Early OOTP10 suggestions

[ttsec]

I'm adding another vote for female players.

Perhaps even have limit female/male players for mixed leagues, much like the current foreign players limit.

In my multiple years of playing in mixed-gender leagues, I've never seen a woman play catcher or attempt to play catcher. In fact, every woman in the leagues have been 1B.

The Wolf needs to get out more; MLB isn't the only baseball in the world. The motto of the game is "It's your game, play it your way!" Therefore, to work on the main game would be adding more features, options, and customization, and to consider those a waste of time would be going against the very heart and soul of the game.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by ttsec

I'm adding another vote for female players.

Perhaps even have limit female/male players for mixed leagues, much like the current foreign players limit.

In my multiple years of playing in mixed-gender leagues, I've never seen a woman play catcher or attempt to play catcher. In fact, every woman in the leagues have been 1B.

Good idea. I personally think a lot of people on this board are far too touchy about women playing baseball.

The motto of the game is "It's your game, play it your way!" Therefore, to work on the main game would be adding more features, options, and customization, and to consider those a waste of time would be going against the very heart and soul of the game.

Exactly. The point of the game is customization, let us customize more.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

I dont like the famale idea too much, and not because im sexist....i truly am not.

but there's a reason why there's a seperation between the sexes in all sports, and that, simply, is because men truly, biologically ARE stronger, in most cases, MUCH MUCH stronger than women. seeing a female catcher being bulldozed by a 300 Lb man who can bench press 500 would send shivers down my spine...

Have you watched much women's fast pitch softball? If you have, you wouldn't worry about such things. Most of the catchers you see there are as tough as nails and would give you a big can of whoop ass for saying so.

[The Wolf]

Massive silliness. This is a baseball simulator, not a soccer simulator. And, no, LGO, there is neither relegation nor women in baseball; what you brought up is not real baseball.

Once OOTP actually gets baseball right, which has not happened yet and is a long way from happening, these requests to turn OOTP into another European soccer simulation will not be so silly and irritating. In the meantime, they would be a stupid waste of resources that should be spent on making OOTP's simulation of baseball more accurate.

There's a company called SI who makes games for people like you guys. Or maybe, since you are all so very clearly fond of science fiction and fantasy, you should all try something like Blood Bowl. Or a hobbit league.

But in the meantime please take the soccer requests elsewhere and let the best baseball simulator available stay focused on simulating actual baseball.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

As for The Wolf, he hates any suggestion for anything that isn't currently used in MLB, so ignore him.

As to you and your ilk, since you only care for everything that _isn't_ baseball, _you_ are the ones who need to be ignored.

The MLB _is_ baseball. OOTP recognizes this - at least to date. All of the silly little shadow spinoffs LGO loves are trivial; Papi Ortiz by himself is more significant to baseball than the lot of them are.

Simulating the MLB has to be the top simulation priority in a baseball simulation. That goes without saying. OOTP has an MLB quickstart and makes every historical MLB season available, built-in. Why? Because OOTP realizes that the MLB really is baseball, as do 99% of the actual customer base (as opposed to those who hang out on the boards).

Once OOTP has the MLB down cold there will be time for your soccer and women's and hobbit leagues, and it is now a long way from there. Trying to mess the game up now with byes, women, and relegation will do nothing but waste time and resources make the game look really silly if it all comes to pass while the MLB simulation remains incomplete. Having a first-class MLB simulator is what will help the game succeed with the mass of potential customers out there; anything that takes focus away from that MLB simulation can only hurt the game's success.

[Dave1408]

Pardon my quick and somewhat vague response, but i seem to remember an SI game, not sure but it might have been an older version of EHM, or actually might have been an older version of Baseball Mogul, where women players came into the league a couple years down the road after you began a season.

I might be wrong but i'm pretty sure i've seen a game have this functionality so i'm not really sure why it would be a problem bringing this into OOTP.
If anything, it would be customizable (you would be able to turn it off) so anyone who was against it could just not play with it on!

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Massive silliness. This is a baseball simulator, not a soccer simulator. And, no, LGO, there is neither relegation nor women in baseball; what you brought up is not real baseball.

Once OOTP actually gets baseball right, which has not happened yet and is a long way from happening, these requests to turn OOTP into another European soccer simulation will not be so silly and irritating. In the meantime, they would be a stupid waste of resources that should be spent on making OOTP's simulation of baseball more accurate.

There's a company called SI who makes games for people like you guys. Or maybe, since you are all so very clearly fond of science fiction and fantasy, you should all try something like Blood Bowl. Or a hobbit league.

But in the meantime please take the soccer requests elsewhere and let the best baseball simulator available stay focused on simulating actual baseball.

I have to say that some of these requests are the ones that somewhat scare me on the direction the game could potentially take. While I love the current V9 and it has turned me into an addict there are current things that I would like to see improved or better simulated than most of these requests.

What about ball park factors being tied to the size of the playing field, or better simulating a pitchers career peak and decline tied to strikeouts and walks. Scheduling design needs to be improved eventhough it is very difficult. Heck I would even rather see a more intuitive jersey, ballcap design feature.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Good idea. I personally think a lot of people on this board are far too touchy about women playing baseball.



Exactly. The point of the game is customization, let us customize more.

While I would agree with you in a perfect world I worry about long term maintenance and sustainability. Markus is one person and there are only so many hours in a day. The more cusomization, the more design, the more design, the more support. Heck he just got L/R splits to work correctly and that had to be done with a patch so even basic baseball concepts have the potential to be overlooked. So, he has a lot going on and while ideally all of your ideas should be incorporated I would rather perfect as best as possible the current baseball standard.

[ttsec]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The MLB _is_ baseball.

So I guess I was actually playing soccer all those years in Little League and Pony League. I'm confused why MLB would draft players out of college and high school when all they play in HS and NCAA is soccer, not baseball. What's that thing they play in the Dominican Republic? All those soccer players turning into elite baseball players right off the bat (no pun intended), wow.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

While I would agree with you in a perfect world I worry about long term maintenance and sustainability. Markus is one person and there are only so many hours in a day. The more cusomization, the more design, the more design, the more support. Heck he just got L/R splits to work correctly and that had to be done with a patch so even basic baseball concepts have the potential to be overlooked. So, he has a lot going on and while ideally all of your ideas should be incorporated I would rather perfect as best as possible the current baseball standard.

I've mentioned this before: the priority of OOTP should be to replicate as best as possible the real world baseball "model". Any other feature, like waivers or byes, is a welcomed addition that makes the baseball model more interesting, but it shouldn't be the game's priority.

Now, from the moment the model is put in place and works well (which it might never do... it's probably a very hard thing to construct), it's all a matter of preference. OOTP has made a commitment to historical gaming, to contemporary MLB and to customizability. That's a whole lot of people to please. If MLB became a computer version of card games and historical replays, a whole lot of people would be turned off. If there weren't any capacity for historical rosters, then some other people would be turned off.

Basically, what I mean is that once the baseball model is done right, every added feature benefits a certain crowd. The Wolf doesn't care for byes (although he still hasn't explained how it makes OOTP a soccer game), while I do. Perhaps he cares for accurate 2008 minor league rosters, while I don't care at all. There's only so many features that can please everyone, but that doesn't mean that features that only please a certain crowd will ruin the game or turn it into a soccer game (or a card game).

[swampdragon]

My leading wish for 19th century replays is fatigue reset ability through the editing screen to make one man rotations actually play out as one man rotations.

[Mattymo]

One of my main suggestions has been to somehow enable an "importance level" for each game...based off fan base/standings/ownership, and to also enable a way to either create rivalry's or have the game automatically create rivalry's.

If the Yankees are playing the Pirates in June, it's really not that big of a deal normally, so the importance level could be a 2/10. However, a game vs. the Sox in September when they are 1 game out would have a 9/10 (A W.S. game would be a 10/10 for sure).

I'm not sure if the players/coaches actually know how important a game is...I've never seen the AI putting out the Ace pitcher in relief on 2 days rest b/c it's win or go home. However, if the human GM or AI GM were able to set the importance level of the game, perhaps that would happen.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Simulating the MLB has to be the top simulation priority in a baseball simulation. That goes without saying. OOTP has an MLB quickstart and makes every historical MLB season available, built-in. Why? Because OOTP realizes that the MLB really is baseball, as do 99% of the actual customer base (as opposed to those who hang out on the boards).

Exactly. If Markus and company want to make this game grow it has to be marketed to the masses and that means MLB baseball. Other than this board I have never seen anyone ask for women in a baseball game. Though I'm sure now someone will google it and say "why you're wrong here's one poster on board Z that wants it in the game too." thinking they've struck gold.

I have seen many former and potential new players pass on buying current OOTP versions (SI's v2006,2007 and OOTP Dev v8,9) of the game due to the fact that current MLB rosters have too many problems. I have never seen anyone who passed on the game say "Well, until Markus puts women in the game I won't be buying." Again feel free to knock yourself out finding the one post on the whole internet where this happened and then give yourself a pat on the back because that is all it will be worth.

I say it every time it comes up, it's just not worth it on a cost benefit level. Not enough people will use it or buy the game because of it to make it worth the time to code. Leave ways for the mod community to do it and call it good enough.

We could go on and on about this but wouldn't it just be easier to link to last years thread? http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...s-leagues.html

[cnield]

Wolf, I understand your concerns about how none of these suggestions adding to the "MLB-ness" of OOTP. However, a considerable part of the game is fictional as well. Just because my avatar is a soccer logo and I ask for promotion/relegation doesn't mean I want to turn OOTP into FM. There are online leagues out there (WBH being the best example) that use promotion/relegation as a key part of their setup, and I imagine if it were easier to do, more leagues would use it. I think it would add another level to playing as a bottom feeding team, because of the mad scramble to avoid relegation that kicks off every year. There's no incentive to tank your team for a higher draft pick if you lose out of being in the top league. Markus is making a baseball simulator, not a MLB simulator, so I don't see why new non-MLB ideas shouldn't be suggested. It's all up to him what goes in the game anyway, and if there's some interest, I don't see why I can't advocate for it.

[Sweed]

dola

As for the ideas other than women I do think they have merit. Priority becoming the issue in my mind, not whether or not they should be done.

I would think the scheduling ideas would be the easiest to implement while the league interactions would be the hardest to get right. I would leave it to Markus to decide where these things fall into his plan and how best to get them in the game while continuing to develop the 2d model he says is coming which I would imagine is a BIG feature to add taking a lot of time to get right.

[Mattymo]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

As to you and your ilk, since you only care for everything that _isn't_ baseball, _you_ are the ones who need to be ignored.

The MLB _is_ baseball. OOTP recognizes this - at least to date. All of the silly little shadow spinoffs LGO loves are trivial; Papi Ortiz by himself is more significant to baseball than the lot of them are.

Simulating the MLB has to be the top simulation priority in a baseball simulation. That goes without saying. OOTP has an MLB quickstart and makes every historical MLB season available, built-in. Why? Because OOTP realizes that the MLB really is baseball, as do 99% of the actual customer base (as opposed to those who hang out on the boards).

Once OOTP has the MLB down cold there will be time for your soccer and women's and hobbit leagues, and it is now a long way from there. Trying to mess the game up now with byes, women, and relegation will do nothing but waste time and resources make the game look really silly if it all comes to pass while the MLB simulation remains incomplete. Having a first-class MLB simulator is what will help the game succeed with the mass of potential customers out there; anything that takes focus away from that MLB simulation can only hurt the game's success.

I agree with this post 100%. OOTP wants fans...and the majority of fans are a) From the U.S. and b) interested in MLB.

If I were on the market looking for a new game and saw a game whose features included women's leagues, accurate European leagues and other "unusual" things, I'd very turned off...I'd feel like I was buying "Backyard Baseball" or something silly.

I'm all for customizability, but a company has to please the majority of its target audience. For good or bad, people like The Wolf and myself are OOTP's target audience. We like to play MLB games, or something close to it (I like to create fictional leagues within my universe similar to MLB with different "quirks").

I'm all for an easy way to do promotion/relegation, but I'd rather just be a simple workaround (which it is) rather than an integrated feature.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

My leading wish for 19th century replays is fatigue reset ability through the editing screen to make one man rotations actually play out as one man rotations.

You can use a custom schedule for that.

Wolf, since we all know what you don't want, what do you want to see in the next version of the game?

I have no problem with your opinion at all, except that I don't agree with it. This thread shouldn't turn into a discussion of what's baseball and what isn't, that isn't the point of the thread.

The thread is about what you want to see in OOTP10, not what you don't want to see.

[cody8200]

I've got to agree with Wolf on almost everything he said. I can't imagine any of the things the OP saying (other than feeder leagues) being the slightest bit interesting for Markus to program. I also don't think they would make sense from a business perspective. There are so many things that can be improved upon that actually deal with real baseball, MLB baseball, that it would be ridiculous to spend the time necessary to do all of the weird requests.

A few examples, an entirely different news format (newspaper) or much improved news categories. Rivalries between teams that are dynamic and build through the years. Player/manager interaction directly with each other and through the press.

I understand LGO's request for more customization when it comes to playoffs and bye's but the other things (women, relegation, etc) would just be crazy to spend any amount of time on.

[Cryomaniac]

Just to clear something up, it wasn't me that mentioned relegation. I don't particularly like it in Soccer as it is, and I certainly wouldn't use it in a baseball game. The bold is there because that doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

My opinion generally is that as long as there is still improvement in the main areas of the game (AI, realistic stats, etc.) it's not a waste of resources to add something else. So I suppose I (very broadly) agree with Wolf that there needs to be more realism, but I disagree that realism should be entirely at the expense of optional extras.

[Vinny P.]

i was thinking more along the lines of women's, and mixed leagues. The game is already large and complicated enough as it is with mens leagues only. Imagine, if you will, adding more ratings on whether players or male or female. because, as someone said, females wont be pitching 95 mph fastballs, and instead be pitching mostly junkballs.

i dunno, im no expert or anything, but i can only imagine all the extra coding that would have to go into determining the ratings system between female league, mixed leagues and mens leagues.

as for relegation, i think thats a pretty nifty idea, however, it is not something that im particularly looking for. yes the europeans use it, but then again, europeans are not known for baseball. look at the asians, they have a very similar format to the MLB (which is THE gold standard baseball league in the world). The mexican leagues are set up american style, so are all the carribean winter leagues as well as the south american leagues. as far as im concerned, the european style relagation leagues can just wait until the day that markus FINALLY has OOTP completely absolutely perfected, which is probably quite an impossible task to do

as for me, im am very pleased and very satisfied with the game, and more and better improvements are more than welcome.