Is the AI overvaluing Catchers in trade negotiations again? - Page 2

anthonywvalentine · 03-21-2015, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Hard to tell anything about that, since defensive ratings aren't listed which matter a ton, especially for catchers.

In my example, catcher ability was 6, arm was 8. Really nothing that special. Sure not worthy of a top 10 prospect or an all-star closer in his prime, and definitely not for both of them.

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonywvalentine

In my example, catcher ability was 6, arm was 8. Really nothing that special. Sure not worthy of a top 10 prospect or an all-star closer in his prime, and definitely not for both of them.

Hmm, that does seem quite odd

injury log · 03-21-2015, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Hard to tell anything about that, since defensive ratings aren't listed which matter a ton, especially for catchers.

And the outfielder's defense matters, contracts matter, is scouting on or off, positional scarcity should matter, etc, etc.

I'm not saying things are necessarily working optimally - I'll agree immediately with anyone who says the trade AI is imperfect, but I'd also add that coding a good trading AI is an almost impossibly complicated task. There are so many factors that need to be weighed, and such a variety of possible league situations, that there will probably always be a few trades that look weird.

I'll take a look at this catcher thing though.

anthonywvalentine · 03-22-2015, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

And the outfielder's defense matters, contracts matter, is scouting on or off, positional scarcity should matter, etc, etc.

I'm not saying things are necessarily working optimally - I'll agree immediately with anyone who says the trade AI is imperfect, but I'd also add that coding a good trading AI is an almost impossibly complicated task. There are so many factors that need to be weighed, and such a variety of possible league situations, that there will probably always be a few trades that look weird.

I'll take a look at this catcher thing though.

Regardless of the outfielders defense. Even if he projects to be a DH, for a rebuilding team why would you deal an all-star closer and a top prospect for a fringe major league catcher?

His defense was:
Range - 7
Error - 7
Arm - 7
RF - 8

Current ratings of 5-5-5-5-3 with potential of 7-7-8-7-5. Pretty good for someone who just turned 20 3 months ago.

The closer is first time arbitration eligible in the offseason.

Scouting was off.

The 27 year old catcher is a career .234 hitter in 346 pa. He is a "real team leader" tho.

megamanmatt · 03-22-2015, 02:46 PM

Honestly it's the top prospect that seems most wonky. An all star closer is nothing special. How much is he getting paid? Not sure if it factors in but RPs get overpriced really fast so may be in part trying to dump salary?

anthonywvalentine · 03-22-2015, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Honestly it's the top prospect that seems most wonky. An all star closer is nothing special. How much is he getting paid? Not sure if it factors in but RPs get overpriced really fast so may be in part trying to dump salary?

Min salary. Expected arbitration is 4.4 million. But for a rebuilding team, pick up a halfway decent prospect instead of a AAAA type catcher.

Habsfan18 · 03-23-2015, 01:27 PM

Noticed this in a post on the bugs report thread:

Quote:

Also the first week of the new season the White Sox traded Jeff Samardzija for 38 y/o catcher David Ross of the Cubs!

lejdot · 03-23-2015, 03:57 PM

Bad trade happen, human players make bad trades.

Ive dumped salary for my expansion team a few times for raw picks or worse but the plan was to save some salary to resign some of the young stars I had developing.

Id bet if I was a fan outside they would why the hell would you trade Jason Heyward and two prospects for Nomar Mazara?

Couldn't afford the 20m salary for one, two I needed a guy to develop and the prospects were 3-4 seasons away.

On the surface though, fan interest crashed and in the back of my mind I could hear the radio call in shows going bananas.

Mazara ended up hitting 284 with 22 hrs and 105 rbis and I got to resign two pitchers who blossomed that year.

If Mazara didnt develop, it could have been one of the worst deals I ever made, still could be in some ways.

Had to do it.

Long of the short is, some deals look bad but have to be made.

majesty95 · 03-23-2015, 04:23 PM

I think the biggest issue with Sandoval is that he was just signed this year. I'm not sure, is there is a way to restrict that?

I think the easiest (best) fix would be to allow the user to manually approve or reject trades (serving as a league trade committee). That would then allow everyone to get the "right" trades made for their league and remove a lot of the trading logic complaints.

Habsfan18 · 03-23-2015, 04:28 PM

That's actually a great idea.

In commissioner mode, you can have the ability to approve or reject AI trades.

I would love to see that implemented.

St Louis · 03-23-2015, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBarrett

You can never overvalue a Catcher.

Signed,
Bench, Molina, Fisk, Carter, Pudge

Name that Molina! Who we talkin about...

No but back to OP, I am actually pretty satisfied so far with the trades. I do like to change the trade frequency in settings to lower than default. Later in the season or more towards the trading deadline sometimes I will change it back to default frequency.

EDIT: OP means "Original Poster"... I forgot the forums is full of old people hah...

mdtwnkfey · 03-23-2015, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majesty95

I think the biggest issue with Sandoval is that he was just signed this year. I'm not sure, is there is a way to restrict that?

I think the easiest (best) fix would be to allow the user to manually approve or reject trades (serving as a league trade committee). That would then allow everyone to get the "right" trades made for their league and remove a lot of the trading logic complaints.

Yes. In last year's game in this year I've seen multiple trades that involve a player who one of the clubs had just signed the prior offseason, like the Sandoval trade discussed here. In my test league this year, I've already seen Victor Martinez traded (I know he was a Tiger last year, but he signed with them this past offseason as a FA) as well as Mark Reynolds, before I adjusted the trading AI to harder and a lower frequency.

pstrickert · 03-23-2015, 07:09 PM

FWIW, in the sims I ran during beta, I noticed that Victor Martinez would be traded more often than not.

Fyrestorm3 · 03-23-2015, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majesty95

I think the easiest (best) fix would be to allow the user to manually approve or reject trades (serving as a league trade committee). That would then allow everyone to get the "right" trades made for their league and remove a lot of the trading logic complaints.

I've been calling for that since OOTP12.

03-22-2015, 02:46 PM	#25
megamanmatt Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 2,416	Honestly it's the top prospect that seems most wonky. An all star closer is nothing special. How much is he getting paid? Not sure if it factors in but RPs get overpriced really fast so may be in part trying to dump salary? __________________ "The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes; The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil; the Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music; The Oakland Raiders moved to Los Angeles and then back to Oakland, no one in Los Angeles seemed to notice." Note to self: Princess Kenny was really off-putting.

03-23-2015, 04:23 PM	#29
majesty95 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,790	I think the biggest issue with Sandoval is that he was just signed this year. I'm not sure, is there is a way to restrict that? I think the easiest (best) fix would be to allow the user to manually approve or reject trades (serving as a league trade committee). That would then allow everyone to get the "right" trades made for their league and remove a lot of the trading logic complaints. __________________ College Football Sim League

03-23-2015, 03:57 PM	#28
lejdot Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 84	Bad trade happen, human players make bad trades. Ive dumped salary for my expansion team a few times for raw picks or worse but the plan was to save some salary to resign some of the young stars I had developing. Id bet if I was a fan outside they would why the hell would you trade Jason Heyward and two prospects for Nomar Mazara? Couldn't afford the 20m salary for one, two I needed a guy to develop and the prospects were 3-4 seasons away. On the surface though, fan interest crashed and in the back of my mind I could hear the radio call in shows going bananas. Mazara ended up hitting 284 with 22 hrs and 105 rbis and I got to resign two pitchers who blossomed that year. If Mazara didnt develop, it could have been one of the worst deals I ever made, still could be in some ways. Had to do it. Long of the short is, some deals look bad but have to be made.

03-23-2015, 04:28 PM	#30
Habsfan18 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,249	That's actually a great idea. In commissioner mode, you can have the ability to approve or reject AI trades. I would love to see that implemented.

03-23-2015, 07:09 PM	#33
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,137	FWIW, in the sims I ran during beta, I noticed that Victor Martinez would be traded more often than not.