HS/College pitchers need to be fixed in 14!

[Lukas Berger]

Something I would like to see changed with HS/college pitchers in HS/college leages is to have a db setting where we can choose whether the game assigns pitchers to their spots in the rotation/bullpen based on current ability or potential ability.

Right now the pitchers seem to be assigned based on potential abilty, while hitters are assigned based on current skills. I'd prefer both to be assigned based on current skills, but it'd be even better to have the option to choose.

[CobaltJays]

If the development of additional pitches is too difficult to implement in OOTP right now, I'd like to see endurance overhauled instead as I think that could partially address the issues mentioned in this thread.

I realize that the game makes it possible for most pitchers to get to around 100 pitches as a starter, but in reality how far a pitcher can go in a game largely depends on how he's been used and whether he's been stretched out. I'd rather see a variable endurance rating that fluctuates based on usage, so that a guy who has primarily been a one-inning pitcher can generally only give you one inning, while a guy who has been used as a starter or long reliever will be able to give you multiple innings without much difficulty. There would still need to be some sort of maximum endurance rating for each pitcher, but the variable endurance rating would reflect what he's capable of presently.

Right now the game creates some very low endurance guys with a wide assortment of pitches. I never use those guys as starters, but in real life just about every pitcher has been a starter at some point and is capable of being stretched out. If the game had variable endurance ratings along with reasonably high maximum endurance ratings, you'd almost always be able to use the multi-pitch guys the game creates as starters.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

If the development of additional pitches is too difficult to implement in OOTP right now, I'd like to see endurance overhauled instead as I think that could partially address the issues mentioned in this thread.

I realize that the game makes it possible for most pitchers to get to around 100 pitches as a starter, but in reality how far a pitcher can go in a game largely depends on how he's been used and whether he's been stretched out. I'd rather see a variable endurance rating that fluctuates based on usage, so that a guy who has primarily been a one-inning pitcher can generally only give you one inning, while a guy who has been used as a starter or long reliever will be able to give you multiple innings without much difficulty. There would still need to be some sort of maximum endurance rating for each pitcher, but the variable endurance rating would reflect what he's capable of presently.

Right now the game creates some very low endurance guys with a wide assortment of pitches. I never use those guys as starters, but in real life just about every pitcher has been a starter at some point and is capable of being stretched out. If the game had variable endurance ratings along with reasonably high maximum endurance ratings, you'd almost always be able to use the multi-pitch guys the game creates as starters.

In real life, most pitchers, even relievers, have 3 pitches. But not all of them can be starters. I'd definitely like to see more guys who have 3 pitches, but like 2/8 endurance.

For the above comment, I'd like to see that as a current/potential split as well. If a guy has been used as a reliever, his endurance will fall. But the longer he's used as a starter, that stretches him out. Basically a 2/8 endurance should tire after like 15 pitches, a 3/8 should tire at like 25 pitches, and so on, where an 8/8 should be able to give you 115 or so on average.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

I thought one of the changes in player creation in OOTP 13 was to make sure that more pitchers were created with at least a mediocre third pitch that may or may not develop, so that the SP/RP distinction would be more about development and performance. I definitely don't see very many two-pitch stud "pure relievers" in my normal draft pools. Did that not affect player creation in feeder leagues for some reason?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

I thought one of the changes in player creation in OOTP 13 was to make sure that more pitchers were created with at least a mediocre third pitch that may or may not develop, so that the SP/RP distinction would be more about development and performance. I definitely don't see very many two-pitch stud "pure relievers" in my normal draft pools. Did that not affect player creation in feeder leagues for some reason?

Not mine. The feeder league starting pitchers were still dominantly two-pitch wonders.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

I thought one of the changes in player creation in OOTP 13 was to make sure that more pitchers were created with at least a mediocre third pitch that may or may not develop, so that the SP/RP distinction would be more about development and performance. I definitely don't see very many two-pitch stud "pure relievers" in my normal draft pools. Did that not affect player creation in feeder leagues for some reason?

I think that only affects non-feeder leagues.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think that only affects non-feeder leagues.

Yes. We are ONLY talking about HS/college feeder league starters.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

But Markus doesn't believe this is a real problem, so he won't fix the two-pitch starter problem, so we won't be able to use feeder leagues in 14.

Again.

@#$%^!!!!!

So why are you still talking about it? According to your posts in other threads, once Markus rules on a subject all discussion on said subject has to just automatically stop. Or does that only apply to others who are posting on the forum?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

So why are you still talking about it? According to your posts in other threads, once Markus rules on a subject all discussion on said subject has to just automatically stop. Or does that only apply to others who are posting on the forum?

Like the promotion/relegation thread, where I was just trying to help a guy out after Markus said it wasn't going to be in 14? You're full of it. Take your petty animosity elsewhere.

[The Wolf]

And FYI I've given up on a fix. We're just discussing the extent of the problem.

Which will continue.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Like the promotion/relegation thread, where I was just trying to help a guy out after Markus said it wasn't going to be in 14? You're full of it. Take your petty animosity elsewhere.

Actually, I was referencing the early ideas for OOTP 14 thread in which you repeatedly told people they weren't allowed to discuss anything involving graphics because Markus had already spoken as to how he thinks right now that he will implement it.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

Actually, I was referencing the early ideas for OOTP 14 thread in which you repeatedly told people they weren't allowed to discuss anything involving graphics because Markus had already spoken as to how he thinks right now that he will implement it.

The one in which we kept discussing graphics on and on and on? The one where the discussion of graphics was still going on when I moved over here? Right.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The one in which we kept discussing graphics on and on and on? The one where the discussion of graphics was still going on when I moved over here? Right.

I stopped bothering to read it after you polluted it for a page telling people that they weren't allowed to post about something because you didn't want them to. Sorry I didn't see the point where you let up and stopped trying to act like a moderator all over the forum as you are wont to do.

[jaxmagicman]

This is a pointless thread, Markus already said it was working as designed.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Actually, that is intentional... many HS / college pitchers are able to succeed there as starters with only two pitches. These will end up as relievers eventually when becoming pro.

Or where exactly is the problem?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

I stopped bothering to read it after you polluted it for a page telling people that they weren't allowed to post about something because you didn't want them to. Sorry I didn't see the point where you let up and stopped trying to act like a moderator all over the forum as you are wont to do.

As usual, you misread everything. We went on discussing it for pages.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

This is a pointless thread, Markus already said it was working as designed.

We're not arguing that. Since this is not a requested new feature but an ongoing problem, we were discussing its extent.

This is a real problem for stats-only leagues which only draw payers from feeder leagues. If you actually played that way, you'd realize why it's a problem.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Actually, that is intentional... many HS / college pitchers are able to succeed there as starters with only two pitches. These will end up as relievers eventually when becoming pro.

Or where exactly is the problem?

The problem is that there's a major difference between being able to succeed with two pitches and only knowing how to throw two pitches.

IMO, there should be more high school and college starting pitchers who have two good pitches and a third pitch that's poorly rated. Just because a kid is drafted out of high school on the strength of two good pitches doesn't mean he can't throw three or more pitches (changeup, cutter, slider, whatever). Read the Baseball America Prospect Handbook. There are LOTS of pitchers whose futures depend on how that third pitch improves. If it improves, they remain starters; if not, they shift to the bullpen. So my argument is that more of these two-pitch guys should have a third pitch that's rated very low (20, 25 or 30 on the 20-80 scale).

If this were the case, we would then have the option of trying to develop these pitchers as starters and if that third pitch doesn't improve after two or three years in the minors, we shift them to a relief role. This is much more realistic than what we have now with so many amateur pitchers going straight into bullpens and becoming elite closers because they only have two pitches.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

This is much more realistic than what we have now with so many amateur pitchers going straight into bullpens and becoming elite closers because they only have two pitches.

And that, Markus, is exactly the problem. The great majority of HS/college starters need to be able to go on to become minor league starters. Otherwise playing with only feeders for your player source means that you end up with lots of elite relievers and a shortage of decent starters, which screws up your league.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

This is a pointless thread, Markus already said it was working as designed.

I hate when people say this. Just because a particular feature is working "as designed" does not always mean it was implemented in the best manner from it's inception/conception. I can point to a number of features that fall into this category.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I hate when people say this. Just because a particular feature is working "as designed" does not always mean it was implemented in the best manner from it's inception/conception. I can point to a number of features that fall into this category.

This one fails in its intended purpose.