So, When will the rest of us get to order the game at full price?

[dingus4ever]

Originally Posted by toddgregory

Flame me if you want, but Opening Day is long gone and I am finding other ways to occupy my time. Hopefully the excitement will return when the game is actually released.

Simple marketing theory would say that coinciding the release date with Opening Day would have a massive positive effect on sales. Certainly there are many diehard OOTP fans that are content to sit back and banter with each other while they await the release.

But, how many baseball fans/gamers (ie newbies) would take a shot and spend some money to give OOTP a try if it was available on Opening Day?? I think alot!

Just compare the number of people in the mall the day after Thanksgiving to the number of people there on Christmas Eve... Retailers who response to the public's interpretation of holidays and seasons do well.

Combine this long wait with the lack of interest that the board has in rectifying the current problems that many Vista users are having with running OOTP 9 and I know you have a portion of the OOTP community who are not satisfied. (but are unlikely to voice their negative sentiment given the current tone of the OOTP community and its message board)

So, respond with criticism, sarcasm, or silence if you wish. I just thought it was time to provide another point of view.

You make very valid points.

However, if the game was not ready to go release day and they released it anyways the OOTP franchise would be damaged. This game is known for its quality and to damage that reputation may damage sales next year and the year after. Perhaps they should have timed things better but you can't control health.

I just hope we get it soon! I am dying here

[CoolDudeWill]

Originally Posted by toddgregory

Flame me if you want, but Opening Day is long gone and I am finding other ways to occupy my time. Hopefully the excitement will return when the game is actually released.

Simple marketing theory would say that coinciding the release date with Opening Day would have a massive positive effect on sales. Certainly there are many diehard OOTP fans that are content to sit back and banter with each other while they await the release.

But, how many baseball fans/gamers (ie newbies) would take a shot and spend some money to give OOTP a try if it was available on Opening Day?? I think alot!

Just compare the number of people in the mall the day after Thanksgiving to the number of people there on Christmas Eve... Retailers who response to the public's interpretation of holidays and seasons do well.

Combine this long wait with the lack of interest that the board has in rectifying the current problems that many Vista users are having with running OOTP 9 and I know you have a portion of the OOTP community who are not satisfied. (but are unlikely to voice their negative sentiment given the current tone of the OOTP community and its message board)

So, respond with criticism, sarcasm, or silence if you wish. I just thought it was time to provide another point of view.

While you may be correct, I want to provide a different point of view. I am going to guess that the typical person who plays OOTP is a fairly hardcore baseball/stats fan. This game is a product that someone would have to search out and find, rather than simply see on the store shelf. Individuals who purchase OOTP are likely return customers who are looking for a high quality, fairly unique product. Because of this target market, I'd imagine that OOTP doesn't loose too many customers by releasing the game later in the season rather than on opening day.

[toddgregory]

Originally Posted by CoolDudeWill

While you may be correct, I want to provide a different point of view. I am going to guess that the typical person who plays OOTP is a fairly hardcore baseball/stats fan. This game is a product that someone would have to search out and find, rather than simply see on the store shelf. Individuals who purchase OOTP are likely return customers who are looking for a high quality, fairly unique product. Because of this target market, I'd imagine that OOTP doesn't loose too many customers by releasing the game later in the season rather than on opening day.

We are discussing apples and oranges. You are talking retention (keeping current customers) and I am talking about recruiting (finding new customers). OOTP is a decent product and I would assume that most who buy it and like it stay with it. My point is that Markus and OOTP could dramatically expand the game's popularity, appeal, and customer base if they coincided the release date with Opening Day. (Again VERY simple marketing theory)

I am impressed with the loyalty that many posters show towards the OOTP development team, by saying that Markus doesnt want to release the game before it is perfected. However, I believe this is a CRUTCH that OOTP uses.

This isn't OOTP version 1 or 2 or 3, its version 10. Most managers drive their development team by setting deadlines and motivating them to meet it.

As consumers, we might be better served to NOT preorder.(its not like they are only making a limited number of games each year). Eliminate the significant amount of money that OOTP realizes from preorders (the discount they offer probably pales in comparision to the amount of interest they have accumulated off preorder funds since February 19th) and I guarantee they will announce a hard release date and stick to it in the future.

I realize this is not the "popular" OOTP party line, but this is business. I prepaid for a product and the longer the delay lasts between my payment and the day I recieve the product, the less value I place on the discount. (the financial term is "depreciation.") So I guess in the future I have moved from a diehard preorder customer to a maybe pay full price when its out guy. (diehard to maybe is NOT retention, BTW)

Hats off to Markus and the OOTP team for the preorder strategy as it benefits them. But, shame on us as consumers. Would we purchase other items in the same manner?? (ie Here, pay for it now and I will get it to you. Im not sure when, but you will get it I promise.)

Again, just presenting an alternative point of view. Please dont tell me to not buy OOTP or not post on this board if I am unhappy. I am not unhappy. OOTP has provided me with hours of enjoyment as I am sure it has to many others. Just remember that we all paid for those hours of enjoyment when we bought the product. I just want to enjoy OOTP 10 as well. It's gonna be a great game, its gonna be well worth the price, and it would be even better if it was released!

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by toddgregory

Certainly there are many diehard OOTP fans that are content to sit back and banter with each other while they await the release.

I wouldn't say "content" is the word. "Resigned" would be more like it. Most everyone would like the game to be ready sooner, but as that isn't happening the choices are either to go off and find something else to do or to banter. So we banter. I imagine you're correct that a release around Opening Day would be a good commercial move, but with the company being so small and the game so ambitious it generally doesn't work out that way. It has been pointed out that if Markus refrained from adding new features to the game in patches and just concentrated on bug hunts, he might be able to sign off on a given version earlier and direct his time to the next one.

[fantom1979]

I am a firm believer that the game should be released as close to opening day as possible. Markus has only posted 6 times since the March 23rd, and none since April 17. For the dedicated few, this is expected... for the newcomers, it looks like this game is dead. At least when SI was around, we had the the road to release with screen shots and blogs.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

At least when SI was around, we had the the road to release with screen shots and blogs.

Yes, that was a great thing. Mr Duffy is missed around here.

I do have to say that a side from the newsletter, there seems to have been zilch done around here marketing-wise and there are some people besides Markus that are usually more prominent here that seem to have disappeared.

My gut tells me that all hands are currently on deck trying to get this version ready.

[Rich Tiger Fan]

I agree with fantom here...for those of us that have been around for some time we expect this and for the most part accept it. On the other hand it has been almost a month since the "Small Update". I think the sheer boredom around here is probably what spawned this discussion in the first place.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by toddgregory

As consumers, we might be better served to NOT preorder.(its not like they are only making a limited number of games each year). Eliminate the significant amount of money that OOTP realizes from preorders (the discount they offer probably pales in comparision to the amount of interest they have accumulated off preorder funds since February 19th) and I guarantee they will announce a hard release date and stick to it in the future.

Look you have the right to post your opinion and in part I agree with you but please do some basic math before you make a silly statement like the above.

Let's say 2000 copies sold at $30 (I know that different countries may pay more).

2000 X 30 = 60,000 invest at 3.25% (that's current prime rate, I don't know anyone who could get that without locking up the funds for some time).

$60,000 at 3.25% = $1950/4 = $487.50 is the realized interest for 3 months (Feb 19 to May 19). Even if you double the presale to 4000 copies he would not clear $1000 in interest.

Now that doesn't factor that he has to pay himself, and the employees/partner. He pays Elicense off the top line for every copy sold. He pays bandwidth, credit card fees etc. It is very unlikely that any of that money is sitting in an investment account getting any interest at all.

I get frustrated too and pre-ordering is voluntary. I see it as an investment in a very small company that I want to keep in business. YMMV.

[Rich Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by RchW

I get frustrated too and pre-ordering is voluntary. I see it as an investment in a very small company that I want to keep in business. YMMV.

This is where I would say I am too...

[Tycobbler]

I get frustrated too and pre-ordering is voluntary. I see it as an investment in a very small company that I want to keep in business. YMMV.

Amen! This quote speaks volumes. Better to wait and continue to invest in OOTP then have to settle for less.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by RchW

Look you have the right to post your opinion and in part I agree with you but please do some basic math before you make a silly statement like the above.

Let's say 2000 copies sold at $30 (I know that different countries may pay more).

2000 X 30 = 60,000 invest at 3.25% (that's current prime rate, I don't know anyone who could get that without locking up the funds for some time).

$60,000 at 3.25% = $1950/4 = $487.50 is the realized interest for 3 months (Feb 19 to May 19). Even if you double the presale to 4000 copies he would not clear $1000 in interest.

Now that doesn't factor that he has to pay himself, and the employees/partner. He pays Elicense off the top line for every copy sold. He pays bandwidth, credit card fees etc. It is very unlikely that any of that money is sitting in an investment account getting any interest at all.

I get frustrated too and pre-ordering is voluntary. I see it as an investment in a very small company that I want to keep in business. YMMV.

I was hoping someone would come in and do this... I was too tired to do the math last night.

[toddgregory]

i have no interest in getting into a Math arguement with anyone. However, I will point out a few things.

#1- No one but the OOTP people know how many presales they have made

#2- as far as the expenses that OOTP occurs, I am fairly sure that all those expenses are factored in prior to determining any discount.

#3-Regardless of the math, consumers must remember that virtually all discounts, sales, closeouts, deals, coupons, or other specials benefit the SELLER MUCH MUCH more than the consumer. I don't know of any business that will offer any discount to help the consumer UNLESS that seller benefits from that discount by recouping the discount in some other way.

#4-While you may view your prepayment as an investment in OOTP 10, i certainly hope mine is not. I hope that OOTP is viable enough to produce version 10 without needing my advance order.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by toddgregory

(the discount they offer probably pales in comparision to the amount of interest they have accumulated off preorder funds since February 19th)

i like math, so here we go....

1000 copies at 3% interest (compounded monthly) = $10,000 in lost discounted sales, and $2780 in interest.

2000 copies at 3% interest (compounded monthly) = $20,000 in lost discounted sales, and $5561 in interest.

4000 copies at 3% interest (compounded monthly) = $40,000 in lost discounted sales, and $11,123 in interest.

For giggles, lets say that Markus has found the interest mother load

1000 copies at 10% interest (compounded monthly) = $10,000 in lost discounted sales, and $9926 in interest.

2000 copies at 10% interest (compounded monthly) = $20,000 in lost discounted sales, and $19,583 in interest.

4000 copies at 10% interest (compounded monthly) = $40,000 in lost discounted sales, and $39,706 in interest.


As you can see, even if Markus found somewhere that paid him 10% interest, compounded monthly, he still would not recoup the amount of money lost from the preorder discount.


Now to recoup the amount lost from the preorder discount, Markus needs to sell 33% more copies of the game to break even. So if he was going to sell 2000 copies, to break even, he needs to sell 2660 copies at the discounted price.

[toddgregory]

Perhaps your math has slayed me... So will retract the mathematical portion of my commentary only.

Well played!

[jabrown6940]

Thanks, guys, for this morning's chuckle. I needed this to get my day rolling.

[spleen1015]

I have no idea what Markus does year round. I can deduce from my experience in my years here that he doesn't get started coding the new, annual release until it is too late to get started for an Opening Day release.

If it were me, my yearly calendar would be aligned with releasing the week or so prior to Opening Day.

[jmknpk2]

The Lahman database for 2008 has been out for some time now. If it were possible to use the updated database with OOTP9, I believe it would satisfy a lot of the anxiousness for OOTPX after real life opening day. It's probably too late to get a change like that into OOTPX, but if the future includes regularly releasing the game after opening day, I think it would be much appreciated.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I have no idea what Markus does year round.

You didn't know that he's a member of the German national Beerfest team?

[Markus Heinsohn]

The answer to the original question: Two days prior to release

[never_ends]

I'd buy the game even if it came out in September (actually I want it yesterday)

Markus dedication year in year out to making it a great game is unbelievable. Gotta keep him going!

The new features in OOTP 10 look pretty good.