Roster issue - Player on rehab

[JackRules1]

This happened to me with a starting pitcher. I went into the editor and removed his injury time and DL time. I was then able to get him back on the active roster. I probably should have then put him back on the DL but instead I traded him away.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yeah, but that is not possible technically the way the engine is set up.

Something to keep in mind when (if) the core game engine mechanics ever get rewritten.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yeah, but that is not possible technically the way the engine is set up.

So maybe change the engine?

[simcrazy]

I have to say this is the most significant issue I have heard about. It basically means that there is a very good chance that players will be dropped for no reason by AI teams. It would be better to not have the feature at all - can it be turned off? For someone who doesn't check transactions daily, you are almost definitely going to have regulars dropped for no reason during the season. I almost don't want to play anymore until OOTP13 because I want a "clean" league history.

Does anyone know if there is a way to turn off the rehab feature for all teams including computer-controlled teams?

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

So maybe change the engine?

So you are one of those who think that it's an easy task to do... Seriously do you do anything else than complaint at every little insignifiant details with incredibly over the top hyperbole...

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

So you are one of those who think that it's an easy task to do... Seriously do you do anything else than complaint at every little insignifiant details with incredibly over the top hyperbole...

Where did I say it's an "easy task"?
Where did I use "hyperbole"?
Do you think that players being released for no good reason is "insignificant"?

Thanks.

[SandMan]

No one has yet proved that the AI released any player due to injury while on a rehab assignment. Once it is proven that this has happened then it can be logged as a legitimate issue. Until then it is unknown what has or has not happened.

Also there is not a very high chance that a player that is on a rehab assignment will get injured again and placed on the minor league DL. The human controlled teams can decide not to use the rehab assignment so there is no chance that they will lose a player due to injury while on a rehab assignment. If the AI were to lose a player you can always go back and place the player back on the correct roster.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by SandMan

No one has yet proved that the AI released any player due to injury while on a rehab assignment. Once it is proven that this has happened then it can be logged as a legitimate issue. Until then it is unknown what has or has not happened.

Also there is not a very high chance that a player that is on a rehab assignment will get injured again and placed on the minor league DL. The human controlled teams can decide not to use the rehab assignment so there is no chance that they will lose a player due to injury while on a rehab assignment. If the AI were to lose a player you can always go back and place the player back on the correct roster.

If it happens to human players, why wouldn't it happen to AI teams if they use the feature?

There might not be a high chance, but over time, it will happen and it never should.

If the AI did it, you can put the player back when/if you notice. I don't check league transactions daily or much at all. I shouldn't have to.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

I have to say this is the most significant issue I have heard about. It basically means that there is a very good chance that players will be dropped for no reason by AI teams.

Not at all. A player would first have to be placed on a rehab assignment. Then get injured while on the assignment for a period longer that what his assignment is. This is not going to happen often at all. You make it sound like this will occur often by stating that there is a very good chance that players will be dropped for no reason by AI teams. This statement is false, it won't happen often.

Also, Markus has stated that this will be fixed in OOTP13. So your option, if you are so worried about this issue, is to stop playing OOTP12 and wait for the changes in OOTP13. Not everything can be fixed, but as long as Markus knows about it and will fix it in the future versions then that is acceptable.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

So you are one of those who think that it's an easy task to do... Seriously do you do anything else than complaint at every little insignifiant details with incredibly over the top hyperbole...

Is that rhetorical?

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by SandMan

Not at all. A player would first have to be placed on a rehab assignment. Then get injured while on the assignment for a period longer that what his assignment is. This is not going to happen often at all. You make it sound like this will occur often by stating that there is a very good chance that players will be dropped for no reason by AI teams. This statement is false, it won't happen often.

I would guess that that would happen at least a couple times per year, which is a couple times too many.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Is that rhetorical?

Apparently, as he had nothing to say to my response.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

I would guess that that would happen at least a couple times per year, which is a couple times too many.

There is no evidence to support that this would happen a couple of times a season. It may only happen once every 5 years or so. We don't know for sure. It is not a game stopper though. If you don't use the rehab option then there is a zero chance it will happen to you.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by SandMan

There is no evidence to support that this would happen a couple of times a season. It may only happen once every 5 years or so. We don't know for sure. It is not a game stopper though. If you don't use the rehab option then there is a zero chance it will happen to you.

I am worried more about it happening to the AI and noticing it immediately, which I wouldn't the way I play the game. And you're right, I don't have evidence of the frequency, that would require quite a bit of testing, but the fact that it could happen at all is not a good thing.

[Cooleyvol]

Seriously, this 'piggyback on someone else's gripe' gets old. Especially, even according to you, you don't even play in the fashion that can test any of these out.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Seriously, this 'piggyback on someone else's gripe' gets old. Especially, even according to you, you don't even play in the fashion that can test any of these out.

All I did was read the post and come to the conclusion that it is a significant problem. My ability or desire to test has nothing to do with it.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

I am worried more about it happening to the AI and noticing it immediately, which I wouldn't the way I play the game. And you're right, I don't have evidence of the frequency, that would require quite a bit of testing, but the fact that it could happen at all is not a good thing.

It is up to you and of course you could reply "I shouldn't have to look for problems" but looking at the transaction report either daily or once a week is at most a 1 to 2 minute task. Other than a few days over the course of a season (roster moves at end of spring training or Sept. call ups) there usually aren't many moves per day. It would not be difficult to skim for releases and with each name being a link one can quickly determine if a player was released because of injury during rehab.

Question is, is it important enough to you to take that 1 to 2 minutes (and on most days it would be more like 30 seconds or less) to try to find an example to prove your theory? A four to eight minute investment of time will add ~24 minutes to an hour to complete a season. I see you play the same way I do, IE one game at a time so it takes a couple of months to play a season. With that in mind IMHO adding an extra hour to complete a season to prove or disprove the issue is certainly worth it.


I'll make a deal with you. I will promise to check my transaction report once per month scanning for releases and then check to see if any of these players were released because of the rehab\injury issue. I will report here to the forum any players I find. I hope you will take the very small amount of time required to look over your transactions too to help figure out if there really is an issue or not.

If you are correct in your guess\hypothesis that it will happen at least a couple of times per year it shouldn't take long to show up.

Thought I'd take a look at my current game before submitting this reply. My current game is almost to the end of May. I looked over the full transaction report for both months and it took ~4 minutes. So we're talking about adding 2 minutes per month or 12 minutes per season. It is quite easy as the report shows Team name followed by "released" and then player name. So all you are looking for is

Chicago Cubs: released Joe Baseball

It is very easy to just skim the transaction descriptions following the team names as you go up or down the column.



FWIW over the course of April and May the cpu released no players at all. I released one. My guess is once on the "paid" roster the cpu isn't going to cut anyone. Instead it will go the waive\DFA route and move said player to the minors if he is not claimed. Haven't seen it yet but I think the only way a player might get released by the cpu other than career ending injury is "refusal of demotion" after being waived and DFA'd and the hypothetical "rehab\injury" issue which we haven't proven or disproved here.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Where did I say it's an "easy task"?
Where did I use "hyperbole"?
Do you think that players being released for no good reason is "insignificant"?

Thanks.

Oh come on, this is like the contract bug thread that PSU Colonel over inflated and then you piggybacked on it. I don't deny that it is a potential problem but there is ZERO evidence, just like the contract bug issue that anything negative happens at all.

For a problem to exist actual damage must occur. Prove it.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

All I did was read the post and come to the conclusion that it is a significant problem. My ability or desire to test has nothing to do with it.

To be a significant problem it should be proven to be so in the first place. You are the boy that cried WOLF. You don't even test it yourself to see if the issue even is a problem. It would not take long to go over the transactions to see if this problem is indeed a problem. Once proven to be a problem bring it up. Markus has said he will fix the problem, but there may not be anything that needs to be fixed. If you are so dissatisfied with game maybe you should wait for the next version. I feel though you would find things that aren't perfect in the next release and you will repeat the same hyperbole with the next version of the game.

[RchW]

Let's be clear on another thing. The only time this is a problem for a human player is if he/she allows the AI to put players on the DL. I don't allow the AI to do this. I do have it set up to kick me out of an extended sim if necessary to put someone on the DL.

I will monitor my league for instances of release due to a second injury.