Ryan Braun Suspended - Page 2

Goody · 07-23-2013, 01:40 PM

Apples and Oranges. PED's in the modern era and spitballs in the day. The early guys get somewhat of a reprieve... but now? Just stupid.

soadeathdealer · 07-23-2013, 01:48 PM

Ban them and strip all awards money everything for the years they have proof of and ban from Hof and from being in staduims my opinion

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MorseMoose · 07-23-2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goody

Apples and Oranges. PED's in the modern era and spitballs in the day. The early guys get somewhat of a reprieve... but now? Just stupid.

I find spitballs to be a different kind of cheating than PEDs. That cheating is happening on the field in full view of everyone. It's like the batter that is outside of the batter's box. It's like the fielder that knows he traps the ball but pretends he caught it.

Charlie Hough · 07-23-2013, 02:00 PM

At what point will these *&%$^#*@&%^@ idiots realize that:

1. If you use PED's, there is a significant risk of being caught, and not merely from drug testing but also from investigations of clinics that provide 'supplements' and 'nutritional' products to athletes. In this era of investigative journalism, leaks, hacking, informants, whistle blowers, and cell phone technology, you simply don't have the privacy or secrecy that you think.

2. If you're caught or you've been using PEDs and there is major suspicion that you've been taking them, the best thing to do for your career, reputation, and future earnings is to admit that you've taken PEDs, apologize profusely, and get on with rebuilding your public image. Anything else will only tarnish your image permanently or lead to an embarrassing admission later. People have vastly more respect for those who admit to their mistakes right away and atone for them than those who persist in lying and covering up when there is mounting evidence that they're guilty.

Jason Moyer · 07-23-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goody

Apples and Oranges. PED's in the modern era and spitballs in the day. The early guys get somewhat of a reprieve... but now? Just stupid.

I'd rather face a pitcher taking steroids than one throwing a spit or scuff ball. Then again, AFAIK no one's died on the field because another player was taking an illegal supplement.

Cheating is cheating. I want to see this crap out of the game, which is the purpose of having a drug policy, but I'm not going to hold Ryan Braun to a higher standard than I would Babe Ruth, Gaylord Perry, or Willie Mays.

RchW · 07-23-2013, 02:29 PM

I'm still confused as to why Braun continues to deny using PED's by omitting the words from his statements. I'm more concerned about this than the actual cheating. Is it possible that part of the deal he made prevents the Brewers from terminating his contract?

The whole thing is bizarre.

CommishJoe · 07-23-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm still confused as to why Braun continues to deny using PED's by omitting the words from his statements. I'm more concerned about this than the actual cheating. Is it possible that part of the deal he made prevents the Brewers from terminating his contract?

The whole thing is bizarre.

So he can't be charged with perjury? Did he ever testify under oath that he didn't use?

Jason Moyer · 07-23-2013, 02:44 PM

I'd imagine he made a deal along the lines of "I'll voluntarily take a suspension if there's no mention of what I took".

Nate Shilaroa · 07-24-2013, 03:05 AM

MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

jazzrack · 07-24-2013, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Shilaroa

MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

because blowhard sports "reporters" didn't used to care, but now they think it's good for ratings or page views so now they do

Kobie · 07-24-2013, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Shilaroa

MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

I've been saying this for years, but moreso about the media enablers.

Steroids are an easy topic to write about and stir up their righteous indignation over the fact that an athlete *gasp* LIED TO PEOPLE. I mean, I'm in no way absolving Braun ... he did the crime, and he's apparently doing the time (plus 15 games). But the breathless wailings of the major columnists are getting tiresome. None of them has anything different to say than the next guy.

bocage44 · 07-24-2013, 01:35 PM

If we as a society were truly disgusted by transgressions committed by athletes, we'd stop supporting the NFL, MLB, NCAA, IOC, etc. But sports, especially in America, are huge entertainment franchises, and heaven knows, we like to be entertained. So, our communities pay for stadium complexes (pro, college, and high school) with the expectation that the teams that inhabit these structures will entertain the masses and, most importantly, stimulate the local economy.

And so the cycle begins. Communities put pressure on sports teams to be successful, and, in turn, the sports franchises make demands on political figures to make it easier for them to be profitiable. Sport has transcended the line of simple entertainment to become a both a political and ecomonic entity.

As we all know, where there's money to be made, there will always be people who bend rules, cheat, lie, steal, etc to get a bigger piece of the pie. It's a story that's as old as humanity itself.

The only way I see sweeping changes made for PED's in pro baseball is if the financial integrity of MLB becomes threatened. At this point, neither seems likely.

Le Grande Orange · 07-24-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocage44

The only way I see sweeping changes made for PED's in pro baseball is if the financial integrity of MLB becomes threatened.

PEDs are being addressed. There's a testing program and players are being suspended when caught. Not just in the majors but in the minors too. Braun got off the first time on a technicality, one which doesn't exist anymore since the rules regarding it were tightened.

You can't stop athletes from using PEDs if they are inclined to do so. But you can punish them when they are caught and make it increasingly risky for them to use PEDs. That is what is happening.

ukhotstove · 07-24-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Shilaroa

MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

Because one sport stood up, not sure which sport was the first to hit drug users but all sports have had to follow suit or you lose your money because you look like you support drug use.

Skipaway · 07-24-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Shilaroa

MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

It's just whatever direction the wind blows. People have different sentiment on what's right or wrong. You can obviously see that some cheating behaviors are accepted by athletes and the public in general, but not others.

What's acceptable or not changes with time, sometimes driven by people with agenda and became widely-acknowledged.

And most of these are just about perceptions. For example, NFL has a horrible and leaky substance test program. However, they started early, and acted as if they care, so people mostly leave NFL alone on this topic. MLB ignored this for the longest time, so the general perception is the worst. Right now MLB is trying to install a very harsh program to change the pubic perception.

Déjà Bru · 07-25-2013, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Right now MLB is trying to install a very harsh program to change the pubic perception.

Undoubtedly that is a major consideration. Hopefully there is a good deal of "let's clean up the game and keep it clean" in there too.

Goody · 07-25-2013, 07:08 PM

And now that Pay-Rod is linked to it, the public perception is swayed even more towards negative on the whole thing.

abailey3313 · 07-26-2013, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocage44

If we as a society were truly disgusted by transgressions committed by athletes, we'd stop supporting the NFL, MLB, NCAA, IOC, etc. But sports, especially in America, are huge entertainment franchises, and heaven knows, we like to be entertained. So, our communities pay for stadium complexes (pro, college, and high school) with the expectation that the teams that inhabit these structures will entertain the masses and, most importantly, stimulate the local economy.

Of course, "transgressions" aren't exclusive to the athlete community, they just end up getting more media attention. There are cheaters, liars, thieves, and outright criminals in every industry. To stop following the NFL because a tight end murdered someone is akin to never eating at Outback Steakhouse again because one of their line cooks murdered someone.

I don't think that people continue to watch and pour money into sports as entertainment suggests that anger over these things is insincere or our need for entertainment outweighs our need for moral and ethical purity. I just think if we were going to boycott everything associated with every bad person, there'd be nothing left. And by and large, most athletes don't commit "transgressions" on a large enough scale to warrant walking away. The Hernandezes and Brauns of the world are the exception, not the rule.

John Madden · 07-26-2013, 04:19 PM

I think new players should get a bump to their stats since they don't get to use the juice/greenies of the last 50-60 years.

/trollsohard

bocage44 · 07-26-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Of course, "transgressions" aren't exclusive to the athlete community, they just end up getting more media attention. There are cheaters, liars, thieves, and outright criminals in every industry. To stop following the NFL because a tight end murdered someone is akin to never eating at Outback Steakhouse again because one of their line cooks murdered someone.

I don't think that people continue to watch and pour money into sports as entertainment suggests that anger over these things is insincere or our need for entertainment outweighs our need for moral and ethical purity. I just think if we were going to boycott everything associated with every bad person, there'd be nothing left. And by and large, most athletes don't commit "transgressions" on a large enough scale to warrant walking away. The Hernandezes and Brauns of the world are the exception, not the rule.

Excellent points, and, for the most part I agree with you. When I wrote the initial post, I was coming from an angry point of view. Plus, in rereading my words, I was pretty blustery too....

For me, "trangressions" go beyond the nonesense that Braun has gotten himself mixed up in - it emcompasses everything from the way pro sports franchises have handled labor issues to the dubious nature with which the NCAA conducts itself to the way individual athletes behave and everything in between. Perhaps I'm just looking at things way too negatively.

I really thought what you stated in your second paragraph was very nicely stated. It certainly has given me pause to examine my own point of view.

07-23-2013, 01:48 PM	#22
soadeathdealer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: VA Posts: 2,152	Re: Ryan Braun Suspended Ban them and strip all awards money everything for the years they have proof of and ban from Hof and from being in staduims my opinion Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2 __________________ Jerseys and caps/logos and more http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...%20and%20caps/ Leagues OOTP POTD: Vermont/Co-Commish MTBL: League Closed The Show: Jacksonville Bombers RFTP : Braves/co-commish: League Closed HRBL: Commish: League Closed DDSPF WWPF- Miami CSFL- Tampa USFL: New Orleans DDSCF SNCFL: Florida/ JMU

07-23-2013, 02:29 PM	#26
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I'm still confused as to why Braun continues to deny using PED's by omitting the words from his statements. I'm more concerned about this than the actual cheating. Is it possible that part of the deal he made prevents the Brewers from terminating his contract? The whole thing is bizarre. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

07-23-2013, 02:44 PM	#28
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,088	I'd imagine he made a deal along the lines of "I'll voluntarily take a suspension if there's no mention of what I took". __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

07-23-2013, 01:40 PM	#21
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	Apples and Oranges. PED's in the modern era and spitballs in the day. The early guys get somewhat of a reprieve... but now? Just stupid.

07-23-2013, 02:00 PM	#24
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,642	At what point will these &%$^#@&%^@ idiots realize that: 1. If you use PED's, there is a significant risk of being caught, and not merely from drug testing but also from investigations of clinics that provide 'supplements' and 'nutritional' products to athletes. In this era of investigative journalism, leaks, hacking, informants, whistle blowers, and cell phone technology, you simply don't have the privacy or secrecy that you think. 2. If you're caught or you've been using PEDs and there is major suspicion that you've been taking them, the best thing to do for your career, reputation, and future earnings is to admit that you've taken PEDs, apologize profusely, and get on with rebuilding your public image. Anything else will only tarnish your image permanently or lead to an embarrassing admission later. People have vastly more respect for those who admit to their mistakes right away and atone for them than those who persist in lying and covering up when there is mounting evidence that they're guilty.

07-24-2013, 03:05 AM	#29
Nate Shilaroa Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	MLB has turned a blind eye to PEDs for so long, why are they so adamant about it now?

07-24-2013, 01:35 PM	#32
bocage44 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Springfield, VA Posts: 13	If we as a society were truly disgusted by transgressions committed by athletes, we'd stop supporting the NFL, MLB, NCAA, IOC, etc. But sports, especially in America, are huge entertainment franchises, and heaven knows, we like to be entertained. So, our communities pay for stadium complexes (pro, college, and high school) with the expectation that the teams that inhabit these structures will entertain the masses and, most importantly, stimulate the local economy. And so the cycle begins. Communities put pressure on sports teams to be successful, and, in turn, the sports franchises make demands on political figures to make it easier for them to be profitiable. Sport has transcended the line of simple entertainment to become a both a political and ecomonic entity. As we all know, where there's money to be made, there will always be people who bend rules, cheat, lie, steal, etc to get a bigger piece of the pie. It's a story that's as old as humanity itself. The only way I see sweeping changes made for PED's in pro baseball is if the financial integrity of MLB becomes threatened. At this point, neither seems likely.

07-25-2013, 07:08 PM	#37
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	And now that Pay-Rod is linked to it, the public perception is swayed even more towards negative on the whole thing.

07-26-2013, 04:19 PM	#39
John Madden Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 379 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I think new players should get a bump to their stats since they don't get to use the juice/greenies of the last 50-60 years. /trollsohard