McGwire admits steroid use

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

Many of the past stars drank heavily, smoked during the game, and ate in the dugout. None of those are heavily recognized as performance enhancers.

The steroids guys were taking from the 19th century onward would probably be recognized as them, though.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The steroids guys were taking from the 19th century onward would probably be recognized as them, though.

What steroids and what players?

[PhillieFever]

I'm glad McGwire came clean,now he can move on and put this nightmare behind him.In the end,he's just a human being who made a huge error in judgment,allowing himself to get caught up in baseball's steroid culture.Hopefully now he can turn the page and help this new generation of players stay away from the stuff.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

What steroids and what players?

I think he's referring to Pud Galvin and the Brown-Sequard Elixir.

Beyond that, there is Tom House's assertions about pitchers taking all kinds of junk in the 1960s. And the basic premise that if ballplayers were taking greenies (and tranqs) in the 1950s, how likely is it that some were taking Dianabol or other steroids well before "The Era?"

Performance enhancement is definitely not new in baseball (or sports in general; someone already mentioned the ancient Greeks and Romans) and we'll never know what was going on in the age when sportswriters held the veil of secrecy in front of the pastime.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by The Professor

I think he's referring to Pud Galvin and the Brown-Sequard Elixir.

Beyond that, there is Tom House's assertions about pitchers taking all kinds of junk in the 1960s. And the basic premise that if ballplayers were taking greenies (and tranqs) in the 1950s, how likely is it that some were taking Dianabol or other steroids well before "The Era?"

Performance enhancement is definitely not new in baseball (or sports in general; someone already mentioned the ancient Greeks and Romans) and we'll never know what was going on in the age when sportswriters held the veil of secrecy in front of the pastime.

OK, so they mentioned one player in all of baseball history and a former player making assertions without mentioning any names. I thought that maybe since people are talking about steroid use in the past they may have had some hard facts to support the claim. Obviously they don't, but hey, why should that stop them.

[jaxmagicman]

Again, until I see proof that Steriods help you hit more homeruns I will continue to say meh.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Hank was, at least, taking amphetamines while he played, so it's probably somewhat predictable that he'd offer an olive branch to modern PED users. Personally, I'd like to see him come out and fess up to the **** he was taking.

He's already done that.

[Jason Moyer]

Admitting to taking a greenie one time isn't much of a confession. Granted, I don't want to think/assume he did more than that.

[Jonzard]

Originally Posted by bubba22plus

Besides, taking steroids technically wasn't cheating until 2002, a year after McGwire retired. And they only got banned when people made a big deal about it.

Well it was illegal. Poisoning a guy isn't in the rulebook, but that doesn't make that not cheating.

[AnotherAlias]

Mark McLiar finally confesses. It wasn't illegal when he was taking them, but that doesn't explain why he still tried to hide his use of them. Why didn't he admit to taking them and simply use the excuse that the weren't illegal when he was using them?

Can anyone answer that for me?

Let's let Pete Rose back, too!

[JackRules1]

The MLB Network guys last night were all worked up because McGwire wouldn't admit that steroids actually helped his numbers, especially Rosenthal and Verducci. I think for these guys they have all this pent up anger that they can't publicly vent on anyone who has not admitted PED use, for fear of lawsuits, so when anyone comes out of the closet, the writers/pundits can't wait to let loose.

For me, there is a line between the guys who admit what they did and the guys that don't. I would prefer that they all went away and that baseball was totally clean, but that's not going to happen. So I guess I am ok with guys admitting to their mistakes and moving on. I sure don't care whether McGwire is a hitting coach or not. Whether or not he can do any good in that capacity has nothing to do with his past PED use. I appreciate that even though McGwire came clean to suit his own self interests (just like ARod, Pettitte, Canseco, etc. etc.), it still had to be very hard for him. I for one would not like to sit in front of all the people that I know and that have supported me and have to discuss my most stupid and embarassing past indescretions.

If you want to talk about a veil of secrecy, take a look at how the golf people have handled Tiger Woods. I consider what Tiger did to be way more heinous then taking PED's. Yet for the most part he is getting a free pass from golf writers. Why? Because golf NEEDS Tiger Woods but baseball can do without Bonds, McGwire, Rose, even ARod. When Tiger returns his reception will be much friendlier than what McGwire will hear at visiting ball parks. I guess the message is it's ok to cheat on your wife, just don't cheat on your sport.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by JackRules1

If you want to talk about a veil of secrecy, take a look at how the golf people have handled Tiger Woods. I consider what Tiger did to be way more heinous then taking PED's.

I agree that what Tiger did is terrible, but it's a completely different argument. His cheating on his wife didn't enhance his game like steroids have altered baseball (and athletes from other sports) players abilities.

I see what you're saying, but the crimes are like apples and oranges.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Again, until I see proof that Steriods help you hit more homeruns I will continue to say meh.

73, and 70 home runs in one season is proof enough.

Look up Brady Anderson's 1996 season.

Brady Anderson Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

[JackRules1]

I hear you and I understand that what Tiger did had no affect on 'the game', unlike McGwire et. al. It just bothers me that no one seems terribly indignant with what Tiger did, while many are happy to pile on the steroids guys. Maybe what Tiger did hits a lot closer to home for those wanting to throw stones at all the bad guys.

As a baseball and a golf fan, in a funny way I feel more cheated by Tiger because I looked up to him as an individual and I feel somehow the entire game has been tainted by him, because everyone thought he was such an upstanding guy. I never really looked up to the baseball cheaters in the same way. Maybe I was under the delusion that golf was more pristine then baseball because for years we have been hearing about steroids, but the world's greatest golfer actually being the world's biggest cad is still pretty new for me.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

73, and 70 home runs in one season is proof enough.

Look up Brady Anderson's 1996 season.

Brady Anderson Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

So you are saying that homeruns equal power?

That is a ludacris argument. You are taking homeruns into a vacum. You totally ignore a million other factors, such as new ball manufactures, strike zone changes. New ball parks. Expansion. I could go on and on, but it is obvious you are one of those guys who just believes everything the media tells you and does no research on your own.

Read this article and get back to me:

Steroids, Other "Drugs", and Baseball

The fact of the matter is, PF has gone down. So we can say Steriods Causes less power.

[Russ]

Brady Anderson didn't take steroids.

[Russ]

I watched Brady Anderson his whole career. His body didn't change. The dude was ripped, but he was ripped when he came up in the late 80s and he was ripped when he played in 2001. Yeah, he went from 16 to 50 HRs, but then he went from 50 to 18. Like he has said 100 times since he retired, the difference between 25 and 50 HRs is only one good swing a week.

His 1996 season was an abberation, a fluke. But Brady Anderson didn't take steroids. I'd bet money on that.

He also talks with a lisp.

[EMSoccerCoach]

The leap from McGwire's rookie year of 49 to his peak of 70 is pretty much the same leap as Maris' pre-'61 high of 39 to 61.

Guess Roger was taking something, too. He hit 33 the next year and never topped 30 again.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by EMSoccerCoach

The leap from McGwire's rookie year of 49 to his peak of 70 is pretty much the same leap as Maris' pre-'61 high of 39 to 61.

Guess Roger was taking something, too. He hit 33 the next year and never topped 30 again.

Well he did hit 42 in 1992, 52 in 1996, 58 in 1997, 70 in 1998, and 62 in 1999. *

SO ya the Roger Maris example of one-and-done doesn't really work.

* - taken from his BR page

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by JackRules1

I hear you and I understand that what Tiger did had no affect on 'the game', unlike McGwire et. al. It just bothers me that no one seems terribly indignant with what Tiger did, while many are happy to pile on the steroids guys. Maybe what Tiger did hits a lot closer to home for those wanting to throw stones at all the bad guys.

As a baseball and a golf fan, in a funny way I feel more cheated by Tiger because I looked up to him as an individual and I feel somehow the entire game has been tainted by him, because everyone thought he was such an upstanding guy. I never really looked up to the baseball cheaters in the same way. Maybe I was under the delusion that golf was more pristine then baseball because for years we have been hearing about steroids, but the world's greatest golfer actually being the world's biggest cad is still pretty new for me.

And maybe, just maybe, the Golf journalists actually have some class and don't feel the need to bash the bejeezuz out every golfer that does something wrong like they have the market cornered on it.

I kind of like going to a Golf web site and reading about the sport instead of the transgressions. Things are rolling along normally, they continue to give the game coverage and leave the fodder out of it. Tiger was man enough to admit he made mistakes, the Golf community is letting him get his life sorted out and move forward instead of constantly houding him and reminding him of his mistakes. How nice and refreshing that is to see.