More playoff options will probably come sooner than expected... Selig expecting playoff expansion..?

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I don't follow baseball as much as I did when the Expos were there, but this is sure a comment I can agree with. Those who like the idea are sure not hockey fans, so much teams are in the playoff that the season mean absolutly nothing and really weak teams can win the cup or go to the final every seasons (really who care if bad team like the Hurricanes, the Mighty Ducks, the Canadians, the Blackhawks or the Panthers make the final...). Baseball own a best playoff system than any other sports, I would even go as far as writing that it was even better when only the four division winners were in the playoff.

I like the idea and I've been a hockey fan since the late 50's.

I'll tell you one thing, the regular season means a lot. There isn't a single season where 3 or 4 teams aren't battling it out for the final 2 or 3 play-off spots over the last couple of weeks. It makes for some very exciting and fun to watch hockey.

I respect and understand the traditionalists and why they want to keep it simple.

However I enjoy the NHL format, where every game is just as important as the previous and the next. Unlike baseball, when you have 1 or 2 weeks left in the season very few teams have folded the tent and dusted off the golf clubs.

If the regular season should have so much emphasis on it, why bother with play-offs? Why not just crown the team with the best regular season record? If you're truely a very good team and win your division easily, then lose in the first round to a lesser team, who's fault is that? It certainly isn't the leagues fault just because they allow more teams in. It's the very good teams fault for NOT proving they're the best.

I don't care if a team squeeks into the play-offs or gets in easily. If your team plays good for 16 games (or however many your play-offs are), then you deserve to be champion.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by thbroman

Well, as someone who works at a university (U of Wisconsin) where Bud just endowed a chair in the History Department, I can't agree that every one of Bud's ideas is a bad one, but I have to say that this one surely belongs on the "bad" side of the scale, for sure.

Forgive me, I thought it would be clear that I was speaking of Bud the alleged Commissioner, not Bud the car salesman. My old girlfriend from Rice Lake told me that he was an excellent car salesman.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

LGO I know baseball wont be in December, why do people take stuff so literally on here?

Because they can't see you chuckling as you post it, Chicago.

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by professor ape

I completely disagree. I have been hoping for this change for years. The current setup makes the regular season less relevant because there is no penalty for being the wild card team. Sure, you don't get home field but neither does the division winner with the third best record.

In other words, this addition is necessary because the addition of the wild card made the pennants irrelevant in the first place.

We're not going in the right direction with this, but eventually there will be November Madness with 8 teams per league anyway. Yankees vs. Red Sox: coming to a world series near you!

[rjb128]

I'm on the fence about this. I dislike expanded playoffs in baseball, but if we're going to have them (and there seems to be no way of getting rid of them at this point) we might as well minimize the impact of the Wild Card teams by providing real incentives to win the division.

I'd prefer no more than a 3-game play-in series, because I like the 162-game schedule. I've never liked proposals that cut it back to 154. It wasn't what I grew up with, and it would just seem weirdly shortened to me. So if we could add just a short playoff series that didn't change the regular-season schedule, I'd be OK with it.

In my view, actually, the Perfect Baseball League would have 24 teams in four divisions, playing 162 games (in an 18/12 setup) with only division winners making the playoffs. I think that's how it worked best. But I guess time marches on.

As for OOTP, I think as many different playoff setups should be available as possible. Everybody has their own idea of what that perfect league looks like.

[Chicagofan76]

I was watching Mike & Mike this morning as they were talking about it.

Currently I guess they dont know which format they will use 1 game or a best of 3....as 1 of the other 3 teams not in this game i would be po'd that i would have to wait 5-7 days before my top SP takes the mound again. this still is gonna benefit the wildcard team it seems to me, based off of momentum, over the last several yrs, the teams that have made it to the world series werent always better, they just got hot at the right time.

Plus not sure on this, but I had thought they were purposing that the 1st 2 games were to be played at the team with the better records home field. whats the pint in having an extra wildcard if thats the case when some of the best teams in the league r 5-10 games above .500 on the road.

While from a White Sox fan standpoint an extra WC might put us into the playoffs more often then not, I am really beginning to hate this idea.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by rjb128

In my view, actually, the Perfect Baseball League would have 24 teams in four divisions, playing 162 games (in an 18/12 setup) with only division winners making the playoffs. I think that's how it worked best. But I guess time marches on.

You sound just like my father. I'd rather see 32 teams, 2 leagues, 2 divisions of 8 teams per league, and only division winners make the playoffs.

[eborix]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You sound just like my father. I'd rather see 32 teams, 2 leagues, 2 divisions of 8 teams per league, and only division winners make the playoffs.

I would like to see a setup with only the division winners making the playoffs. 24 or 32 teams wouldnt make much difference to me.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

I was watching Mike & Mike this morning as they were talking about it.

Currently I guess they dont know which format they will use 1 game or a best of 3....as 1 of the other 3 teams not in this game i would be po'd that i would have to wait 5-7 days before my top SP takes the mound again. this still is gonna benefit the wildcard team it seems to me, based off of momentum, over the last several yrs, the teams that have made it to the world series werent always better, they just got hot at the right time.

Plus not sure on this, but I had thought they were purposing that the 1st 2 games were to be played at the team with the better records home field. whats the pint in having an extra wildcard if thats the case when some of the best teams in the league r 5-10 games above .500 on the road.

While from a White Sox fan standpoint an extra WC might put us into the playoffs more often then not, I am really beginning to hate this idea.

Good points but the wait to play arguement isn't really valid. What happens when one LCS is a sweep and the other goes 7 games? Guess what, the ace sits around for days waiting to start. And it does happen regularly in Baseball, Hockey, and Basketball where a team will be sitting extra days waiting for their next opponent. Extra rest is nice for giving bumps and bruises a few extra days to heal, but it can also kill momentum. Either way, chances are at some point in the play-offs you're likely to get a few more days off than you'd like.

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

In other words, this addition is necessary because the addition of the wild card made the pennants irrelevant in the first place.

We're not going in the right direction with this, but eventually there will be November Madness with 8 teams per league anyway. Yankees vs. Red Sox: coming to a world series near you!

I agree that overall baseball is going in the wrong direction with the season going further into October and sometimes November. However, we are in the real world and baseball is not going to go back to a four team playoff or cut back to 154 games. So the question is how to make the best system where there are wild card teams.

Adding the extra wild card with a one game play-in would be MUCH better than the current system. If you don't win your division then you are crashing the playoff party. You should have to earn your way in and you need to have a real penalty for sneaking in as a second place team. This will make the pennant races more meaningful in more ways than one. Along with the races to win the divisions to avoid the wild card, you would also have an added incentive to be the division winner with the best record since you would get to face the wild card team which just had to use one of their best starters and travel. (Baseball needs to drop the "no division matchups in the first round" nonsense that they have now.)

If the season were to end on a Sunday, you leave Monday off in case you need to play a tie-breaker game just as you do now. You then have the play-in games on Tuesday. I would make the winners play Game One of the divisional round on Wednesday to enhance the penalty for getting in as a wild card. The division winners aren't sitting around for four or five days and there is only one day added on.

The three game series would be a big mistake for a number of reasons which I won't dive into here. I will say that there are a lot of players and managers who say that it should be a three game series because a 162 game season should not come down to one game. I have a solution for them...WIN YOUR DIVISION!

Going a step further, I would support targeting the season to start on or around March 27th either on Monday or Thursday, whichever is closest to that date. You schedule the first week of games in warmer climates or domes to minimize weather postponements. This would allow the regular season to end a few days earlier and therefore bringing the calendar at the end of the year back a few days. Throw in a handful of scheduled day/night double headers through the summer and you could end the regular season by the last week of September and have the World Series at a more reasonable time.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The easiest and, IMO, more interesting, way of doing it would be to have games #2 and #3 of the best-of-three series played as a day-night doubleheader. So if the series is tied 1-1 after the day game, the two clubs would play again that night. Such a schedule keeps the series as short as possible in terms of days; division winners need only have three days off (one day to play any tiebreaking playoff games plus two days for the best-of-three wild card elimination series). And it would make things a lot harder for any wild card team advancing to the Division Series (which is the entire point of adding a second wild card qualifier).

The doubleheader for games 2 and 3 will never happen because you can't make as much money on it as you can by having them on separate dates. You need to have each postseason game at least a day apart so you can get an entirely new crowd to the ballpark, television viewership as appropriate, etc.

As for the idea, I like this better than the current model. I would much rather go back to the concept of 2 divisions with an LCS only, but that ain't happening.

I do think this idea has a number of positive effects:
1. Makes winning your division more meaningful.
2. Makes the wildcard less meaningful.
3. Adds another city to the list of those that care about postseason outcomes.
4. Adds potential for cinderalla stories amidst dramatic playoff runs.
5. Adds teams to the mix that will be trying for a playoff spot.

I would prefer to keep the wild card play-in to just 1 game, but I think a 3 game series makes more sense. In a 1-game playoff, you won't necessarily see either team's best starter if the rotation doesn't line up to get you there. A 3-game set has a much higher liklihood that at least one ace will get a chance to pitch.

I think we all know that these changes are made to increase revenue, but they're also made with the casual and non-fan in mind. Any business needs to look to expand their market share by wooing customers who aren't already heavily committed to the brand. Most of the people who complain about this type of change aren't going to change their relationship with MLB as a result of it. However, MLB will probably get more fans interested in baseball that previously were not. In the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty small change for baseball. It's nothing like the DH or divisional realignment.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by professor ape

I agree that overall baseball is going in the wrong direction with the season going further into October and sometimes November. However, we are in the real world and baseball is not going to go back to a four team playoff or cut back to 154 games. So the question is how to make the best system where there are wild card teams.

Adding the extra wild card with a one game play-in would be MUCH better than the current system. If you don't win your division then you are crashing the playoff party. You should have to earn your way in and you need to have a real penalty for sneaking in as a second place team. This will make the pennant races more meaningful in more ways than one. Along with the races to win the divisions to avoid the wild card, you would also have an added incentive to be the division winner with the best record since you would get to face the wild card team which just had to use one of their best starters and travel. (Baseball needs to drop the "no division matchups in the first round" nonsense that they have now.)

If the season were to end on a Sunday, you leave Monday off in case you need to play a tie-breaker game just as you do now. You then have the play-in games on Tuesday. I would make the winners play Game One of the divisional round on Wednesday to enhance the penalty for getting in as a wild card. The division winners aren't sitting around for four or five days and there is only one day added on.

The three game series would be a big mistake for a number of reasons which I won't dive into here. I will say that there are a lot of players and managers who say that it should be a three game series because a 162 game season should not come down to one game. I have a solution for them...WIN YOUR DIVISION!

Going a step further, I would support targeting the season to start on or around March 27th either on Monday or Thursday, whichever is closest to that date. You schedule the first week of games in warmer climates or domes to minimize weather postponements. This would allow the regular season to end a few days earlier and therefore bringing the calendar at the end of the year back a few days. Throw in a handful of scheduled day/night double headers through the summer and you could end the regular season by the last week of September and have the World Series at a more reasonable time.

Why should there be a penalty for getting in as the wildcard? If the League Rules state that 4 or 6 or 8 or however many teams will qualify for the post-season, why should the wildcard team be penalized for playing well enough to qualify for onr of those post-season berths? Just because they didn't win a division? They don't have to win a division according to the rules of the league. It also doesn't say that division winners should have an advantage. The only advantage accorded, to my knowledge, is home field for the better record, at least until the WS.

Sorry, I just don't get this whole - penalize the wildcard team thing - simply because they played within the league rules and structure.

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Why should there be a penalty for getting in as the wildcard? If the League Rules state that 4 or 6 or 8 or however many teams will qualify for the post-season, why should the wildcard team be penalized for playing well enough to qualify for onr of those post-season berths? Just because they didn't win a division? They don't have to win a division according to the rules of the league. It also doesn't say that division winners should have an advantage. The only advantage accorded, to my knowledge, is home field for the better record, at least until the WS.

Sorry, I just don't get this whole - penalize the wildcard team thing - simply because they played within the league rules and structure.

It's a bit of a change in thinking. With the new setup, I wouldn't consider the wild card teams to be in the playoffs until they have won their play-in game. The bottom line is that they had 162 games to win their divisions but failed to do so. The wild card is still giving two teams an opportunity to get in, but you have make it through the gauntlet to get there.

The other part of the equation is that the more that you penalize the wild card teams, the more importance you are putting on the regular season. I personally want to see the regular season be as meaningful as possible under the assumption that baseball is going to have no less than eight teams in the post season.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Really? I can remember George Brett once saying "I could have played another year, but I would have been playing for the money, and baseball deserves better than that." Was he a romantic?

Unless he played all his other seasons for free, then he was, ultimately, doing the job for the money. (That doesn't mean he didn't love his job though.)

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

LGO I know baseball wont be in December, why do people take stuff so literally on here?

The general point, of the post-season running too late into the fall, was nonetheless a valid one and worth commenting upon. It's not as if that hasn't been talked about the last couple of years.

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

We're not going in the right direction with this, but eventually there will be November Madness with 8 teams per league anyway.

That won't happen for practical reasons. There's barely enough time now to squeeze in the post-season before the weather becomes too cold, so there's no way an eight team playoff in each league could be fit into the post-season time available. The regular season is when clubs make their money, so cutting the number of games in the regular season to fit in an extended post-season (which financially only benefits the participating clubs) isn't going to happen.

Another thing is that any such change has to be negotiated with the players union. Players likewise make their money from the regular season, so an extended post-season doesn't benefit the membership beyond the few who'd be on the roster of the playoff teams, and the bonuses are only substantive for the World Series participants. So I don't see the Players Association getting on board—most of them find the season too long as it is, and they were among the first to complain about the four extra days added to the post-season schedule in 2007.

Originally Posted by rjb128

In my view, actually, the Perfect Baseball League would have 24 teams in four divisions, playing 162 games (in an 18/12 setup) with only division winners making the playoffs.

Same here, I think that is the ideal set up. 6-team divisions are the perfect size IMO: not too large, not too small. Plus two 6-team divisions in a league is the easiest to schedule for as that alignment lends itself easily to the mathematics of all kinds of scheduling scenarios.

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Currently I guess they dont know which format they will use 1 game or a best of 3....as 1 of the other 3 teams not in this game i would be po'd that i would have to wait 5-7 days before my top SP takes the mound again.

In the early 1970s, for a time there was a five day layoff between the end of the regular season and the start of the LCS. (Of course, this applied to both LCS participants since there were no bye teams.)

As I suggested, the layoff for division winners could be made just three days: one day for the playing of any tiebreakers, then two days for the best-of-three wild card elimination series. A three-day layoff doesn't strike me as being too problematic. The hardest part might be convincing the television networks and the players' union to go for a day-night doubleheader for the second and third games of the series. But I don't see that as an insurmountable problem, and from the television side, it can add some drama to the proceedings.

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Plus not sure on this, but I had thought they were purposing that the 1st 2 games were to be played at the team with the better records home field.

I doubt that. MLB has never done a best-of-three series that way. It's far more likely that the home field rotation will be 1-2, with the better club having the option either to play the first game at home and then play two on the road, or play on the road for the first game and then have the second and third games at home. (Which is exactly the option given to the winner of the coin toss for NL tiebreakers prior to 1969.)

Originally Posted by fhomess

The doubleheader for games 2 and 3 will never happen because you can't make as much money on it as you can by having them on separate dates.

Not if they are separate admission day-night doubleheaders. Which is a regular practice in MLB.

Originally Posted by fhomess

You need to have each postseason game at least a day apart so you can get an entirely new crowd to the ballpark, television viewership as appropriate, etc.

Remember, this is a wild card round only, so there'd only be four clubs competing. On day one, you have one game in the early afternoon and one in the late afternoon or early evening. On the second day, it's more problematic, granted, for the scheduling of two different day-night contests. But I don't see that as any more difficult than the fourth day of the Division Series round where up to four games could be taking place.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by mrdrewblue

See:
Bud Selig expecting playoffs to expand to 10 teams for 2012 - MLB - SI.com

What does everyone think about this?
In real life?
For OOTP?


Personally, IMO I hate the idea of baseball expanding the playoffs and losing some value to the regular season play.
But for OOTP, i love it lol

I like the idea for both.

Nothing is more boring then having most teams locked up in September for a playoff position. Rest of the games are not worth watching. At least this provides for more competition for more teams in September. It's going to be fun to watch the battles, there will be more teams involved and for me, that's a plus!

[swampdragon]

I wanted the wild card teams to play each other in a single game the day after the regular season ends. I want more emphasis on the regular season, not less.

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That won't happen for practical reasons. There's barely enough time now to squeeze in the post-season before the weather becomes too cold, so there's no way an eight team playoff in each league could be fit into the post-season time available. The regular season is when clubs make their money, so cutting the number of games in the regular season to fit in an extended post-season (which financially only benefits the participating clubs) isn't going to happen.

Another thing is that any such change has to be negotiated with the players union. Players likewise make their money from the regular season, so an extended post-season doesn't benefit the membership beyond the few who'd be on the roster of the playoff teams, and the bonuses are only substantive for the World Series participants. So I don't see the Players Association getting on board—most of them find the season too long as it is, and they were among the first to complain about the four extra days added to the post-season schedule in 2007.

Sadly, the answer to that is that everyone knows, and players and their union have complained, that spring training is too long now that players don't spend their offseasons selling tires at the mall. The owners will trade a week or so of ST (especially the non-Cactus/Grapefruit games) for the extra week they need for November Madness.

[mgom27]

Have Spring Training in February and start season on March 1st then you can expand Playoff teams in each League to 8.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Not if they are separate admission day-night doubleheaders. Which is a regular practice in MLB.

...

Remember, this is a wild card round only, so there'd only be four clubs competing. On day one, you have one game in the early afternoon and one in the late afternoon or early evening. On the second day, it's more problematic, granted, for the scheduling of two different day-night contests. But I don't see that as any more difficult than the fourth day of the Division Series round where up to four games could be taking place.

I don't think attendance is the big issue here, although I do think it's a partial factor. I don't have the impression that fans have attended recent double headers well, but I think it has more to do with advertisers and getting the same markets to pay attention to 8 hours of baseball in one day rather than 4 hours of baseball on each of 2 separate days. I'd be quite surprised if the MLBPA agreed to a scheduled postseason doubleheader when they don't want scheduled regular season doubleheaders. I just really think, and I have no numbers to back this, that there's more money to be made on two days than there is on one day. MLB cares more about money than keeping the schedule short.

[Vinny P.]

UGH! A 10 team playoff? Why in the world would they resort to byes in baseball? This is not football.

I skimmed through this thread, and am quite surprised nobody mentioned, as far as I saw, the problems with any byes in baseball.

Baseball is a game that is meant to be played everyday. Teams that have to sit down for longer than a single day, tend to lose a LOT of steam. This isn't football, in which having 14 days off in a row can be extremely valuable. This is baseball in which 2-3 or more days off in a row can have a tremendous negative impact on the rhythm of the players. Especially so at the Major League level.