Markus refund or Fix

[D-BacksJosh]

Originally Posted by injury log

The roster set doesn't get updated during the year because it's an absurd amount of work to do a roster set once in a year. The roster makers aren't going to do that work several times a year. Markus certainly has never "forbidden" an update; there are other reasons that will never happen.

not to mention dude is on vacation... pay 40 dollars and don't cry...

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by injury log

The roster set doesn't get updated during the year because it's an absurd amount of work to do a roster set once in a year. The roster makers aren't going to do that work several times a year. Markus certainly has never "forbidden" an update; there are other reasons that will never happen.

Honestly, if he had left that out the post itself wouldn't have been that bad. But to attack Markus personally for something he did not do?

/banned

[goingyard19]

I still play front page sports football w a buddy of mine. 96 version actually. Just saying.

[sdodd]

Originally Posted by RBPD5015

Henry,

Also where is it explain what OTHER FILES must be zipped and email to each owner that is not included with the standard league upload? ANOTHER MAJOR FLAW?


MAtt

That was more of a security thing that was implemented in previous versions and is a great feature... not flawed at all!!

[Bowtie]

.... But to attack Markus personally for something he did not do?

Imho, to accuse Markus - let alone anyone - of something they didn't do is barbaric. Markus and the OOTP team have been working their arses off trying to get the bugs with OOTP 12 fixed. In the first month since the official release of OOTP 12, there have been no less than 3 patches/updates and per Markus one major patch/update after he gets back from his very much deserved vacation.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

......

I'll now go on vacation for about two to three weeks. After that, work will start on a big free update for OOTP 12 which will include new features and improve existing ones!

Have fun!
The OOTP Developments Team

I can understand someone being highly disappointed/frustrated that a particular feature of this great game doesn't work the way it did in previous versions. But to come onto a forum and yell and demand and make false accusations the way the OP did is simply put barbaric.

My advice: take a few deep breaths and try to have more faith in the one man that does more for his customers than any other computer game developer that this particular bug - as well as the others - will get fixed. As someone already stated, submit a ticket about this issue. That is the best solution to getting this problem solved. And above all, please be nice to Markus and Andreas. Things of this nature get done quicker and better when both parties are at peace with each other.

[RBPD5015]

Listen guys it is funny how when people bash a company like EA or Bethesda or Microsoft they get a free pass. However since I make critical remarks about Markus I get killed. The thing is all you FANBOYS need to realize that most of you if you are a long time fan (me include), have spent more money on OOTP than any other series in gaming. So we deserve to have our voices heard.

I spoke with Fidel yesterday and he hooked me up big time and got me through most of my issues.

however issues like uploading a file bigger than 100 Megs through OOTP doesn't work is a FLAW plain and simple.

The managing of an online league can use a lot of work and I described a great for changing that early in this post.


Also everyone that got mad about the statement I made about the roster makers being unable to make a 2011 roster. I am sorry I read that in more than one thread. It was true however you could not find a starting day 2011 roster for OOTP 11.


Anyways I love the game, there are just some flaws where you have to use work arounds. I do not think that should be required for a game of this level.

Matt

[endgame]

Originally Posted by RBPD5015

Listen guys it is funny how when people bash a company like EA or Bethesda or Microsoft they get a free pass. However since I make critical remarks about Markus I get killed.

The big difference is those are companies, Markus is a man, trying to do the best he can with limited resources and often few thanks. Sometimes I'm at odds to say why he continues. He possesses either extremely thick skin, overwhelming passion, or decides what he wants to hear. Perhaps a little combination of all three, now and then, I'd suppose.

Originally Posted by RBPD5015

The thing is all you FANBOYS need to realize that most of you if you are a long time fan (me include), have spent more money on OOTP than any other series in gaming. So we deserve to have our voices heard.

There's the word, and I won't deny they exist, but to my surprise, none of them really showed up here and what little defense of the game that was offered was astonishingly coupled with the defense of your right to express your disappointment. The only real objection was with the tone or style you elected to use in doing so. Voices do need to be heard, but not rants, outright disrespect, and/or false assumptions, let alone threats. A $30 or $40 investment is not an entitlement, it's a transaction. Method is usually the key determinant of response.

Glad you love the game, and passion can be the mark of contribution, but demands - at this level of investment - betray desperation and ill-thought means to achieve desired results. Frustrations happen. At those points, I still favor the zen, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Fidel, as well as anyone, practices that, and as a result is he was able to assist.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by endgame

The big difference is those are companies, Markus is a man, trying to do the best he can with limited resources and often few thanks. Sometimes I'm at odds to say why he continues. He possesses either extremely thick skin, overwhelming passion, or decides what he wants to hear. Perhaps a little combination of all three, now and then, I'd suppose.

I've always wondered what type of income Markus would make if he just went to work in a corporation? I've got to believe he could make much more than he does with OOTP, couldn't he? I mean he is obviously both very skilled and creative.

Sure there are different pressures no matter what we do for a living but for Markus a, more than likely higher income, with benefits (is medicine socialized in Germany?) and more stability would, I think, look attractive at times. Anyone that has been around here for awhile knows he suffers stress that affects his health over OOTP. IMHO passion and desire to make the best baseball simulation in the world is what drives him. I hope those never die out as his efforts continue year to year to make my leisure time so much more enjoyable.

[Marines990]

Originally Posted by Henry

LOL, not from me. I've said my peace about being part of the solution instead of the problem, but some simply can't get thru a day without calling the game crap and accusing Markus of stealing their money, so I'm done. Both of my leagues are going fine (after a few adjustments and a few cups of coffee) and when the next patch comes out these issues should be gone. Their are workarounds - depends on whether your most interested in playing baseball, or more interested in bitching I guess.

Henry, I have repeatedly asked for assistance on the forums (no help so far) with my problem, even submitted a ticket a while ago, now I am waiting unitl Markus returns to makye get my online league working.

If you would like to volunteer 10-15 minutes of your time with me on AIM (OOTPGMTroy) maybe you can help me drink a cup of coffee and make 29 patient GM's happy.

[Andreas Raht]

Please, don't blame Markus for the online league functionality, since this is my part of the OOTP code since several versions now.
After reading the whole thread, taking a few deep breathes and deleting a few reply post drafts, I want to try to explain the situation of OOTP online league coding as good as I can:
- it's always the same argument from me: OOTP is a monster program and we're just a small team. We try our very best, but it's not easy and we're having a lot of problems with the USD/Euro exchange rate and with the fact that OOTP is a niche product and we do not sell enough copies to pay a bigger team. At the same time, we think we need to add some cool features every year because otherwise we'll lose sales (yeah I know people will respond now "you don't need to add new features, just improve the existing features and we'll gladly buy the next version" but I also see the posts already "no new features, I will skip this version").
- Setting up online leagues is not trivial, that is true. But IMO a future commish should read a little bit about how it all works. Take 30 minutes and read this please: OOTP Baseball Manual - OOTP Online Leagues
- the accountsdata files are like "passport files". We wanted to get rid of FTP account data saved in league files. Often league files are available to everyone on the net if they know the link. They could hack the files and extract the FTP account data. Most web spaces used for online leagues only have a single FTP account and no way to add additional accounts with limited permissions, so the FT account in the league file is the main account for the site. If people have the account password they can hack the whole site. That's why I introduced the accountsdata file- and if you want to be a commish, you should know how to handle this file. The GM has a button on his online league settings dialog to import that file so he does not need to copy the file to a certain folder.
- there are a bunch of great online leagues out there and a lot of OOTP owners play it online. So it's not like it does not work...
- of course we want to streamline the whole OOTP online league stuff. That's why I started the OOOL project. The goal is exactly what the OP asked for: make the whole process of setting up and running online leagues as easy as possible.
- RBPD5015, we hear you. Just please keep in mind that we're not a bunch of lazy bastards who try to steal your money. We're really working hard to make OOTP a great and fun game and to earn our living.

[TPinrose]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

- RBPD5015, we hear you. Just please keep in mind that we're not a bunch of lazy bastards who try to steal your money. We're really working hard to make OOTP a great and fun game and to earn our living.

I don't think very many believe you guys are lazy or stealing our money. Like most here, I love the game and appreciate the hard work. In fact, 12 is a success in my book because it has me enjoying solo leagues for the first time in many years.

Having said that, the customer in me would like to point out that OOOL was apparently released with little testing and currently does not seem to be working. For a game in 2011, the online componant needs to be trivial to use. OOOL will require more functionality, especially when it comes to tools for communication. I know you guys will get there eventually, but as with most things: sooner is better.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Please, don't blame Markus for the online league functionality, since this is my part of the OOTP code since several versions now.
After reading the whole thread, taking a few deep breathes and deleting a few reply post drafts, I want to try to explain the situation of OOTP online league coding as good as I can:
- it's always the same argument from me: OOTP is a monster program and we're just a small team. We try our very best, but it's not easy and we're having a lot of problems with the USD/Euro exchange rate and with the fact that OOTP is a niche product and we do not sell enough copies to pay a bigger team. At the same time, we think we need to add some cool features every year because otherwise we'll lose sales (yeah I know people will respond now "you don't need to add new features, just improve the existing features and we'll gladly buy the next version" but I also see the posts already "no new features, I will skip this version").
- Setting up online leagues is not trivial, that is true. But IMO a future commish should read a little bit about how it all works. Take 30 minutes and read this please: OOTP Baseball Manual - OOTP Online Leagues
- the accountsdata files are like "passport files". We wanted to get rid of FTP account data saved in league files. Often league files are available to everyone on the net if they know the link. They could hack the files and extract the FTP account data. Most web spaces used for online leagues only have a single FTP account and no way to add additional accounts with limited permissions, so the FT account in the league file is the main account for the site. If people have the account password they can hack the whole site. That's why I introduced the accountsdata file- and if you want to be a commish, you should know how to handle this file. The GM has a button on his online league settings dialog to import that file so he does not need to copy the file to a certain folder.
- there are a bunch of great online leagues out there and a lot of OOTP owners play it online. So it's not like it does not work...
- of course we want to streamline the whole OOTP online league stuff. That's why I started the OOOL project. The goal is exactly what the OP asked for: make the whole process of setting up and running online leagues as easy as possible.
- RBPD5015, we hear you. Just please keep in mind that we're not a bunch of lazy bastards who try to steal your money. We're really working hard to make OOTP a great and fun game and to earn our living.

Andreas, thanks for the post. I'm not an online commish but am in a league still struggling to get started. The issue I'm hearing about has to do with financials, scouting budgets being corrupted from file to file. I know some online league commissioners have posted tickets relating to this.

I will point our commissioner to your post here to see what you've said on the topic.

[Matter2003]

Originally Posted by endgame

Ooooo.....I'd been trying not pay much attention, but the mention of that game still hurts when I hear it. Man......glad I converted to baseball. That was a sad, sad, time. Oh, well.

Yeah, that was a rough one...

That was the game that made me vow never to buy another Sierra game ever again, and to this day I still haven't...

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I've always wondered what type of income Markus would make if he just went to work in a corporation? I've got to believe he could make much more than he does with OOTP, couldn't he? I mean he is obviously both very skilled and creative.

Sure there are different pressures no matter what we do for a living but for Markus a, more than likely higher income, with benefits (is medicine socialized in Germany?) and more stability would, I think, look attractive at times. Anyone that has been around here for awhile knows he suffers stress that affects his health over OOTP. IMHO passion and desire to make the best baseball simulation in the world is what drives him. I hope those never die out as his efforts continue year to year to make my leisure time so much more enjoyable.

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Please, don't blame Markus for the online league functionality, since this is my part of the OOTP code since several versions now.
. . .
- it's always the same argument from me: OOTP is a monster program and we're just a small team. We try our very best, but it's not easy and we're having a lot of problems with the USD/Euro exchange rate and with the fact that OOTP is a niche product and we do not sell enough copies to pay a bigger team.
. . .
- RBPD5015, we hear you. Just please keep in mind that we're not a bunch of lazy bastards who try to steal your money. We're really working hard to make OOTP a great and fun game and to earn our living.

Two remarkable posts.

[juanito89]

Originally Posted by RBPD5015

Markus,

I have been a fan and an owner of your game since 2003.
Every version, I have spent more money with you then any other video game. However I am so upset with this years version its pathetic.


All I want to do is run a small 2 to 6 person online league with a website through Fidel at Allsimbaseball. The problem I have had are endless and a month after the game I have played 0 MARK THAT ZERO GAMES. I really believe this game will go down in history with the likes of FBPRO 99, which got recalled.

I will give you my issues but they are so complicated I might not even be able to explain them. I also feel frustrated to even have to put them on paper, since the are so basic.


#1 So lets say I want to start a league with a friend I create a game and turn it into an online game. That part works.

#2 I then go through a 30 or 40 minute setup for all sim baseball. THANKS TO FIDEL AND FIDEL ONLY there is a 2 part youtube video to make that work to a point.

#3 Now I try and upload a league file but it keeps say it can not upload the file when I select update images????

#4 So I zip up the images and email those to him have him install them in the game.

#5 Now I upload my file to the website and tell my friend to download it and he does. He extracts it and tried to load the game. NOPE wont work. He needs a file that is listed no where called accountsdata_GMs.dat. I then have to email that file to him and explain to him where to place it in the game so he can load the league.

#6 he uploads his team to FTP and we are excited. I run the automater and it wont run because all 30 teams exports are not uploaded. NO **** this is a 2 person league. So I need to turn off this feature and rerun the automater.

#7 So we advance are are EXCITED AS HECK

#8 He goes to update the league file right from the game (BEST FEATURE) OOOPPS DOESNT work. Says no league found. This is not true the file is sitting on the website properly.

So I am stuck and waiting for FIDEL to help. Poor Fidel he is not even part of OOTP and he is the one fixing this mess.

Markus I am very disappointing I would rather you left this portion of the game out if you could not get it right. I do not need some WAR stat. Spend and make major functions of the game work properly. Unless you fix 2012 I will never spend a dime on OOTP games. I apologize if I seem rude, but the problem is I have been trying to play a good game of baseball since April.

#1 You forbid the roster makers from updating the 2011 game rosters so I had to wait for 2012

#2 2012 comes out and it is crap.


Give us what we deserve Markus!

Matt

WAR is a very useful stat.

[The Wolf]

Sigh. I come back from taking the hot redheaded nurse on a nice mini-vacation only to log back on to even more childishness.

The best part of this game is the members of the OOTP community who give of themselves and their time to make the game better - Gambo, Padresfan, Justafan, Jazzrack, you know their names. And the worst part is that portion of the user base that insists on behaving like a caged monkey and flings poo at the game.

[megamanmatt]

I really wish the mods would just close topics like this. OP gave his opinion, OOTP responded, and all that will follow now is pointless grandstanding. Stupid, pointless, and detrimental to the game.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

I really wish the mods would just close topics like this. OP gave his opinion, OOTP responded, and all that will follow now is pointless grandstanding. Stupid, pointless, and detrimental to the game.

I really wish that people would stop blaming OOTP for things that they shouldn't...and that this thread be closed.

[hank9481]

Douche of the Year Award.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by Dutchy

Why don't you just send a ticket?

FWIW, I submitted a ticket the day after the early release and I still haven't gotten a response.