Mac/Linux and Paypal

[kcroyalgm]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

QFT.

I laugh at the idiocy of putting someone on ignore for speaking the plain truth just because it conflicts with their paranoia.

Call me stupid, but I don't know QFT.
Why quote and talk about idiocy when I, for once, agreed with you.
Anyway . . . . .
enuf

[treedom]

Originally Posted by kcroyalgm

Call me stupid, but I don't know QFT.
Why quote and talk about idiocy when I, for once, agreed with you.

Heh. Maybe you should go ahead and look up 'QFT'.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by treedom

Heh. Maybe you should go ahead and look up 'QFT'.

I got lost at the point it started talking about Hilbert Spaces of complex values...

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I laugh at the idiocy of putting someone on ignore for speaking the plain truth just because it conflicts with their paranoia.

This reads like an inverse D'Artagnon post =0

[kcroyalgm]

Originally Posted by treedom

Heh. Maybe you should go ahead and look up 'QFT'.

Not a bad idea.

Question:
What is "QFT"? While participating in an online discussion forum, you see this weird expression "QFT". People post phrases like "QFT...well said" and "QFT +1".


Answer:
This peculiar QFT acronym expression stands for "Quoted For Truth". It is an expression of agreement and support, where the user stands behind you and one of your statements. This commonly occurs in controversial topics where opinions are very heated, and people will choose sides in an argument. If someone "quotes you for truth", they are paying you a compliment, and siding with you in the discussion.

[Malleus Dei]

If you are going to buy things off of the Internet then you have a limited number of choices. Using Paypal is the best of the existing choices. Why? Because if you use Paypal your credit card and/or account information is recorded in only one spot. If you don't use Paypal, it's recorded in as many sites as you buy from.

If I buy a game from Whatever Software using Paypal Whatever does not get my credit card number. If I use my credit card to buy it then they do. If I have bought 35 games from Whatever and 34 other companies like them, then my credit card info is out there in 35 places, and if any one of them gets hacked then my card info is loose, and you can bet that not all 35 companies have state of the art protection against hacking like Paypal does. Because of the number of places that my card info has to be if I don't use Paypal and the lower levels of computer security involved, every time I use my credit card instead of Paypal I dramatically increase the chance of having fraud committed against me. Whereas if I use Paypal the only way anyone can get to my credit card info is to hack Paypal, which is only one site and an extremely hardened one to boot.

Using Paypal is just common sense, but there's no law requiring you to think, or to use common sense, or to act intelligently, so do whatever the Hell you want to. But being afraid to use Paypal is a lot like being an old codger I know who is afraid of putting any of his money in a bank because you know, that damned bank just might fail one day and not give him his money back.

[RebelFan]

Look at who started this thread, it was Markus, the publisher of the game. He apparently thought the Paypal issue was important enough to post a "Sticky" saying he was going to look into the matter. Since no update has been posted in almost two months and the game is to be released soon, I and others have posted here simply asking for an update from Marcus, who I point out again, started the thread.

While we have had no update from Markus, which I think is not very responsive service, we have been called "crazy paranoid" by "The Wolf" and accused of not using common sense or acting intelligently by "Malleus Dei"

Now I understand why people like "The Wolf" and "Mallus Dei" have thousands of posts. They apparently have nothing better to do with their time than respond to serious questions by hurling insults at the people who ask the questions without in anyway answering the questions. I get it, YOU LOVE PAYPAL. That's great. But don't I have the right to ask Markus for an update on a thread (I'll say it again) which he started with being subjected to insults?

Here's a suggestion, if you don't have anything useful to say, then don't say anything.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RebelFan

I get it, YOU LOVE PAYPAL.

We all get it too: you're uneducatable. Good luck having your identity stolen.

Originally Posted by RebelFan

Here's a suggestion, if you don't have anything useful to say, then don't say anything.

If you took your own advice you never would have posted anything here at all.

[norva13x]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

We all get it too: you're uneducatable. Good luck having your identity stolen.



If you took your own advice you never would have posted anything here at all.

Why are you being such an A hole?
I am with RebelFan in that I don't want to use PayPal either. Neither of us gives a damn what you think of that. No need to insult someone because they don't want to use a certain service. Why you even care or bothered to post here on this thread is beyond me. I hope we do get an update on this as the wait has been getting ridiculously long.

[The Wolf]

I was trying to save you from your own paranoia, but what the heck, it's become clear that you enjoy it so much that it's pointless to make any further effort to educate you about reality.

So have fun taking unnecessary chances.

[norva13x]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I was trying to save you from your own paranoia, but what the heck, it's become clear that you enjoy it so much that it's pointless to make any further effort to educate you about reality.

So have fun taking unnecessary chances.

Have fun being a douche bag.
I don't need saving from the likes of you.
And sorry if I don't take advice from someone with your attitude.
Besides, this thread has nothing to do with the merits of PayPal, just whether or not Mac/Linux users have to use it.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by norva13x

I don't need saving from the likes of you.
And sorry if I don't take advice from someone with your attitude.

You need saving from the likes of anything that you can ever get it from, and you should take advice from anyone who will deign to give it to you, because whoever they are, they still know more than you do.

[morningstar8]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

If you are going to buy things off of the Internet then you have a limited number of choices. Using Paypal is the best of the existing choices. Why? Because if you use Paypal your credit card and/or account information is recorded in only one spot. If you don't use Paypal, it's recorded in as many sites as you buy from.

...if I use Paypal the only way anyone can get to my credit card info is to hack Paypal, which is only one site and an extremely hardened one to boot.

Using Paypal is just common sense, but there's no law requiring you to think, or to use common sense, or to act intelligently, so do whatever the Hell you want to. But being afraid to use Paypal is a lot like being an old codger I know who is afraid of putting any of his money in a bank because you know, that damned bank just might fail one day and not give him his money back.

Hey, Malleus! I appreciate your decently cogent defense of PayPal. I also appreciate the relative lack of ad hominem attack...well, at least until your last paragraph. (Was that really necessary?)

What your argument didn't address, though, is the issues I originally brought up; namely, that sections 1.6, 1.9, 14.3, 14.4, and 14.13 of the contract are objectionable, and I will not agree to them solely to buy OOTP 10. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I like to read things that I'm about to agree to. I'm okay with providing credit card info to PayPal -- I've done it in the past -- but not under those terms, which appear to protect PayPal from me, but do nothing to protect me from PayPal.

You find it to your benefit to agree to PayPal's terms to buy the things you want to buy online. That's great; good for you! But I don't buy from lots of small internet-based vendors. As far as I'm concerned, it's common sense to avoid PayPal's agreement rather than agree to it just to buy one game. Even if it's as cool as OOTP 10.

[norva13x]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You need saving from the likes of anything that you can ever get it from, and you should take advice from anyone who will deign to give it to you, because whoever they are, they still know more than you do.

That is exactly why I won't take advice from you, you obviously can't give it without belittling others. You need some serious lessons in interpersonal communication

[Curtis]

To — morningstar8, RebelFan and norva13x (and from other recent threads CONN CHRIS, canadiancreed, jbergy22, rudel.dietrich, BruceM and dave1927p):

It has been brought to my attention that on this board the process for getting offensive posts removed is complaint driven. What that means is that moderators will not give warnings for making offensive posts, nor will they require that a poster take down an offensive post, UNLESS SOMEONE REPORTS IT through the regular channels.

The Wolf knows this, and he takes advantage of the natural tendency of boys to want to deal with problem children themselves, rather than by reporting them to a teacher. He, on the other hand, has no problem reporting you when you beat him in one of these exchanges.* He knows the system, and he plays it masterfully.

My recommendation is to either put him on your 'Ignore' list, or REPORT HIM when he becomes offensive. If he got half a dozen warnings, it might at least slow him down. Trying to deal with him yourself is playing by his rules, and that's a sucker's game.

*=I know this because when I beat him, he reported me. That's how the complaint driven process was brought to my attention. The moderator who had to deal with it told me that he saw nothing offensive in my post, but because it was reported I had to either edit it or be given a warning. That was the day The Wolf went on my 'Ignore' list. Hey, once I beat him, there was no reason to keep playing.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by Curtis

The moderator who had to deal with it told me that he saw nothing offensive in my post, but because it was reported I had to either edit it or be given a warning.

I question the intelligence of this system.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by treedom

I question the intelligence of this system.

So do I, but since The Wolf takes advantage of it, why shouldn't the posters he's bothering? It's gaming the system, but we're all gamers here.

[RebelFan]

Curtis

Thanks for taking the time to post your advice.

I was actually rather enjoying getting "The Wolf" all riled-up, but it really wasn't much of a challenge. In the future, I will simply ignore his posts. There doesn't seem to be much to be gained by putting him on report. Since even if he was banned, which I doubt would happen since there seems to be little monitoring by the administrators of this forum, he would just log in with a new name. There are a few people like him on every forum, but I guess it's a rather harmless outlet for their anger.

I guess what is bothering me is the lack of any response from Markus, PisdPaul, etc. on the purchase and license issues involving the Mac version which they said they were working on back in February. It would only take a minute to come on and say "we tried but we couldn't come up with a different way" or "we are still working on it."

I guess I'll wait a week or so and raise these questions in a new thread since it appears no one in "management" is looking at the Sticky threads which they created. But, I don't plan on buying the new version until they respond to these questions and it doesn't have to be the response I prefer.

[Malleus Dei]

Tree, unsurprisingly, questions the system. Me, I question posters who get angry over facts. When facts make you angry that's a really good sign that your position on the issue is seriously in error.

Back to the system. As the guy with the most experience here I can tell you how the system was supposed to work, because I've been here since OOTP1 on the original board. The original idea was that you could argue ideas, but not insult people directly. In other words, I could post "Treedom, that's the stupidest idea I've ever seen," and that would be okay, but if I posted "Treedom, you're the stupidest person I've ever seen," (and no, he's not, I am just making an example) then that would not be okay. This worked for a while, but then some real jerks hit the board and we had people routinely brutally insulting each other (some admittedly in self-defense) and people posting that they wished other people were dead and so forth and things got really out of hand. Finally the jerks left or were banned, and things improved. But since then the personnel handling enforcement have changed, and changed again, and changed yet again, and with every change it seems that more of the original concept has been forgotten and that enforcement has become more and more subjective and personal and that all of the lines have blurred, and when you add in that the enforcement staff - and I hate to say this but it's true - really isn't what it should be, then you get the mess we are all in.

I'd like to see the board go back to the very clear original concept that we can argue ideas but not directly insult people but I have no expectations of it ever happening. In the meantime I try to function in arguments voluntarily under the original rules.

Back on topic, I know someone who keeps his money under a rug upstairs in his house because he doesn't trust banks. I know someone who won't get a credit card because he doesn't trust credit card companies. I know someone who won't use a check card, someone who won't pay bills online, someone who won't use an online financial system, someone who won't order off the Internet, someone who won't use Ebay, and now, through this board, people who won't use Paypal, all because of what looks to me like utterly unreasonable fears. For here I am, an old guy who gets senior citizen discounts without having to ask for them, a grandfather and a serious conservative, and I use all of those things without a second thought. Go figure.

[DenverZeppo]

So, there's been copious amounts of flaming, and a great lesson on how to handle the people who feel like flaming...

But there still isn't an answer to our question. I don't eBay, and I don't shop anywhere else in the known internet for anything...except this game.

Am I going to be forced to set up a Paypal account (which I simply don't want because I don't want it), or did we find another way to do this? Why doesn't OOTP/whomever else is collecting my money, just set themselves up to accept credit cards?

Heck...my iPhone lets me take credit cards now. A friend of mine tossed me the hundred bucks he owed me right through my iPhone on his debit card. If I can set that up in ten minutes how come OOTP Developments can't?

Zep