Drool Time: The (almost) Perfect Player

[Mr. Baseball]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

My dear sir, you wound me deeply. Have I not said this previously:

So, in my nobility, I am not in a position to trade either of these "mooses."

But, it would be so easy, wouldn't it, to expropriate either or both of these players and build myself a dynasty? Thereby finally leave the netherworld of a few games above or below .500, season after season?

Just imagine: Click, become commissioner. Click, open up a trade dialogue. Click, CLICK, give me these players for my 19th and 20th draft round picks.

CLICK, FORCE TRADE!

BWA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!

Uh, what just happened? Did I black out again?

I can't say I have any idea what you just said.

[Tycobbler]

Originally Posted by SandMan

I don't buy that this player was not just edited to these potentials. He went up for 12/4/14 CPE to 20/16/20 in one season then goes up to 20/20/20 the season after. Power goes up from 4 to 16, not very believable. I have never seen this happen to players and I have probably played thousands of seasons over the last 10 years.

Why am i hearing Metallica's Enter Sandman in my head?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Tycobbler

Why am i hearing Metallica's Enter Sandman in my head?

No idea. Personally I keep hearing "Master of Puppets."

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru
My dear sir, you wound me deeply. Have I not said this previously:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

I can't say I have any idea what you just said.

That's OK. I'm not sure what I said, either.

Originally Posted by SandMan

I don't buy that this player was not just edited to these potentials.

Sir, you really do wound me, but only slightly. I assure you that no doctoring has taken place as to his ratings.

[Déjà Bru]

Anyway, here's how he finished up the year (first screen image). Interestingly, he did not finish in the top 3 for MVP (second screen image). Here are those guys' stats for the season: Dueñas .333/47/148/83.4 VORP; Roy .317/51/152/79.4 VORP; Richardson .324/51/131/72.2 VORP

And no, SandMan, I have NOT monkeyed with the league totals or player creation modifiers either, before you even think of once again casting me into your bag of suspicion! ()

HOWEVER, as I just remembered as I was typing this (and thinking again about how Boucher did not even show for MVP), I do have this one set of dynamic league options turned on: More/less offense and More/less pitching (third screen image). Maybe this was a year for more offense and Mr. Boucher was somehow caught up in a groundswell of batting prowess?

[The Wolf]

Groundswell, yeah! That's the ticket!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Groundswell, yeah! That's the ticket!

It seems I have stirred up a groundswell of sarcasm in this thread!

[The Wolf]

There's lots of worse things that could have been stirred up.

[sc_superstar]

It's funny because you would think with those ratings his stats would be better. I see that and think perennial triple crown threat

It was a solid season and that walk rate is amazing, but nothing about the stats blows you away in an insane way. Worst part is he wants to be in a lineup spot that doesnt maximize his abilities

[dawg_gone]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

It's funny because you would think with those ratings his stats would be better. I see that and think perennial triple crown threat

It was a solid season and that walk rate is amazing, but nothing about the stats blows you away in an insane way. Worst part is he wants to be in a lineup spot that doesnt maximize his abilities

BB:K ration of 3:1... I'm guessing he doesn't have any bats around him in the order to protect him.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

It's funny because you would think with those ratings his stats would be better. I see that and think perennial triple crown threat

It was a solid season and that walk rate is amazing, but nothing about the stats blows you away in an insane way. Worst part is he wants to be in a lineup spot that doesnt maximize his abilities

Where would you bat him other than 3rd or 4th?

[sc_superstar]

2nd.

His high OBP and XBH tendancies make me want him as a number 2 hitter. Then the lower avg high power guys follow him. Thats assuming you have 2 guys who fall into that category.

His power numbers are good enough for a 3 hitter or even a 4 hitter on the right team. But as a middle bat he wont get the good pitches that a number two hitter sees

[madJ]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

2nd.

His high OBP and XBH tendancies make me want him as a number 2 hitter. Then the lower avg high power guys follow him. Thats assuming you have 2 guys who fall into that category.

His power numbers are good enough for a 3 hitter or even a 4 hitter on the right team. But as a middle bat he wont get the good pitches that a number two hitter sees

They won't give him different pitches just because he bats in another spot in the lineup. Would you give Miguel Cabrera different pitches if he batted 1st?

[damientheomen3]

I find SandMan's doubts troubling. Bru plays with scouting; perhaps it was a combination of scout error and a jump in potential (as in, he went from good to great and the scouts went from thinking him terrible to his actual greatness).

[sc_superstar]

Originally Posted by madJ

They won't give him different pitches just because he bats in another spot in the lineup. Would you give Miguel Cabrera different pitches if he batted 1st?

If its Austin Jackson hitting behind Cabrera instead of Prince Fielder, If im a pitcher/manager, Cabrera probably wouldnt see much of anything in the strike zone in that scenario

I know OOTP cant really replicate this, but lineup order is important

[madJ]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

If its Austin Jackson hitting behind Cabrera instead of Prince Fielder, If im a pitcher/manager, Cabrera probably wouldnt see much of anything in the strike zone in that scenario

I know OOTP cant really replicate this, but lineup order is important

And what does that have to do with the spot in the lineup? Cabrera could homer as #1, #4, #6 or even #9 hitter. My point is that you don't pitch according to the spot in the lineup, you pitch to the specific player. The only difference is that the lead off homer is always a solo shot. But after that there could be the #7, #8, and #9 batters on base giving the #1 batter (in our fictional scenario Miguel Cabrera) a chance for a grand slam. You will always have to decide if you pitch around that guy or not no matter in which spot he bats.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

I find SandMan's doubts troubling. Bru plays with scouting; perhaps it was a combination of scout error and a jump in potential (as in, he went from good to great and the scouts went from thinking him terrible to his actual greatness).

Thanks, guy. I wasn't bothered by his skepticism. He has a right to question, given what he says is his experience. No problem.

Just for giggles, however, I momentarily turned off scouting so that I could get Boucher's REAL ratings. (I am pleased to see that, for once, my own scout was a bit more accurate than OSA).

Then I assumed commissioner powers and looked into his profile. The numbers are shown below. Make of them what you will.

One thing that keeps occurring to me. This fellow is now rated as a monster, and his performance did substantially improve this past season, but it was NOT MVP material. Not even close. Take a look at those three other guys who won, placed, and showed in MVP voting (see my earlier post). They all had mega-seasons.

Now, again, I don't tinker with ratings. I don't monkey with league totals. Everything is at 1.000 default (even talent randomness is at the 100 default). But, I DO have the dynamic league setting turned on to occasionally simulate more/less batting/pitching.

Does anybody think this setting might have an effect like this that we've seen with this player? And on other players who had even better seasons?

[sc_superstar]

Originally Posted by madJ

And what does that have to do with the spot in the lineup? Cabrera could homer as #1, #4, #6 or even #9 hitter. My point is that you don't pitch according to the spot in the lineup, you pitch to the specific player. The only difference is that the lead off homer is always a solo shot. But after that there could be the #7, #8, and #9 batters on base giving the #1 batter (in our fictional scenario Miguel Cabrera) a chance for a grand slam. You will always have to decide if you pitch around that guy or not no matter in which spot he bats.

You tend to put players in certain spots, and where he hits and who hits around him makes a big difference. Go back to the tigers example.

Lets say you take a current lineup as used recently and changed Cabrera to #1 moving everyone down.

So you end with

Cabrera
Jackson
Dirks
Fielder

instead of

Jackson
Dirks
Cabrera
Fielder

Say its the 7th inning

Avila is hitting 8th and hits a leadoff double. Infante hitting 9th strikes out.

Cabrera would be an instant walk in this scenario either intenional or a severe pitch around. Cause Jackson is prone to strike outs or ground balls and you hope for a Strikeout/DP or a force at 2nd or 3rd and hopefullyyou face Dirks with 2 outs after that.

In the original lineup, I wouldnt walk Jackson for the same reasons as the example above and you cut down on a base runner now, and could end up with the same result.

Now lets assume the real lineup agian with Jackson at leadoff. Jackson doubles to lead off the inning, Dirks strikes out. Cabrera is up again with a runner on 2nd and 1 out. This time the manager probably wouldn't walk him like in the last scenario because if he walks, now you face Prince Fielder with 2 on and 1 out. And no manager would intentionally put themselves in that scenario, because you dont have a base open anymore so throwing borderline strikes isnt a good option, so you have 2 options. Throw them in for strikes and hope he doesnt blast one or take the chance that he could walk and now your in a bases loaded 1 out jam.

By giving this player from the thread the #2 slot in this scenario. He wont get pitched around he will get good pitches with the hopes that he doesnt connect and his high OBP and walks shows that he will work walks. So he gets good in the zone pitches and can smack XBH's. If he bombs 40 thats great if he doesnt he will still end up with a solid avg/rbi/run total.

But his spot at #2 to me is based upon a team having either 2 30+ HR power bats for the 3-4 spots or a 30+ HR power bat and another high avg guy/decent HR guy who may not walk as mush or is a bit slower, but is solid with RISP.

[tayloraj]

In addition to the points made by other posters, the higher in the order he's hitting, the more PAs he'll get over the course of a season...and it's never a bad idea to have your best hitters play the most (even if a 2 vs a 3 only gets somewhere around 30 more PA over the course of a season, in a tight race that could be decisive).

[damientheomen3]

It could very well be his ballpark. But given the stats, I'd imagine he just got fully developed this year. If his ratings remain, he's obviously a threat to perform up to those ratings (and really, aside from HRs and walk rate, I'd say he did).