Scoring Question - Page 2

RchW · 06-23-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msupoke

The error in that case only allowed the runners to advance. Therefore, once the walks were issued, the run was scored as it would have been had no error occurred. The error would not have been an out had he played it cleanly. As evidenced by the fact that it was a single and an error.

Segura scored on the error. The run was earned. You said a run produced from an error is never earned.

BigRed75 · 06-23-2016, 06:23 PM

I think the key here is that the run wasn't necessarily produced from the error. As was pointed out, the error only allowed the runner to advance, and didn't extend the inning. The second walk meant the inning would have played out exactly the same, error or not.

Of course, had the second walk not occurred, the run might not necessarily have scored (because the bases might have been left full), and the run would have been unearned. But the walk took away the effect of the error.

RchW · 06-23-2016, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

I think the key here is that the run wasn't necessarily produced from the error. As was pointed out, the error only allowed the runner to advance, and didn't extend the inning. The second walk meant the inning would have played out exactly the same, error or not.

Of course, had the second walk not occurred, the run might not necessarily have scored (because the bases might have been left full), and the run would have been unearned. But the walk took away the effect of the error.

The run scored on the base hit before the second walk. It scored as a direct result of the error. The batter made it to 3B on the same error (four base error). Not sure why this isn't clear to you from the game log.

BigRed75 · 06-23-2016, 08:08 PM

That's where you're wrong.

Yes, the run scored from the overthrow. But say that hadn't happened. What would have been the situation? Runners on 1st (Gosselin) and 3rd (Segura).

First walk happens: Batter to 1st, Gosselin to 2nd, Segura stays at 3rd. Bases loaded.
Second walk happens: Segura to home, Gosselin to 3rd, bases still loaded.

Therefore, the run would have scored anyway without the error. Therefore, the run is earned.

The key is that, unlike most errors, the overthrow wouldn't necessarily have resulted in an out and you can't assume that it would have.

RchW · 06-23-2016, 09:56 PM

I'm not arguing that the run should be unearned. I was responding to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msupoke

A run produced from an error is unearned no matter who made the error, so it does not count in the earned run average.

And posted yesterday's box score to show why that statement is wrong.

msupoke · 06-23-2016, 11:36 PM

Ok. You win on the technicality. The run would have scored regardless, so once the walks were issued, that run was deemed as having been earned and not produced by the error.

fcabanski · 06-25-2016, 03:44 PM

"I didn't realize scoring on whether a run was earned or not could depend on later plays, but what you said seems to make sense!"

To figure out which runs are earned and unearned, recreate the inning without the errors. The runs that score, without the errors, are earned. Give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

RchW · 06-25-2016, 03:55 PM

This short article has some info.

Earned run - BR Bullpen

06-23-2016, 06:23 PM	#22
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	I think the key here is that the run wasn't necessarily produced from the error. As was pointed out, the error only allowed the runner to advance, and didn't extend the inning. The second walk meant the inning would have played out exactly the same, error or not. Of course, had the second walk not occurred, the run might not necessarily have scored (because the bases might have been left full), and the run would have been unearned. But the walk took away the effect of the error. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

06-23-2016, 08:08 PM	#24
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	That's where you're wrong. Yes, the run scored from the overthrow. But say that hadn't happened. What would have been the situation? Runners on 1st (Gosselin) and 3rd (Segura). First walk happens: Batter to 1st, Gosselin to 2nd, Segura stays at 3rd. Bases loaded. Second walk happens: Segura to home, Gosselin to 3rd, bases still loaded. Therefore, the run would have scored anyway without the error. Therefore, the run is earned. The key is that, unlike most errors, the overthrow wouldn't necessarily have resulted in an out and you can't assume that it would have. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

06-25-2016, 03:55 PM	#28
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	This short article has some info. Earned run - BR Bullpen __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-23-2016, 11:36 PM	#26
msupoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 621	Ok. You win on the technicality. The run would have scored regardless, so once the walks were issued, that run was deemed as having been earned and not produced by the error.

06-25-2016, 03:44 PM	#27
fcabanski Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 170	"I didn't realize scoring on whether a run was earned or not could depend on later plays, but what you said seems to make sense!" To figure out which runs are earned and unearned, recreate the inning without the errors. The runs that score, without the errors, are earned. Give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.