Suggestion: Add rust for players who haven't gotten playing time in a while.

[neojonas]

I have my doubts this can be modeled correctly. And even when someone is "riding the bench" they are still doing batting practice, defensive drills, etc. So how rusty are they really getting?

[The Wolf]

How can it be done "correctly" when it can't be quantified?

[Bluenoser]

Personally I think people are over-reacting on the whole rust thing too much.

Markus announced the rehab feature for coming off the DL to get back in game shape and get rid of any rust.

Now all of a sudden it's like - on my god, Player X hasn't had an AB for 7 days, he's rusty, what am I going to do?

I absolutely agree with neojonas - it would be next to impossible to model it.

What factors would you use?

How would you quantify the amount of rust?

If, and that's a big if, it was modelled somehow, what would you do about the rust? Obviously you can't send a bench player to rehab just to get rid of rust? The answer is simple, give him playing time, something you can already do in OOTP.

Reallistically, it's your job, not the AI's, to make sure your players don't sit and get rusty. If you play games out, then it's easy to get guys playing time. If you just sim, then use the depth chart. Start every 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or whatever number of day.

I think the AI does a pretty good job of spreading out bullpen use. It may not always use the right pitcher for the right situation, but everybody gets work.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Personally I think people are over-reacting on the whole rust thing too much.

Markus announced the rehab feature for coming off the DL to get back in game shape and get rid of any rust.

Now all of a sudden it's like - on my god, Player X hasn't had an AB for 7 days, he's rusty, what am I going to do?

Actually I brought it up in the OOTP 11 forums before the rehab feature. I also didn't quantify how long it would take for a player to get rusty (because I don't know). Like you and other posters stated, this may be an impossible thing to model and therefore it isn't a good idea to add to the game. That is what this thread is to discuss and so far it seems like it wouldn't be worth it to add it to OOTP.

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Reallistically, it's your job, not the AI's, to make sure your players don't sit and get rusty. If you play games out, then it's easy to get guys playing time. If you just sim, then use the depth chart. Start every 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or whatever number of day.

It is only our job if the game models rust from inactivity. Otherwise there is no point to worry about a player getting rusty. Just like I wouldn't bench a player with 5 out of 5 contact if he bats .100 over 100 ABs (assuming scouting is off). The game doesn't model slumps (temporary invisible decrease in rating) so I know it was just bad luck that caused him to perform so poorly.


Some food for though. Here is a quote from a NY times article...

The Diamondbacks, like other teams, have worked out. They scheduled an intrasquad game for yesterday. But workouts and intrasquad games do not adequately replace games that count. ''I imagine there would be a certain amount of rust,'' Brenly said. ''The play may not be as sharp as it was leading up to the unexpected break.''
Tony La Russa, the St. Louis manager, said he thought it was a neutral situation for clubs because everybody has gone through the same thing. Speaking of the physical aspect of the players' time off, he said, ''What you gain in rest you lose in rust.''

Also, there is always debate over having time off just before the playoffs actually helps a team.

In any case, I'm not really arguing for a rust due to inactivity feature to be added to OOTP. I think enough doubt has been raised by yourself and others to show that unless some actual evidence can be obtained then it wouldn't be a good feature to add.

[robc]

Thanks to all the people participating in this discussion, both for and against the idea!

[RchW]

The only rust I like would be what's covering Adam Lind.

In 6 games since he came off the DL he is 9 for 21 4HR 10RBI and 4BB.

This also speaks to the poster who was complaining about hot streaks continuing after an injury. In the 12 games before he got injured Lind was 21 for 46 6HR 15RBI.

[BusterKing]

Rust feature for benched players is ok if it's optional in the settings which I would never use.

Can't say that I agree with that concept. They are pros ready for action... suppose to be anyways.

[The Wolf]

Has anyone considered pinch hitters? Players like Gates Brown and Lenny Harris? Guys who are designed to have one at-bat irregularly? There's another huge problem with this.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by robc

Thanks to all the people participating in this discussion, both for and against the idea!

You're welcome. I may sound opposed to it, but actually I'm just really skeptical that there would ever be any way to do this accurately and that the game would become a less accurate simulation by adding it. Perhaps one day a study will be available that would allow accurate modeling to be done.

[markprior22]

How do we quantify rust coming out of ST? Maybe that is something that should be removed or presented as an option.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by markprior22

How do we quantify rust coming out of ST? Maybe that is something that should be removed or presented as an option.

We didn't and don't, and we don't know how Markus did it. He might have a basis for it, and he might conceivably have pulled numbers out of the air. We'll never know unless he chooses to tell us.

[robc]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Has anyone considered pinch hitters? Players like Gates Brown and Lenny Harris? Guys who are designed to have one at-bat irregularly? There's another huge problem with this.

I believe OOTP penalizes pinch hitters. Not because of rust but I guess historically batters fair worse as pinch hitters then when they are in the lineup. See: Baseball Prospectus | No Bang Off the Bench?

Edit: I wonder if the pinch hitters you mention had an actual ability that allowed them to perform well off the bench or if they are just statistical anomolies that 'beat the odds'. Gates Brown pinch hitting average was about equal to his career average, while Lenny Harris was only slightly worse. They both seemed to ignore the historical penalty for pinch hitters.

[The Wolf]

Plus Brown and Harris, like all regular pinch hitters, were often facing their era's best relievers/closers in close and late situations. That should have had a negative effect on their performance.