Should PP gain scale with league level?

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Sort of like top pro athletes who don't need the money but want to be paid more than the next guy out of respect?

Yes.😁

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

This isn't a game of skill.

Without physically playing out the games, you can't claim it's an achievement to be in the higher leagues. You can't claim that the differentiation is skill-based. That's ridiculous.

without a little skill and a lot of hard work you will never make it to the perfect league and stay there let alone win. A lot of the perfect and many of the Diamond cards are just over rated. The beta taught me it takes more then just cards to win. If you cannot see it takes a little more then just having a lot of Perfect and Diamond cards to win in the higher leagues then I guess we will have to agree to disagree my friend. 😁

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Without physically playing out the games, you can't claim it's an achievement to be in the higher leagues. You can't claim that the differentiation is skill-based. That's ridiculous.

So you think that the guys in the higher leagues have uniformly demonstrated no extra skill? That's the impression I'm getting, but I'm pretty sure you don't really believe that.

If that is a somewhat correct impression, then what in your opinion differentiates a good PT player vs. a bad one? By that I'm not referring to sportsmanship, but to results on the field and team management. There has to be something to this game, surely.

I'm guessing from this that you dislike just being a GM in your solo games. That you manage your games out. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm just wondering if you have the same thoughts regarding the 'GM only' side of OOTP.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Maddox

If you have a diamond hitter going up against a diamond pitcher will the results be that much different that a silver batter going up against a silver pitcher. Why should you get more in that case?

Because it is a higher level of competition. I'm not sure how to explain it better than that. It's not about how even the teams are. The struggle between a major league batter and pitcher might be just as even as me trying to strike out my nephew in his back yard, but that doesn't in any way make them the same thing. That's why I'm not making 3 million a year to pitch to my nephew.

There's this assumption, not by you specifically Maddox but in general, that guys at the higher levels are all going to be a bunch of fat cats who either won the lottery or bought their way to the top. Maybe I'm mistaken but I think there's more to the game than that. A higher league game might not be diamond vs. diamond. It might be a whale vs someone who has carefully assembled their squad and is platooning like hell, punching way above their weight.

It would have to be off-putting to that overachieving player to see that they'd have earned more if they had just taken it easy and stayed in the lower leagues.

Originally Posted by Maddox

Maybe I am just not enough of a cynic, but I don't see how it would be enjoyable to tank.

With any cheating method, it isn't about what you or I think is enjoyable. It's about if players will do it, and whether they will succeed if they do it. Players have already been caught tanking and the game has hardly kicked off yet. Some people like to cheat just to 'beat' whatever rules the dev has put in place. That's how they get their enjoyment.

Though I don't want this to be a discussion about cheating - IMO it would just be a side benefit of scaled rewards.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

Because it is a higher level of competition. I'm not sure how to explain it better than that. It's not about how even the teams are. The struggle between a major league batter and pitcher might be just as even as me trying to strike out my nephew in his back yard, but that doesn't in any way make them the same thing. That's why I'm not making 3 million a year to pitch to my nephew.

There's this assumption, not by you specifically Maddox but in general, that guys at the higher levels are all going to be a bunch of fat cats who either won the lottery or bought their way to the top. Maybe I'm mistaken but I think there's more to the game than that. A higher league game might not be diamond vs. diamond. It might be a whale vs someone who has carefully assembled their squad and is platooning like hell, punching way above their weight.

It would have to be off-putting to that overachieving player to see that they'd have earned more if they had just taken it easy and stayed in the lower leagues.



With any cheating method, it isn't about what you or I think is enjoyable. It's about if players will do it, and whether they will succeed if they do it. Players have already been caught tanking and the game has hardly kicked off yet. Some people like to cheat just to 'beat' whatever rules the dev has put in place. That's how they get their enjoyment.

Though I don't want this to be a discussion about cheating - IMO it would just be a side benefit of scaled rewards.

This is exactly how I feel. Thank you for putting it way more eloquently then I did or could. I feel it is not all Buying cards and the Very best should be rewarded as such.

[spleen1015]

You'll be playing the game by yourself if this were the case.

You guys are freaking nuts.

[NYY #23]

This whole logic just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You build up your team, reach the top league, and get more PP. And what exactly do you do with that extra PP? Either plug the few holes that you have by earning at a higher rate than other leagues, so nobody can touch you? Or you don't have a lot of holes on your team so you just accumulate PP until you see something like a perfect Johnny Bench and snatch him up even though you don't need him so nobody else can use him?

I have no problem with people spending money or whatever, but I really can't see how this isn't the rich getting richer.

[Morug]

Big no, but more PP achievements for lower league could help to attract or retaining some player who dont invest big amount of money or was not lucky with packs and helping their progression faster.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

This whole logic just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You build up your team, reach the top league, and get more PP. And what exactly do you do with that extra PP? Either plug the few holes that you have by earning at a higher rate than other leagues, so nobody can touch you? Or you don't have a lot of holes on your team so you just accumulate PP until you see something like a perfect Johnny Bench and snatch him up even though you don't need him so nobody else can use him?

I have no problem with people spending money or whatever, but I really can't see how this isn't the rich getting richer.

People keep saying the rich. What does that even mean? The best? In that case ,Yes the best who would also be in the best league would get better and play against the other better players. Is that not the point? Trying to become the best? This is a game of trying to win and go on to a better league. All some of us are trying to say is that it would be nice for them to get rewarded for Reaching that level of play. I do not understand this hostility of people calling other people ****ing nuts for stating their opinion. Why is anyone afraid of losing to other people or calling them Whales if they happen to build a good team like it was a sin or something. The world outside has turned very rude but I have never experienced the amount of animosity that this forum has seem to come to on this PT game. We never use to be like this. I am very sorry for being so ****ing nuts as to suggest a opinion that did not match your own. How ****ing rude of me Mr Spleen....

[Maddox]

You really want to drive away those players who want to try and compete without spending any money then just let them know that the whales who bought there monster teams will earn points than them.

I personally don't like the idea and this is coming from someone who will be promoted to Gold next week and will probably struggle very badly. But I don't feel I deserve more PP than the person just starting out in bronze league.

[One Post Wonder]

I'll get off the main topic a bit.

A little bit of the discussion here (not all by any means), and the back and forth that happens on many other threads is about the ambivalence people feel regarding PP buying.

You won't see anyone directly come out and attack the concept of buying PP, because that would be attacking OOTP Developments. Same thing with calling the game unfair in any way. But the concept of 'whales' slants nearly every conversation that goes on here. It's all about keeping those uppity rich people in check, and this causes some of the extra hostility here, too.

How many times have you seen posts like this:

"Hey everyone, check out H.P. Pennypacker over here with his 5 perfects and 10 diamonds, ho ho ho. (not that there's anything wrong with that of course)".

FWIW my own opinion is that I don't care about whales or buying pp. I personally don't buy pp because I don't feel I need to. I know for a fact that a well-ordered middle income team can compete with all but the most extreme whales. Zorro knows this as well, because he has done it with teams that are far worse than mine.

But the problem is that a lot of people don't seem to think that this is true, other than via postseason upsets.

Worse than that, it feels like there's a negative stigma building now towards anyone who has a team which is 'too good', or is doing well in the standings. That's terrible.

I hope this "whale ambivalence" is just temporary. Because if the perception remains that you can only do well in this game by buying pp or somehow cheesing, then PT is just not going to work out in the end. Even if that isn't the reality, the perception of something can still be just as bad.

This isn't an argument against anyone, and it's not really related to this specific thread at all. Just an observation.

Time for bed... goodnight all!

[Dogberry99]

I have the distinct feeling that most people arguing against this were all promoted and therefore have only experienced the top layer of this multi-tiered competitive system. They don't realize just how much larger the point haul from achievements can be at lower tiers against lesser competition.

Tanking is viable. Playing against lower competition gives the same team a lot more points. It may not be advisable for successful teams, but among the borderline teams, it should already be considered a lucrative option.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by Zorro

People keep saying the rich. What does that even mean? The best? In that case ,Yes the best who would also be in the best league would get better and play against the other better players. Is that not the point? Trying to become the best? This is a game of trying to win and go on to a better league. All some of us are trying to say is that it would be nice for them to get rewarded for Reaching that level of play. I do not understand this hostility of people calling other people ****ing nuts for stating their opinion. Why is anyone afraid of losing to other people or calling them Whales if they happen to build a good team like it was a sin or something. The world outside has turned very rude but I have never experienced the amount of animosity that this forum has seem to come to on this PT game. We never use to be like this. I am very sorry for being so ****ing nuts as to suggest a opinion that did not match your own. How ****ing rude of me Mr Spleen....

I hope I didn't come across as hostile, because that was not my intent. I have no problem with you sharing your opinion, even if we don't agree.

When I say rich I'm referring to the quality of the team, not how much they've spent or anything like that. And I'm being promoted Monday, even after a shaky season, so I would benefit from this idea. So I welcome the competition, have no fear of whales, or losing, but don't think I should be rewarded more than others because I'm in the top league.

Should I really get more for striking out the side on Monday than I did today even though it could be against the same exact team? Should every single achievement I get be worth more than the league below me?

Imagine being promoted into a division with a couple of "whales" in it. You miss out on promotion to a team that was in an easier conference. So after taking a beating all year and earning less they earn less again because they just missed the cut, falling further behind?

That doesn't seem like a good message to send to me. Not to mention what do the really good teams need more PP for? You can only use 25 players at a time.

[Mat]

Your observations make me shake my head.

[Mat]

Oh, and all American sports are based on a communist system!!

[Westheim]

Yeah, well, and I think the game should better reward if someone undertakes considerable effort!

So every entry of 1,000+ words in the dynasty forum should give 500 PP.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Orcin

No!


Commenting further would be redundant as this horse is still quite dead.

This. Case closed