Not a Good First Impression - Page 2

mpejkrm · 07-04-2013, 03:23 PM

I think it's also worth noting that the in-game gameplay of OOTP is NOT its strength. Remember, this is a baseball simulation, which gives us the deep statistical analysis and realistic minor leagues and transactions that baseball fanatics like myself want. While it HAS some gameplay, its strength is in the simulation and all the other options offered. The game is REALLY deep. When I want to play a game for great gameplay, I fire up my PS3 and play MLB The Show.

Now I'm not trying to bash the gameplay element at all, and it is a great option to have, but it does need work. The game is fantastic overall, and you can adjust any settings you need to get the gameplay to work.

RchW · 07-04-2013, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

I think it's also worth noting that the in-game gameplay of OOTP is NOT its strength. Remember, this is a baseball simulation, which gives us the deep statistical analysis and realistic minor leagues and transactions that baseball fanatics like myself want. While it HAS some gameplay, its strength is in the simulation and all the other options offered. The game is REALLY deep. When I want to play a game for great gameplay, I fire up my PS3 and play MLB The Show.

Now I'm not trying to bash the gameplay element at all, and it is a great option to have, but it does need work. The game is fantastic overall, and you can adjust any settings you need to get the gameplay to work.

Fair point but the complaint regarding WP rate is not a gameplay issue. Surprizingly many experienced baseball watchers get caught up in "knowing" what the correct rate of something should be and apply that flawed knowlege to a small sample of game play or simulation. It's very rare that any human picks up on rates of occurance that are low unless blindingly obvious. There was a long thread some time ago claiming too many IBB. Further analysis showed that the actual rate of real life IBB was wildly variant by league and by year but might actually be low in-game. It turned out that the AI logic was generating IBB at inappropriate times which gave the impression that IBB were high.

That's why it's important to challenge commentary that claims to "know" what the correct rate of something is without good data. It's not argumentative or fanboyism it's about getting it right.

JohnHoward · 07-04-2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

I think it's also worth noting that the in-game gameplay of OOTP is NOT its strength. Remember, this is a baseball simulation, which gives us the deep statistical analysis and realistic minor leagues and transactions that baseball fanatics like myself want. While it HAS some gameplay, its strength is in the simulation and all the other options offered. The game is REALLY deep. When I want to play a game for great gameplay, I fire up my PS3 and play MLB The Show.

Now I'm not trying to bash the gameplay element at all, and it is a great option to have, but it does need work. The game is fantastic overall, and you can adjust any settings you need to get the gameplay to work.

The gameplay element HAS improved significantly with each version. It is fantastic now and left Mogul behind years ago. But it isn't a video game, so I don't think the "gameplay" comparison is fair unless you are comparing to other text simulations.

mpejkrm · 07-04-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

The gameplay element HAS improved significantly with each version. It is fantastic now and left Mogul behind years ago. But it isn't a video game, so I don't think the "gameplay" comparison is fair unless you are comparing to other text simulations.

Obviously, yes.

The Wolf · 07-04-2013, 05:41 PM

On small sample size: some people want Yasiel Puig on this year's All-Star team. Some people like pitcher Jonathan Papelbon, on the other hand, are outraged at this due to the small sample size involved. Papelbon was quoted as saying "The guy’s got a month, I don’t even think he’s got a month in the big leagues. Just comparing him to this and that, and saying he’s going to make the All-Star team, that’s a joke to me."

Mancandy · 07-04-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

On small sample size: some people want Yasiel Puig on this year's All-Star team. Some people like pitcher Jonathan Papelbon, on the other hand, are outraged at this due to the small sample size involved. Papelbon was quoted as saying "The guy’s got a month, I don’t even think he’s got a month in the big leagues. Just comparing him to this and that, and saying he’s going to make the All-Star team, that’s a joke to me."

Nothing to do with small sample sizes, but I wonder how many people agreed with Papelbon when he said he should close the 2008 All-Star Game...over Mariano Rivera...in Yankee Stadium.

The Wolf · 07-04-2013, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Nothing to do with small sample sizes, but I wonder how many people agreed with Papelbon when he said he should close the 2008 All-Star Game...over Mariano Rivera...in Yankee Stadium.

Not me.

olivertheorem · 07-04-2013, 09:48 PM

Yasiel Puig:

28 GP, 116 PA, .440/.466/.743, 4 BB, 23 K

It's a stat line driven by a flukishly high BA. His cumulative minor-league slash line (over 262 PA, which still isn't all that much) of .328/.405/.611 implies to me that his MLB reality is more akin to .300/.370/.550, which would still be good. Still he's got to prove he can do it first.

[/rant]

RchW · 07-05-2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

Yasiel Puig:

28 GP, 116 PA, .440/.466/.743, 4 BB, 23 K

It's a stat line driven by a flukishly high BA. His cumulative minor-league slash line (over 262 PA, which still isn't all that much) of .328/.405/.611 implies to me that his MLB reality is more akin to .300/.370/.550, which would still be good. Still he's got to prove he can do it first.

[/rant]

Do what? It is mathematically certain he's batting 0.440. So he has proved it for the last 116 PA. As for making the AS Game? Of course he shouldn't but given that players make the team for all the wrong reasons anyway why should Puig be any different?

How is a batting average a fluke? Some individual hits or outs may be flukish ie hitting a rock or rockets into a glove but once recorded the numbers are indisputable. If hitting 0.440 is a fluke then some guy batting 0.150 in 116 PA is not in a slump.

olivertheorem · 07-05-2013, 08:55 PM

I guess I wasn't clear. Wouldn't be the first time. :P

What I meant is that as his BA is not at all likely to stay anywhere near that high, putting him in the AS game largely on the basis of a stat line fueled by an unsustainable BA would be a mistake.

By "he's got to prove he can do it first", I meant that he's (and anyone for that matter) should have to prove by their performance that they really are one of the best in the game before they make an AS game. Though, of course, that doesn't always happen.

And you're right, guys make the AS game for wrong reasons all the time (like being the best player on a lousy team), but one mistake doesn't mean they should make another.

The Wolf · 07-05-2013, 11:03 PM

Yasiel Puig: Rookie Season Simulation - Beyond the Box Score

07-04-2013, 03:23 PM	#21
mpejkrm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 951	I think it's also worth noting that the in-game gameplay of OOTP is NOT its strength. Remember, this is a baseball simulation, which gives us the deep statistical analysis and realistic minor leagues and transactions that baseball fanatics like myself want. While it HAS some gameplay, its strength is in the simulation and all the other options offered. The game is REALLY deep. When I want to play a game for great gameplay, I fire up my PS3 and play MLB The Show. Now I'm not trying to bash the gameplay element at all, and it is a great option to have, but it does need work. The game is fantastic overall, and you can adjust any settings you need to get the gameplay to work.

07-04-2013, 09:48 PM	#28
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	Yasiel Puig: 28 GP, 116 PA, .440/.466/.743, 4 BB, 23 K It's a stat line driven by a flukishly high BA. His cumulative minor-league slash line (over 262 PA, which still isn't all that much) of .328/.405/.611 implies to me that his MLB reality is more akin to .300/.370/.550, which would still be good. Still he's got to prove he can do it first. [/rant]

07-05-2013, 08:55 PM	#30
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	I guess I wasn't clear. Wouldn't be the first time. :P What I meant is that as his BA is not at all likely to stay anywhere near that high, putting him in the AS game largely on the basis of a stat line fueled by an unsustainable BA would be a mistake. By "he's got to prove he can do it first", I meant that he's (and anyone for that matter) should have to prove by their performance that they really are one of the best in the game before they make an AS game. Though, of course, that doesn't always happen. And you're right, guys make the AS game for wrong reasons all the time (like being the best player on a lousy team), but one mistake doesn't mean they should make another.