Just wanted to say "Thanks", but...

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

While I agree 100% with Vinny P. that OOTP is "the greatest baseball sim ever invented", I will not be buying it this go 'round, 25% off or no. I am thankful for this game. I will verbally support this product to anyone who is looking at buying it. I will try to get every one my baseball crazy friends to buy it. But, I will not be buying OOTP 12.

I am only one person and my $40 may not make much of a difference in the long run. But certain things, league associations and customizable play-offs, are not in this game that I think should be in it. And they are big enough things that I do not feel like spending my money on a game that does not have them. I support Markus and Co. and hope that OOTP lasts a long time, but my support this time does not come from $$$.

As someone who has bought every version since 5 or so I am leaning to agreeing with you. I have asked for two things for several years now.

1) Ability to change the number of innings per game and have era based on that.

2) Configurable playoffs.

Why do I need these things? To simulate college baseball and its postseason.

I have never understood why it would be difficult to let us 'edit' the schedule for the post-season like we can the regular season.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by rich12545

So if 12 doesn't have new features you want, why spend any money on it?

Reasons are posted in #15 post of this thread.

Just how do you know "Enough people will buy it to support the game"?

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

So lets say that we all take that stance, 100% of the customers and Markus releases a new version and actually doesn't sell one copy. Do you think he would make another release or would it be the end of the road for this game?

That's the way I see it. I love this game and the only way I can support it where it really counts is by letting my money do the talking.

I bought every version of this game and will continue to do so. Regardless if my own requirements are met or not.

In my books, it is a wise investment to keep this great OOTP series going.

Yeah, I stand a much higher chance of never seeing the feature I want if I don't buy OOTP. $30 a year is ridiculously cheap for this game.

And of course if you don't want to support OOTP financially or can't, you can always volunteer to be a beta tester and help them out that way.

[robc]

I'm not exactly sure why some people get on others' cases when they say they may not buy a version. Nobody knows anyone elses financial situation. If you have the money and want to support Markus even though the feature list isn't that appealing to you that is great. You want to help the long term viability of a game you enjoy. Others may have different priorities than you. After all this is a business and not a charity.

I was tempted not to preorder, but I did. For me the improved AI could be the biggest feature. Of course I am sceptical about how improved it will be and eventually my patience will run out for the bad moves the AI makes, but I am not there yet. To me OOTP is a good game and worth the $30, but I wouldn't buy it out of charity.

[coljesep]

Here's just my 2 cents.

I'm an old school kinda guy. I started "sim baseball" with Front Page Sports 98, if you know what that is... you probably loved it. It was just a solid sim engine for what it offered.

OOTP 6.5 was the first OOTP I ever got into. After a while though I was bored with it and tried out OOTP 11 and 10. I didn't like 11, I'm not totally sure why. I just liked 10 much better.

I pre-order OOTP 12 because OOTP 10 is going to be ancient history soon and I figure it's worth a shot.

If you give me realistic game results, good financial system, and personality features that impact the game plus negotiations, and a good keeper of league history... I'm pretty much a happy guy.

I don't buy games year after year. I can tell you with almost great certainty that I am not buying OOTP 13. I don't buy Madden etc every year either.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by boshk

so your saying OOTP is going to fold and disappear? that wasnt a good comparison. it was the only reason the ass packers went to the superbowl.

Someone will step up and be Caleb Hanie...and no it wasnt the only reason why the fudge packers went to the SB.

[Chicagofan76]

Since when does OOTP come preloaded with NCAA baseball, why would it have that type of schedule? It does have a fictional league and fictional playoffs which is what NCAA baseball is when u use the quickstart or create your own.

Any baseball game that comes out is going to have a certain level of customization, but to think that this game or any game before it would have every feature u ever wanted is absurd. This game mimicks real pro baseball nothing else.

The reason I love this game and switched from HH is because I can actually have Endor City be Endor City with owners and mgrs etc. But I cant edit career stats easily and am almost forced to start at 2003 vs 2038 where I left off at on HH.

Thats fine by me..If 12 doesnt have the feature u r looking for thats fine there always going to be some loss of buyers with every new version, but then u will have new buyers with each version which should even everything out.
Hopefully for all the people that r jumping ship will be back by June or back by 13.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by robc

I'm not exactly sure why some people get on others' cases when they say they may not buy a version. Nobody knows anyone elses financial situation. If you have the money and want to support Markus even though the feature list isn't that appealing to you that is great. You want to help the long term viability of a game you enjoy. Others may have different priorities than you. After all this is a business and not a charity.

I was tempted not to preorder, but I did. For me the improved AI could be the biggest feature. Of course I am sceptical about how improved it will be and eventually my patience will run out for the bad moves the AI makes, but I am not there yet. To me OOTP is a good game and worth the $30, but I wouldn't buy it out of charity.

And I'm not exactly sure why some people go out of their way and post on the official forums that they won`t be buying the next version.

Please explain the purpose of such a post.

I really don`t understand how posts like these can help the future of this game.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Reasons are posted in #15 post of this thread.

Just how do you know "Enough people will buy it to support the game"?

Two reasons:

1. There will be enough people who got the improvements they want.

2. There will be new people.

Lots of people skip a year or two if the game isn't going to improve for them and it keeps going.

I didn't see anything in the list that I was interested in so I was going to skip ver 12. Then Markus said the pbp save was on his list so I'm going to buy.

I don't see a reason to buy just to "support the game." That would give the impression that real improvements aren't needed and it's ok to fudge year after year and make money. The fact that Markus and company listens to customers and improve based on suggestions is what gets reorders.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by rich12545

Two reasons:

1. There will be enough people who got the improvements they want.

2. There will be new people.

Lots of people skip a year or two if the game isn't going to improve for them and it keeps going.

I didn't see anything in the list that I was interested in so I was going to skip ver 12. Then Markus said the pbp save was on his list so I'm going to buy.

I don't see a reason to buy just to "support the game." That would give the impression that real improvements aren't needed and it's ok to fudge year after year and make money. The fact that Markus and company listens to customers and improve based on suggestions is what gets reorders.

He`s already announced some great changes for 13 and 14. Markus has a plan and never let us down yet. Therefore he deserves our support.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

And I'm not exactly sure why some people go out of their way and post on the official forums that they won`t be buying the next version.

Please explain the purpose of such a post.

This.

If you feel you need to let it be known that you won't be buying and why, why not fire off an email or PM to Andreas and Markus instead?

[robc]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

And I'm not exactly sure why some people go out of their way and post on the official forums that they won`t be buying the next version.

Please explain the purpose of such a post.

I really don`t understand how posts like these can help the future of this game.

It's not like the OP (cephasjames) is some shmo with 10 posts looking to start trouble. He is a guy with a lot of participation in the forums and wanted to express his opinion. That is what the forums are all about. Some people just like to express their views so others can read them. Perhaps others agree and will add to his sentiments. Of course there will be others who disagree and than is fine too.

In the end people have the right to disagree with the OP and perhaps even be upset that he shared this view publically. All I said was that I didn't understand why they give him (and others with that view) a hard time about his decision.

[Jaxxvain]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

And I'm not exactly sure why some people go out of their way and post on the official forums that they won`t be buying the next version.

Please explain the purpose of such a post.

I really don`t understand how posts like these can help the future of this game.

You've been here since 2002 and you can really ask such a question?

So, you haven't noticed that fans (buyers) of the game have come here, time and time again, and asked for certain features, bug fixes, pipe dreams, etc. and then still haven't noticed that these requests, demands and hopes have been put into this game?

The fans, along with Markus and his team's vision, have shaped this game to be what it is today. Partly due to posts exactly like this thread.

I would be willing to bet that Markus very strongly wants League Associations and Customizable (more than currently available) Playoffs to be included in OOTP12, but just doesn't think he has the time/resources to pull it off on this version.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by robc

All I said was that I didn't understand why they give him (and others with that view) a hard time about his decision.

So expressing the reason why someone should buy the game is giving him (them) a hard time. Now I don`t understand what you are saying.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

He`s already announced some great changes for 13 and 14. Markus has a plan and never let us down yet. Therefore he deserves our support.

And I don't understand this post. Are you saying people should spend their hard earned money if they don't feel they're getting anything in return? Just to support a business?

And to clarify - by "anything in return" I mean something they want in addition to what they already have.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by coljesep

Here's just my 2 cents.

I'm an old school kinda guy. I started "sim baseball" with Front Page Sports 98, if you know what that is... you probably loved it. It was just a solid sim engine for what it offered.

I had the pleasure of being a beta tester for that and became good friends with the lead developer (I wish I could remember his name, but it was Front Page Sports Baseball '94 and that was a long time ago.) It was kind of neat to make a suggestion and then see it in action. One of the early flaws was all the popups to the catcher - remember those?

I LOVE OOTP baseball. It is a god-send to us who used to play stratomatic or ABPA but longed for aging and new players without having to buy new cards every year. I have just grown weary of waiting for the only request I have ever really made in 5 or 6 years, customizable (double elimination for example) playoffs....

[robc]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

So expressing the reason why someone should buy the game is giving him (them) a hard time. Now I don`t understand what you are saying.

I think in the context of this thread you are correct and I did overract by stating people were giving him a hard time. This thread is pretty darn mild. Perhaps I read into a couple posts too much, but sometimes it seems people try to shame others into buying the game, or look down on those who think a $30 purchase is something to carefully consider. I also think it was the ghosts of other threads past on this topic that weren't so mild that made me expect the worst.

So...my bad on this one.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Yeah, I stand a much higher chance of never seeing the feature I want if I don't buy OOTP. $30 a year is ridiculously cheap for this game.

I agree. Plus Markus is adding a save game feature this version. That's priceless to me.

Buy OOTP 12. Eventually the features you want will appear. Look at mass select and now save game and how long it took for them to get in the game. In a few versions what you want will appear. In the meantime buy the game every year to help to keep OOTP alive so that eventually you will get what you want.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by rich12545

Are you saying people should spend their hard earned money if they don't feel they're getting anything in return?

How can you write that? Ever since OOTP 2006 every new version has had more than enough new features to be well worth every penny paid for it.

Even factoring in the cost of a new version every year OOTP is a tremendous entertainment value.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

How can you write that? Ever since OOTP 2006 every new version has had more than enough new features to be well worth every penny paid for it.

This is a completely subjective point of view. Everyone has a different idea of what they want out of the game. It's clear the the OP doesn't want the new features that have been announced for OOTP12, and feels if he's not getting the features he does want, than the last version he has will suit him just fine. I've taken a different position, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable position to take.