratings.

ZR, specifically, would be particularly tricky for me to rely on because many of my players have seen ridiculously huge swings as this stat gets recomputed after the current season's completion. One season for Paul Blair in particular went from a surprising negative value to +20 or so. The difference between what it was and what it became makes me suspicious of both.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

It varied, but it was usually closer to the bottom than the top. There appeared to be much more direct correlations with BABIP and Opponent's Batting Average, where I was always dead last.

Defensive Efficiency and BABIP are nearly the same formula and it is suggested if you only have BABIP available, you can estimate defensive efficiency with (1-BABIP). One of the two adds one additional stat (either SH or SF, I don't recall without looking it up).

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Defensive Efficiency and BABIP are nearly the same formula and it is suggested if you only have BABIP available, you can estimate defensive efficiency with (1-BABIP). One of the two adds one additional stat (either SH or SF, I don't recall without looking it up).

And it has been authoritatively stated that the game mechanics ensure groundball pitchers have higher BABIPs, which is why I do not trust Defensive Efficiency as an effective metric in this game.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

And it has been authoritatively stated that the game mechanics ensure groundball pitchers have higher BABIPs, which is why I do not trust Defensive Efficiency as an effective metric in this game.

So you don’t trust BABIP either despite saying it has a more direct correlation?

It was also stated once that after looking at the code a dev did not think defense made a difference.

So far if my ERA is high and defensive efficiency is low, strengthening my defense has resulted in a lower ERA and higher defensive efficiency without fail. To each his own, it works with the changes I make.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

So you don’t trust BABIP either despite saying it has a more direct correlation?

I was trying (and failing) to say that the correlation that exists is between Defensive Efficiency and BABIP. Since BABIP is known to be disproportionally influenced by pitchers (specifically their profile), Defensive Efficiency is also influenced too heavily by pitchers.

I do believe that Defensive Efficiency is affected by and reflects more than just pitching, but the signal to noise ratio is far too poor for me to trust it as an authoritative gauge of my true defensive prowess.

[zrog2000]

I'm not even sure what the definition is for defensive efficiency and what it measures.

Advanced fielding stats really have a long way to go because so much of it is determined by positioning and not ability.

[<Pion>]

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