Sportsmanship going too far?

[Cobra Mgr]

If you want to talk about going overboard on sportsmanship, talk about the Yanks getting their panties bunched up over Carlos Gomez. The man was fussing at himself for making an out & they think its wrong because Houston is up 9 runs. I echo Gomez's response............"SHADDUP!"

[monkeystyxx]

Maybe it's because I'm British, but I have zero problem with this at all. In fact, I kinda have a problem with the people who have a problem with it.

Obviously seeing Jeff Locke high-five a guy who just scored a home run off him would infuriate me (seeing Jeff Locke normally does that, whether he's given up a home run or not ). But these are kids of about 10-12 years old, right?

Let them enjoy the game, and their childhood, a bit before we start making them hate themselves for being bad at it.

My favourite players in baseball are always the ones who look like they're having the most fun, regardless of if they've just hit a grandslam, or popped up to the catcher. My absolute least favourite thing in baseball are when players are furious that the other team made a great play against them.

For example, in the now-viral clip where Fernandez catches a comebacker off Tulowitzki, Tulo's reaction is brilliant. "Did you catch that?!", then stands there in awe with half a smirk on his face.

Yasiel Puig would've broken his bat in fury, probably over Fernandez' face. Like the time he struck out looking against the Pirates and stood in/near the batters box for a full 30 seconds pounding his bat on the ground (it didn't break until right at the end, either, which probably pissed him off even more).

One of these players I like better than the other. We need more Tulos, Miggys, Fernandezes and Beltre/Andruses, and far fewer Puigs and Ortizes. If you can't have a bit of fun, why bother playing?

Ooooh right, the millions and millions of dollars thrown at you ever year. Fair enough.

The only time sportsmanship ever goes 'too far' is when you start not trying your best because you like the guy you're up against.

Another thing that annoys me is when a catcher gets hurt - like, obviously hurt - and the batter just stands there inspecting his bat. Dude, he may be on the other team but he's a damn human being, go see if he's ok you ignorant ****, he's laying on the floor right next to you.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Personally I hated trash talkers, outside of that I always seem to do well against them. We had one pitcher in our league that apparently had a greet curve. SO first game, he's bragging to every batter that they won't hit it, and he's sitting people down over and over. SO I get up, he does his same boast, first pitch, and CRACK!, its heading over the fence like a rocket. I distinctly remember saying "Your curve ball looks better 400 feet away.". He was an exception though, we rarely had trash talkers, not because of any ingrained respect or anything, more you'd get your head kicked in afterwards (hooray for small towns)

I think a little teasing and ribbing is necessary. I never did any trash-talking myself, mostly because I was not quick-witted enough. But I liked hearing it, even from opposing teams. It was a part of the game. What I am not a fan of, is prudishness. If I were the pitcher and trash-talking, and you said that to me after hitting that HR, I probably would have laughed.

As for the OP....eh it's little league. From the description I'm picturing some 4 or 6 year old doing this, and I'm like "hey sure whatever". I mean I can't picture myself doing that at that age, but I'm also a lot more competitive, maybe too much so. Now if the kid was 12 or something? Ya then I'd have a raised eyebrow.

I guess the issue I have with it, is this idea that respect has to be shown, to the point where it becomes a caricature. I'm not sure that coming out and giving an opponent a high-five after giving up a HR is the natural reaction of an athlete, even at the age of 12. I'm a bit worried that reaction was the product of so much goody-too-shoo propaganda from the league. Maybe I'm just a cynic. I dunno.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

Maybe it's because I'm British, but I have zero problem with this at all. In fact, I kinda have a problem with the people who have a problem with it.

Obviously seeing Jeff Locke high-five a guy who just scored a home run off him would infuriate me (seeing Jeff Locke normally does that, whether he's given up a home run or not ). But these are kids of about 10-12 years old, right?

Let them enjoy the game, and their childhood, a bit before we start making them hate themselves for being bad at it.

My favourite players in baseball are always the ones who look like they're having the most fun, regardless of if they've just hit a grandslam, or popped up to the catcher. My absolute least favourite thing in baseball are when players are furious that the other team made a great play against them.

For example, in the now-viral clip where Fernandez catches a comebacker off Tulowitzki, Tulo's reaction is brilliant. "Did you catch that?!", then stands there in awe with half a smirk on his face.

Yasiel Puig would've broken his bat in fury, probably over Fernandez' face. Like the time he struck out looking against the Pirates and stood in/near the batters box for a full 30 seconds pounding his bat on the ground (it didn't break until right at the end, either, which probably pissed him off even more).

One of these players I like better than the other. We need more Tulos, Miggys, Fernandezes and Beltre/Andruses, and far fewer Puigs and Ortizes. If you can't have a bit of fun, why bother playing?

Ooooh right, the millions and millions of dollars thrown at you ever year. Fair enough.

The only time sportsmanship ever goes 'too far' is when you start not trying your best because you like the guy you're up against.

Another thing that annoys me is when a catcher gets hurt - like, obviously hurt - and the batter just stands there inspecting his bat. Dude, he may be on the other team but he's a damn human being, go see if he's ok you ignorant ****, he's laying on the floor right next to you.

A person who displays that sort of fury, is just a big baby. Heh, true story:

I once accidentally started a fight while I was catching and broke a kid's hand taking a punch from him. The opposing batter got pissed off, Puig-style. I mean, he got seriously worked up. I just smiled and calmly said: "Dude, you struck out. Just STFU and go sit down." I still had my mask on, and he turned around and punched me in the face guard. I didn't react, other than to stand up straighter, with my chest out. Next thing I knew, the homeplate umpire grabbed me from behind, and pulled me back, in order to get between us. Both benches were yelling back-and-forth, while our third baseman and the batter got into it. It was quickly broken up by the coaches. The kid who threw the punch at me, not only had to wear a cast for a while, but was suspended by his school. I forgot to mention, it was a high school game. His coach kicked him off the team for the rest of the year. lol.

But yeah, getting angry or pissed off is far worse than giving an opponent a high five, no doubt about that. I'm just not a fan of the latter.

[Déjà Bru]

I'm all for sportsmanship but I agree, this was too much. If anything, it was disrespectful to his own teammates who I am sure wanted to win the game.

Here's a difference: Instead of a high-five (denoting celebration), a simple tip of the cap (showing respect). Anybody agree with my delineation?

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Omni

If I were the pitcher and trash-talking, and you said that to me after hitting that HR, I probably would have laughed.

Eh if that was the case I would have taken it that you can take the sauce as well as you dish it out. All good in my book.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I'm all for sportsmanship but I agree, this was too much. If anything, it was disrespectful to his own teammates who I am sure wanted to win the game.

Here's a difference: Instead of a high-five (denoting celebration), a simple tip of the cap (showing respect). Anybody agree with my delineation?

Yeah, tip of the cap. I actually wrote that earlier in the thread, when the forum gremlins stole it. Tipping the cap is fine, IMO. It's a dignified way of showing respect for your opponent.

[Omni]

Well, Japan won. Crazy, crazy game. Never seen that before. Especially not from Japan. They aren't known for their bats, but they hit three homeruns in a row; the second two by twins, and caught up to Pennsylvania after being down 11 - 2. Ended up winning 18 - 11. LOL. What a time.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I'm all for sportsmanship but I agree, this was too much. If anything, it was disrespectful to his own teammates who I am sure wanted to win the game.

Here's a difference: Instead of a high-five (denoting celebration), a simple tip of the cap (showing respect). Anybody agree with my delineation?

High-five and hat tipping don't have universal meanings around the world. Why are you asking for American-centric behaviors?

The "disrespectful to teammate" thing also isn't universal.

I mean, just read this passage of wikipedia definition of sportsmanship:

'Sportsmanship' is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

You can see how this can be interpreted in so many different ways, and celebrating the success of opponents can be intepret as sportsmanship.


Etiquette is always complicated, and often doesn't have to make sense. It's also always changing. I would recommend just doing whatever you feel comfortable doing, and observe the impact of what you do then adjust accordingly. That'd be sufficient. No need to start writing rules for others or complain about how others are not all behaving in the way you prefer.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

High-five and hat tipping don't have universal meanings around the world. Why are you asking for American-centric behaviors?

Good point, but I am an American and I believe what I described as proper behavior in this instance would be regarded as such by American teammates and opponents.

Come to think of it, though, OP did not describe which team was batting and which was pitching but regardless of who was who, it's incumbent upon all to understand the customs usually followed and deemed acceptable by the nationalities involved.

Another thing occurred to me, going back over this thread. CD and Cobra have it right; I overlooked that it's Little League and it's 12-year-olds. If I had that in mind in the first place, I don't think I would have commented here, with all due respect to OP.

[Cobra Mgr]

He's 12 yrs old. Again, 12. Let's just play devil's advocate & say it was wrong to hi 5 the hitter instead of tipping his cap. Are we going to criticize a pre-teen for not knowing that? How often does tipping cap etiquette come up in the daily life of a 6th grader?

Game are meant to be fun. Let's leave it that way until it becomes a means of making a living.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

High-five and hat tipping don't have universal meanings around the world. Why are you asking for American-centric behaviors?

The "disrespectful to teammate" thing also isn't universal.

I mean, just read this passage of wikipedia definition of sportsmanship:



You can see how this can be interpreted in so many different ways, and celebrating the success of opponents can be intepret as sportsmanship.


Etiquette is always complicated, and often doesn't have to make sense. It's also always changing. I would recommend just doing whatever you feel comfortable doing, and observe the impact of what you do then adjust accordingly. That'd be sufficient. No need to start writing rules for others or complain about how others are not all behaving in the way you prefer.

High-fives and tipping a cap is pretty universal in baseball. One thing the Japanese do that nobody else does, is taking bows. It is pretty universally known as a sign of respect in the Japanese culture, and they do it at the end of baseball games at all levels, in all international competitions. Likewise, the Japanese understand the western-style handshake, and tipping of caps. Not just Japanese, but other nationals as well.


Besides, this is a chance for the kids to get to know other people and other cultures. There was a neat commercial a few years ago, frosted flakes commercial, where it showed a Japanese kid in the middle of bowing to an American kid, who was likewise in the middle of extending his hand for a hands for a handshake. It as conveying the idea of a learning experience.

[Omni]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

He's 12 yrs old. Again, 12. Let's just play devil's advocate & say it was wrong to hi 5 the hitter instead of tipping his cap. Are we going to criticize a pre-teen for not knowing that? How often does tipping cap etiquette come up in the daily life of a 6th grader?

Game are meant to be fun. Let's leave it that way until it becomes a means of making a living.

Come on, give these kids more credit than that. Sure, 12 is very young. But it isn't like its the first homerun they ever saw. In fact, in order to get to the LLWS, they play and travel all over the place, literally all summer long. It's a long schedule, even at that age.