The problem now too big to ignore - playing out of place...

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

What kind of league is this, david?

Historical - every summer when school lets out I crank up the latest OOTP release and start at 1871. I act as commissioner and now GM Only. I set all the team's rosters and front offices. I let managers set Rotations and Lineups and let scouts choose draft picks. I have AI turned off for roster moves. I do the old make sure every team has X # of SPs, RPs, 3 catchers and 2 of every other position. I do the cutting and free agent signing.

Basically I am doing what I did in 1968 when I was 8 years old with the old strat-o-matic but using a PC instead of cards and not having to track my own stats in spiral notebooks anymore.

Another example of what I get frustrated with:

16 games in....

In 16 games, 2B Jack Burdock made 35 errors at 3B - in 82 Total Chances! a .573 Fielding Percentage. His ratings were: 51 at Second Base and 30 at Shortstop. NOT QUALIFIED TO PLAY 3B! Team had 2 players qualified at 3B and neither played a game at 3B.

Different team - this AI manager is brutal at making a lineup!

Catcher Nat Hicks, not qualified to play 1B, Only rating is at C, makes 20 errors in 7 games playing 1B, 20 errors in 73 chances at 1B! .726 fielding. Team has 2 players rated at 1B.... On that same team Jim Devlin, one of those 1B, qualified at 1B, played 6 games at 3B, and made 17 errors in 31 chances, a .474 pct. he is not qualified to play 3B. Roster has 2 players who are rated at 3B.... Same manager puts John Radcliff at SS - his ratings are a 34 at 3B and 40 at RF. But Manager puts him at SS over 2 other rated SS's. In 16 games he has 36 errors on 115 chances - a .687 pct.... Somehow this team is 6-10.

[pstrickert]

You're right. That makes no sense.

[David Watts]

Strange thing is, Devlin did play some 3B in real life. 1873 he played 6 game there, 30 chances, 11 errors, .633. 1874 he played 5 games there, 20 chances, 9 errors .550.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Strange thing is, Devlin did play some 3B in real life. 1873 he played 6 game there, 30 chances, 11 errors, .633. 1874 he played 5 games there, 20 chances, 9 errors .550.

And he played 6 games with 17 errors (.452) in 1873 and 16 games with 23 errors (.697) in 1874 in my league.

So is the game not showing us that Devlin IS rated at 3B those years???

Is the Manager AI reading Baseball Reference on the side?

Good stuff.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

And he played 6 games with 17 errors (.452) in 1873 and 16 games with 23 errors (.697) in 1874 in my league.

So is the game not showing us that Devlin IS rated at 3B those years???

Is the Manager AI reading Baseball Reference on the side?

Good stuff.

You should go into commish mode and go into his editor page to see if he has any rankings at 3B.

[jaysdailydose]

Also wondering what you have for the "Base Roles/Positions" setting set at, pictured here, if you don't mind, please?


^^^^ this setting here, right at bottom of the shot. I'd have drawn, but I'm ****e at it.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by jaysdailydose

Also wondering what you have for the "Base Roles/Positions" setting set at, pictured here, if you don't mind, please?

Attachment 403464
^^^^ this setting here, right at bottom of the shot. I'd have drawn, but I'm ****e at it.

I don't have these options(?)

[jaysdailydose]

You do, you just have league evolution off so they are in a different spot. 2nd screenshot, you have it set to base roles/positions off real life stats.

So, since the player in question has appeared at 3b (albeit briefly) the AI appears to be assuming competence, at least in my humble opinion.

[jaysdailydose]

I can speak from experience from my dynasty report league that if a team doesn't have a viable defensive option, they tend to go out and acquire one.

Are you trying to play replay style or your own "career?" Edit: it appears replay from your screenshots.

[jaysdailydose]

I would just switch "base roles and positions" from Real Life Stats to AI Evaluation.

Then, the AI sees that the player doesn't have a defensive rating at the position and tries to make a better choice. I've seen some "bad" defensive choices early in my dynasty, but I see the CPU trying to correct them in fairly quick fashion. Example: AI had an aging Carney Lansford as its main 3B option, with a player without a defensive rating at 3B also getting some time. By May, the team had made an acquisition to bring in a solid defensive third baseman, and traded from an area of strength to bring in the replacement. This allowed them to move Lansford to his highest-rated position (first base) and moved the solid third baseman immediately into their starting lineup. Same from the other team, they traded from an area of strength to tighten up a weakness, for a player they can and immediately began using.

Sorry for the multiple posts, but I was posting on my phone and it was hard for me to get my whole thought out. I'm guessing you are trying to play a style that is fairly similar to how real life played out, but with some variation?

[Dyzalot]

I have had similar issues as this when the AI is substituting for someone during a game. I have a few examples in my "Questionable AI decisions" thread including an example of the AI substituting an outfielder at CF where he isn't rated over the guy who is rated at center and is listed as the backup in the depth chart.

[jaysdailydose]

Is it a tapatalk error? It says there should be another post after mine but showing nothing.

Nope, ignored poster, carry on. Lol

[Questdog]

Just to note that this also happens in fictional play. Part of the problem is that players unrated for a position perform worse than any real player ever would. I would prefer that the AI never play a player where he is unrated. I would also prefer the AI never play a player at a position for which he is rated, but rated poorly, except in emergency situations. The floor defensive rating for considering a player to start at a position should get higher the further to the right you go on the defensive spectrum and by the time you get to shortstop, the AI should have heavy reservations about playing anyone lower than a 6 on a 1-10 scale.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by jaysdailydose

You do, you just have league evolution off so they are in a different spot. 2nd screenshot, you have it set to base roles/positions off real life stats.

So, since the player in question has appeared at 3b (albeit briefly) the AI appears to be assuming competence, at least in my humble opinion.

Not briefly - all 16 games of first 16 games of the season.....

[david limbaugh]

After a lot of research, digging and talking with others on forum (that is what is great about that!) I think game is doing a great job of doing what I asked it to do. I have roles set to real stats, not AI Eval. Even though a player's profile may not have a position with a rating, IF he actually played that position that year the game may put him there, but I don't have a clue what value it uses to calculate his fielding ability? :-)

[jaysdailydose]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

After a lot of research, digging and talking with others on forum (that is what is great about that!) I think game is doing a great job of doing what I asked it to do. I have roles set to real stats, not AI Eval. Even though a player's profile may not have a position with a rating, IF he actually played that position that year the game may put him there, but I don't have a clue what value it uses to calculate his fielding ability? :-)

His core defensive ratings such as arm, error, range, most likely with a severe penalty applied for playing a position he isn't truly "proficient" at.

It seems to me that if you use "Real Stats" to set the roles and positions, that you're going to have some things that appear weird. But, it also appears that on the whole, you are happy with how the rest works.

At least, in the scenario in question, we know that the player DID play third for some time in his MLB career, so its not just putting him there willy-nilly, it's just making a subpar decision.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by jaysdailydose

His core defensive ratings such as arm, error, range, most likely with a severe penalty applied for playing a position he isn't truly "proficient" at.

It seems to me that if you use "Real Stats" to set the roles and positions, that you're going to have some things that appear weird. But, it also appears that on the whole, you are happy with how the rest works.

At least, in the scenario in question, we know that the player DID play third for some time in his MLB career, so its not just putting him there willy-nilly, it's just making a subpar decision.

I guess the 'fix' I am looking for is to make sure if a player played a position 'in real life' that season, his profile's defensive ratings reflect that.....

[Trebro]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I guess the 'fix' I am looking for is to make sure if a player played a position 'in real life' that season, his profile's defensive ratings reflect that.....

The issue there is that since the AI doesn't have an "oh wait, he sucks at position X" factor, that would mean when you have a player who's been a little bit of an all-around guy (2b, 3b, 1b, RF, LF), but is only good at playing third base and right, they'll be playing him at 2b with a "2" rating if it feels the need.

There's so much complexity involved in the sim, it's a miracle there aren't MORE issues, ya know? It's easy to get frustrated, I can totally relate, but some things you just roll with to prevent bigger issues.

[jaysdailydose]

It's just an opinion, but I think part of it may have to do with you controlling all the roster moves.

If the AI had control, it would be attempting to improve at these positions, most likely. It sounds to me like since you have stripped it of chances to improve on its own, it is deploying the players in the way it feels most likely to win.

I'm opening up a game right now, just so I can get an editor look at Jim Devlin.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by ScottM816

The thread he posted has plenty.

2-3 by rchW none by DL. David post some screenshots of these players who have played out of position. I play many different styles in OOTP and yes players do play out of position on occasion, not nearly as much as in past versions and it's rare that I see it these days. Through 12 games in my HoB league i have yet to see more then 1 AI guy play out of position and that was because of injury.