False advertising...

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

You are absolutely right and I would never ever do it again that way. But if you read what people expect from a version 1 you get a lot of pressure. That is no excuse for doing that error (we did the decision), just an explanation why we did it.

We learned the lesson the hard way but we learned it and will handle if differently in the future.

Admit a mistake was made and move on with a lesson learned. I like that you share it with us and for most of us that is enough.

Seb, Don't let them get under your skin. I know it's tough...they've brought me down to their level on a number of occasions...they're even trying to pull Stinson in too! Leave the babbling back and forth to the rest of us...don't get pulled in. Just listen to peoples suggestions if they care to make them and if they don't just ignore.

I've read some peoples posts who stated some great things on why they wanted a refund. Those are the people who I'm willing to bet will be back one day. Others just have a personal vendetta against the game and don't give any reasons...they just want to start **** with people who are enjoying the game and call them out. To those people we all just need to ignore their comments. Or have your PR guy offer them a refund and then a ban. It wouldn't surprise me if a couple of them already have gotten a refund and are still just hanging around...it's gotten that bad around here.

In the end, this will be a faded memory once you get the game where you want it. So just keep programming away. Their is a lot of great content in each patch...keep 'em comin!

Remember that there are people who enjoy the game and that enjoyment continues to increase with each coming patch. But it's always the angry people who make the most noise.

[dejaqwho]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

The only thing in your list that is true is the FaceGen thing. I have no idea who added it as I don't write the PR and I don't manage the webpage. I always wrote that we "try to add FaceGen to the game but time and money (using FaceGen is very expensive) might be a problem". The rest of your list is personal taste. Scouting works as expected, maybe you don't like it. The GUI works as intended, maybe you don't like it.

@ traveler99:
Now a personal note from me to you (not talking for the FHM/OOTP team): you hate FHM, I get that. The game is bad, the developers are bad, the PR is bad, the communication is bad. For some reason you did not get the game refunded so here is the deal: I will give you a full refund for the game (even if the time period is over). You don't have to waste any more time for a ****ty game and can use that time for a better (hockey) manager game and you don't lose any money. I don't have to read your bitching anymore and concentrate on people who want to make the game more fun. As I see it, it is a Win-Win situation for both of us. Deal?

Yes sir, you may issue a refund to me. If "Scouting works as expected" then I am wasting time waiting, hoping for a fix to it. You may contact me to issue the refund.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'll put a few bucks towards that.

Me too. I will stand in support of this company and even though FHM isn't my favorite game, I still have all the faith in the world that this game will get good and will be better than anything else out there.

Biting off more than you can chew is an easy thing for someone to do early in release and is why we are where we are. I can accept an apology and explanation for it and know that this team will be better from it. There are some negative people here and they have a much louder voice than anyone else but please Sebastian, keep your head up and fingers coding.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by dejaqwho

Yes sir, you may issue a refund to me. If "Scouting works as expected" then I am wasting time waiting, hoping for a fix to it. You may contact me to issue the refund.

Didn't see anything in here that was directed at you.... Might be wrong though

@ traveler99:
Now a personal note from me to you (not talking for the FHM/OOTP team): you hate FHM, I get that. The game is bad, the developers are bad, the PR is bad, the communication is bad. For some reason you did not get the game refunded so here is the deal: I will give you a full refund for the game (even if the time period is over). You don't have to waste any more time for a ****ty game and can use that time for a better (hockey) manager game and you don't lose any money. I don't have to read your bitching anymore and concentrate on people who want to make the game more fun. As I see it, it is a Win-Win situation for both of us. Deal?

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by dejaqwho

Yes sir, you may issue a refund to me. If "Scouting works as expected" then I am wasting time waiting, hoping for a fix to it. You may contact me to issue the refund.

Two things: First, I do agree that if scouting is "working as intended" then that is an issue of concern to me. We're not able to scout individual players or our shortlist at all. Could you elaborate on your feelings on this topic, Sebastian?

Second, dejaqwho, why should the devs have to contact you to arrange a refund. Your sense of entitlement is stomach-turning. How about this, I'll pay for your refund, and you promise to go away and never come back here. Deal?

Now you'll reply, and your post will contain either the word "shill" or "fanboy". *Yawn* Come on with it.

[CatKnight]

Unless, of course, dejaqwho IS traveler.

Yeah traveler, God knows I have my issues with FHM, and I've been somewhat vocal about it (or more correctly fanboiz), but the last patch really took care of a lot of problems. It's stable, and if I don't really understand hockey enough to fully appreciate what's going on, at least if I press button X, then X happens.

Now, to me, it feels like when I started playing OOTP: I didn't know much about advanced roster rules, the GUI wasn't really giving me the information I wanted without alot of poking around, I wasn't quite sure what the game was doing behind the scenes, OOTP absolutely hated the computer I was using at the time ... but again - if I pressed X, then X happened.

I doubt I'll do much with this version. It's simply not fun for me right now. However, I most certainly give Sebastian and his team credit for turning a bad launch into a tolerable first release.

Accusing them of false advertising is simply not just, especially when they have been quite liberal about a refund policy to date. I do remember facegens were mentioned, but in the context Sebastian rebutted with: That it would be nice to have, but only as time and priorities allowed. You have to admit these caricatures are much better than either nothing at all, or characters with baseball caps.

I do not recall demos ever being promised. 'Nuf said.

Now then, Sebastian's given you a way out. If you're truly as unhappy as you're telling us, then get your refund. You'll not be the first person to have done so. Otherwise, if you ignore his offer and keep complaining anyway...

Troll.

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Two things: First, I do agree that if scouting is "working as intended" then that is an issue of concern to me. We're not able to scout individual players or our shortlist at all. Could you elaborate on your feelings on this topic, Sebastian?

Second, dejaqwho, why should the devs have to contact you to arrange a refund. Your sense of entitlement is stomach-turning. How about this, I'll pay for your refund, and you promise to go away and never come back here. Deal?

Now you'll reply, and your post will contain either the word "shill" or "fanboy". *Yawn* Come on with it.

Yes, you can shill out $40 to me, you stupid fanboy.

GRRRR RABBLE RABBLE LOUD ANGRY NOISES FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS CUSTOMER SMASH!!!!

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by dejaqwho

Yes sir, you may issue a refund to me. If "Scouting works as expected" then I am wasting time waiting, hoping for a fix to it. You may contact me to issue the refund.

We're really gonna miss you, champ. give me a hallelujah!


But yes, I must say (again) that I can't tell how my players are playing. Are they playing great, not so much, struggling, playing above/below standards etc. I just simply cannot tell for 95 percent of them.

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by CatKnight

Unless, of course, dejaqwho IS traveler.

Yeah traveler, God knows I have my issues with FHM, and I've been somewhat vocal about it (or more correctly fanboiz), but the last patch really took care of a lot of problems. It's stable, and if I don't really understand hockey enough to fully appreciate what's going on, at least if I press button X, then X happens.

Now, to me, it feels like when I started playing OOTP: I didn't know much about advanced roster rules, the GUI wasn't really giving me the information I wanted without alot of poking around, I wasn't quite sure what the game was doing behind the scenes, OOTP absolutely hated the computer I was using at the time ... but again - if I pressed X, then X happened.

I doubt I'll do much with this version. It's simply not fun for me right now. However, I most certainly give Sebastian and his team credit for turning a bad launch into a tolerable first release.

Accusing them of false advertising is simply not just, especially when they have been quite liberal about a refund policy to date. I do remember facegens were mentioned, but in the context Sebastian rebutted with: That it would be nice to have, but only as time and priorities allowed. You have to admit these caricatures are much better than either nothing at all, or characters with baseball caps.

I do not recall demos ever being promised. 'Nuf said.

Now then, Sebastian's given you a way out. If you're truly as unhappy as you're telling us, then get your refund. You'll not be the first person to have done so. Otherwise, if you ignore his offer and keep complaining anyway...

Troll.

Separated at birth, maybe?

Mainly, the last full patch I'm considering to be version 1.00. Yes, I know we're well into the game's release, but this is the version that I feel is worthy of being a commercial product. Not saying that it's good, but that it's come a damn long way in six weeks.

Does the game still have problems? Yes.

Can the internet page be construed as misleading? Yes (in terms of vocabulary, not in images or features [well, excluding FaceGen]).

Is this an example of false advertising and worthy of a class-action lawsuit? Nope. The only grounds one would really have is with FaceGen, and that's a very minor thing to begin with. It's not as if the PR director for OOTP just ripped a bunch of images and videos from NHL 14 and OOTP Baseball and plastered them onto the site. They didn't promise anything the game doesn't deliver (say, for example, if the site mentions a "Be A Player" Mode or in-depth 3D match engine) and the argument can be made that most features mentioned work to an extent the game, even if they exaggerate certain things (Challenging AI? Realistic player aging and development? In-depth tactics? Sorry, I had to hold back laughter).

The main thing I'm going to say is keep it up. I wish a perfect game would just land on my computer as well but these things take time. And especially with knee-jerk society that demands instant information and gratification, a lot of things can suffer enormous pressure that they never did before. At least you're not insufferable douchebags, like the guys that developed Aliens:CM and WarZ.

In before "OMG FANBOY".

[silvam14]

One thing that did catch my eye and I'd like a little more explanation is if Facegen a definite no for this version now?

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Two things: First, I do agree that if scouting is "working as intended" then that is an issue of concern to me. We're not able to scout individual players or our shortlist at all. Could you elaborate on your feelings on this topic, Sebastian?

How about this: just give us a way to completely shut off scouting??

[JustBlazin]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Two things: First, I do agree that if scouting is "working as intended" then that is an issue of concern to me. We're not able to scout individual players or our shortlist at all. Could you elaborate on your feelings on this topic, Sebastian?
.

totally agree with that you really need to be able to scout players and your shortlist and there was the player ratings that need to be put in you can only tell a few players that played well ie three starts and looking at game sheet but it just doesn't give you enough to go on.hard to tell if half your team played good or terrible.but I must say with the new patch it is much better and getting to where it needs to be this really should have been what was put out on the first day it was sold version 1.0

[Sebastien]

It is still on the FHM webpage check this out! So if they did not know it was in ...Now they do lol!

[Penfold75]

First of all I commend Sebastien for coming out and making an apology about the mistakes made in the initial release of the game. I take my hat off to anyone who is big enough to admit a mistake and say sorry.

I don't think the majority of people who have made negative comments have done so as 'they just want to start **** with people who are enjoying the game' as was suggested but the comments came from a sense of disappointment in the game that was initially delivered.

There comes a time when the negativity needs to stop and posting comments saying the game is unplayable or cr@p serve no purpose. Guys like Ciccarelli are posting brilliantly detailed posts about issues and hopefully this will assist the development team in ironing out a few things.

Its time to get behind the FHM team as they are trying to remedy the situation with hard work and patches.

So one again thanks Sebastien and keep up the good work.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Regarding Scouting: I just wanted to point out that it works as intended (no bugs, no crashes), not that it works like I would love to have it working.

Regarding FaceGen: As I wrote earlier, I will not promise it for version 1 as I simple can't (time and money still the main concerns). The big question for me is: will make FaceGen the game more enjoyable to play? Or, after adding them, is it still dull, now just with faces?

[lorreporre]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

First of all I commend Sebastien for coming out and making an apology about the mistakes made in the initial release of the game. I take my hat off to anyone who is big enough to admit a mistake and say sorry.

I don't think the majority of people who have made negative comments have done so as 'they just want to start **** with people who are enjoying the game' as was suggested but the comments came from a sense of disappointment in the game that was initially delivered.

There comes a time when the negativity needs to stop and posting comments saying the game is unplayable or cr@p serve no purpose. Guys like Ciccarelli are posting brilliantly detailed posts about issues and hopefully this will assist the development team in ironing out a few things.

Its time to get behind the FHM team as they are trying to remedy the situation with hard work and patches.

So one again thanks Sebastien and keep up the good work.

I agree with what you are saying, just wanted to add that had the apology come within a week after release, a lot of the negative **it we got from "....comments (that) came from a sense of disappointment in the game that was initially delivered. " would have be avoided ! I recall asking for an apologizing kind of message send to all buyers (an e-mail like they send us when the wrong update was release during beta) ...
Frustration is normal when you get your expectation high and get what we got !

Now i agree it's time to move on, and i hope i will be able to soon restart a game as i don't play as it is now ! (even though comments like the one Sebastian made "We are now in a state were we look to a) enable the options, that were disabled at release (in the options) and b) improve the game to be more fun." makes me think i won't for some times !

[Markus Heinsohn]

Oh man... I remember when I released OOTP 2006 with SI. It was filled with bugs and people hated the interface & new approach, and it was definitely not in a great shape. But, it was a start, and look where we are now

Give it some time guys. Sebastian, Malte & Jeff work as hard as they can, and eventually FHM will be as fully featured and stable as OOTP is. To expect that version one of FHM could 100% compare to version fourteen of OOTP is not that realistic, if you ask me. However, I think since the latest patch we've come a long way, and we are grateful for the help from the community. See, we all listen to your feeback (if it's reasonable and not just intended to flame us, obviously) , record it and then work it into the game eventually. That's our way of developing games

Having said that, it's time to close this thread IMO.