Trading: House Rules and Settings

[SittingDuck]

I believe they would work if you started the game, entered the values and hit 'apply'. But once you closed the game, they would revert back to default.

Could be wrong on that... But I know they didn't work properly in the last version.

[TribeFanInNC]

Yeah, that is a smart idea dagmar. I like it.

[Nukester]

My trade settings are on hard/favor prospects, with a non-recalc historical league. Here are a few things I do to keep myself in check.

Usually limit myself to 1-1 trades. Once in a great while I might do a 2-2 trade if the players and conditions are right for both teams.

I almost exclusivly use the shop player feature only. I find that I get much better trade offers using the "make this work now" feature than if I uses "shop player". Shop player almost always gives me very crappy offers, but once in a blue moon Ill see something I think is a good deal. The mostly crappy offers from shop player keeps my trades at a good slow rate.

Once in a while, just to keep it fun since thats the idea of a game, Ill make a trade based on my financial condition, or other teams finacial conditions and current philosophies (win now, neutral, rebuilding). If my projected budget is very low (no matter what, I HAVE to have a positive budget at the end of the season) and I think I need to dump a high salary player, Ill look for teams that are rebuilding (if Im dumping a youger guy) or win now (if Im dumping an older established type player), and that have alot of room in their projected budget. If I am in the playoff hunt and want a player to help out, Ill look for teams that are very low in projected budget and are rebuilding, and I might take a high priced player off their hands. I never trade with neutral teams, unless its though shop player, or if they make an offer to me. If a team makes an offer to me, then I can accept/reject at will.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

Man, that is smart. I posted something about this in the historicals section about making initial contracts in a full history historical league. It is along these lines, but you're absolutely right - especially in the Jan-Apr months you have to alter the values because the resigning is way too easy.

Good call! Here's how I'm going to run it:

Jan-Apr = 55-0-30-15
May = 55-10-25-10
June = 55-15-20-10
July = 55-20-15-10
Aug-Dec = 55-25-15-5

That is why I limit my resignings up until the trading deadline. After the deadline, that is when I start looking at my free agent list and begin resigning the players I want to keep.

As for trading, I don't really participate too much in trading myself. MAYBE 1 or 2 throughout the season. Besides, I am kind of one of those "loyal gm"-types. Most of my players are personally hand-picked and groomed throughout my organization. I don't think I will do any draft pick trading when I upgrade my league to 9. That would not seem fair. I would prefer that my team stay in the lower half of the draft.

By grooming my own players, with guys who are drafted lower like that, it is a true, real-world challenge throughout the season (I play all of my games out.) If I end up with some major injury somewhere, I like to check the waiver-wire, and maybe shop a couple of minor league (who are above age 25 in AAA) for a replacement vet, especially if the player that was injured was one of my #1-3 starters.

My AAA I allow my players to age to about 30. Once they are older than 30, they get released. AA is about 27 or 28 max. A is NEVER above age 25. Low A is the same as High.

Rookie League players are sometimes some of those players that I am loyal too that will make the hall. I want them to retire from my organization so my team is represented in the Hall. That is for players that are way over the hill and no longer effective major leaguers. I have this SP that just REFUSES to retire, he's now 46 years old (another Julio Franco perhaps?) He's down in Rookie, and is content.

Other than that, I'll leave my Rookie league for players who are under 25, with low potential. Soon as they reach 25, they get released if there are any other players on that team's bench. especially if a younger player is on the bench waiting for some playing time.

If there is a hole that needs filled on one of my minor league rosters, I will look for the youngest free agent for that position who does not insist on signing a major league contract.

Any holes that need filled in one of MY roster spots, will either have one of my AAA players called up, or I will sign the best FA available. If that fails, I look to the waiver wire. If there is nothing there, ONLY THEN will I initiate a trade to get the spot filled. During that trade I initiate, I will go all out aggressive trying to get the best player possible.

Using these house rules, I find it is very very difficult to field a play-off contending team. So if I happen to "rip-off" the AI once or twice a season, so be it. Much easier than looking at other teams' full organizations, then going to control you opponents team to try to make sure they are not doing something stupid.

With a league of 30 teams, that seems too time-consuming. I am only concerned with my own team, with my own limitations I put on myself.

[SittingDuck]

I was also thinking that those values get a better contract value for AI players as well.

This is turning into a good thread.

[SittingDuck]

hola,

WOW! Just hit opening day and after looking at the various signings (I have scouting OFF/coaching ON), I am floored by how reasonable the extensions are that I am seeing.

Cannot thank Dagmar enough for the tip. This looks to change a lot about the annoying financials aspects of the game.

[neojonas]

It'd be nice if Markus saw this thread. It'd add a lot to the game if he could allow users to define these rules in the game.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

Man, that is smart. I posted something about this in the historicals section about making initial contracts in a full history historical league. It is along these lines, but you're absolutely right - especially in the Jan-Apr months you have to alter the values because the resigning is way too easy.

Good call! Here's how I'm going to run it:

Jan-Apr = 55-0-30-15
May = 55-10-25-10
June = 55-15-20-10
July = 55-20-15-10
Aug-Dec = 55-25-15-5

That is why I limit my resignings up until the trading deadline. After the deadline, that is when I start looking at my free agent list and begin resigning the players I want to keep.

As for trading, I don't really participate too much in trading myself. MAYBE 1 or 2 throughout the season. Besides, I am kind of one of those "loyal gm"-types. Most of my players are personally hand-picked and groomed throughout my organization. I don't think I will do any draft pick trading when I upgrade my league to 9. That would not seem fair. I would prefer that my team stay in the lower half of the draft.

By grooming my own players, with guys who are drafted lower like that, it is a true, real-world challenge throughout the season (I play all of my games out.) If I end up with some major injury somewhere, I like to check the waiver-wire, and maybe shop a couple of minor league (who are above age 25 in AAA) for a replacement vet, especially if the player that was injured was one of my #1-3 starters.

My AAA I allow my players to age to about 30. Once they are older than 30, they get released. AA is about 27 or 28 max. A is NEVER above age 25. Low A is the same as High.

Rookie League players are sometimes some of those players that I am loyal too that will make the hall. I want them to retire from my organization so my team is represented in the Hall. That is for players that are way over the hill and no longer effective major leaguers. I have this SP that just REFUSES to retire, he's now 46 years old (another Julio Franco perhaps?) He's down in Rookie, and is content.

Other than that, I'll leave my Rookie league for players who are under 25, with low potential. Soon as they reach 25, they get released if there are any other players on that team's bench. especially if a younger player is on the bench waiting for some playing time.

If there is a hole that needs filled on one of my minor league rosters, I will look for the youngest free agent for that position who does not insist on signing a major league contract.

Any holes that need filled in one of MY roster spots, will either have one of my AAA players called up, or I will sign the best FA available. If that fails, I look to the waiver wire. If there is nothing there, ONLY THEN will I initiate a trade to get the spot filled. During that trade I initiate, I will go all out aggressive trying to get the best player possible.

Using these house rules, I find it is very very difficult to field a play-off contending team. So if I happen to "rip-off" the AI once or twice a season, so be it. Much easier than looking at other teams' full organizations, then going to control you opponents team to try to make sure they are not doing something stupid.

With a league of 30 teams, that seems too time-consuming. I am only concerned with my own team, with my own limitations I put on myself.

[SittingDuck]

You wouldn't happen to be a bot, would you? The same post was made back in #24.

Curiousness....

[dagmar]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Since version 6? I could have sworn a logged issue in OOTP2007 and OOTP8 was the fact the changes made here didn't "stick". Meaning, they only lasted one day or one session or something. I'll go back and try to find that thread again.

If this does work in 8, I want to start using it right away, I just never did after I read that thread.

Was that the reason why changing the AI Evaluation ratings constantly was thought to be ineffective after v6?

Anyhow, to me, it seems like it's working in the salary field. I have default 2008 salary settings, and I have not seen any astronomical extensions/signings thus far. All have been reasonable, and I'm already into my 5th season. (i play with fictional players, but with an MLB set-up)


Despite the monthly ratings shuffle, I still see the computer make some funky waiver moves with their blue chippers. I usually just leave those players alone (one of my house rules) though. This only really happens before the trade deadline though. After the deadline, the computer, after an unsuccessful waiver wire trade, is real good at pulling back their good players from waivers. Still, I'd want to see something done to limit those 4 to 5 star prospects from being waived like that pre-7/31.

Anyhow, the ratings I use, if I remember to change them around on the last day of every month, are:
jan-apr: 50, 0, 30, 20
may: 50, 5, 30, 15
june: 50, 10, 30, 10
july: 50, 15, 30, 5
august: 50, 20, 30, 0
sept-dec: 50, 25, 25, 0

I've never deviated from those values, as I'm too lazy to experiment and it seems like their working out for me, so why fiddle with them? =D

[dagmar]

Oh yah, my house rules:

Hard with a favor prospects settings.

I don't pick up the computer's blue chip waivers. They usually just want to put them back in the minors when that happens, so I let them.

If I'm having a losing season and I have a contract year player that will not re-sign with me for whatever reason or veterans with $$ that I want to dump, I will only trade them to play-off contenders for prospects. The contenders have to be weak in the same position as the player I'm trying to deal though. As for their prospects, I will only nab the ones a few years away from the bigs.

If I'm having a winning season, I usually trade my prospects for veterans of teams trying to unload/cellar dwellers. I'm more eager to take on bad contracts, as I have a Win Now! philosophy. Again, I make sure it's someone that the CPU could afford giving up (like they have some stud rookie waiting for a shot at a starting role).

But usually, I try to not trade and concentrate on building from w/in.


and oh yah, I never use Force Trades and I try not to trade w/in my division.

Nothing new for most of you guys though.

I know I do a whole lot more, but it's late here and I can't think anymore.

[Mntwins]

I did a bad thing...I shopped my aging high priced catcher so I could dump his contract.
I couldn't help it! I gotta work on that house rule.

[SittingDuck]

The reason I posted the poll on waivers is that I've pretty much given up on them. I don't like having the freedom to send guys up and down - I like the waiver challenge. But I couldn't stomach the idiocy of the AI with its waiver usage. Or should I say self abuse?

The AI teams will attempt to cripple themselves several times a year via the waiver wire, I think.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Mntwins

I did a bad thing...I shopped my aging high priced catcher so I could dump his contract.
I couldn't help it! I gotta work on that house rule.

Well, I asked once earlier in this thread, so I'll try again.

I'm not understanding how the "Shop Player" way of doing trades is too easy. It's been my experience that the computer will accept the exact same trade whether it's a result of "Shop Player" or whether you simply click on "Initiate Trade."

Plus, when you "Initiate Trade", this was when I was able to come up with some pretty incredible trades the computer was willing to accept. Usually because it seems to be easily confused when multiple players are involved.

Therefore, I thought by "limiting" my trades to only those under "Shop Player" that I was actually making it more difficult.

But reading this thread, several have said they recommend a house rule be to NOT use "Shop Player." So, can anyone help clarify for me where I've gone wrong in the assumptions I listed above?

[SittingDuck]

I cannot, but basically I've hardly ever gotten a good deal by shopping a player. I think especially if the AI is set to favor prospects, does this happen. I remember seeing ONCE that the AI offer Tommy John for a certain decent caliber player. I thought, "Wow!". So I went and checked TJ out a bit more, looked at my rotation and minors pitching and thought things over. Went back and shopped him the next day and *never* found that offer again, or anything remotely like it.

I also don't understand how shopping a player is jobbing the AI.

[Bobble]

Possibly the ease of seeing all your choices of what you could trade that guy for, so you can easily pick the best trade?

[Nukester]

As I said before, I use shop player almost exclusively. I find that the offers I get when I shop a player are almost always really bad deals, like for pitchers with 3 or 4 (on a 1-10 scale) control or something like that. There was a thread around not to long ago where they were talking about shop player vs make this work option, and I think it was determined (or at least the mindset of shop player) that when shopping a player, you are basically asking the CPU "I want to get rid of this guy. What would you give me for him". The CPU could usually lowball you, because it sees you as wanting to dump a player. With make this work, your really not telling the CPU that you want to get rid of a player. I hope that makes sense.

Also with shop a player, you will almost never ever see a really good player be offered up. With make this work now, the CPU is more willing to give up a star or good player (not always, because sometimes you get "there are no players that will make this work", but more often than not, you can trade for big names)

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

I cannot, but basically I've hardly ever gotten a good deal by shopping a player. I think especially if the AI is set to favor prospects, does this happen. I remember seeing ONCE that the AI offer Tommy John for a certain decent caliber player. I thought, "Wow!". So I went and checked TJ out a bit more, looked at my rotation and minors pitching and thought things over. Went back and shopped him the next day and *never* found that offer again, or anything remotely like it.

I also don't understand how shopping a player is jobbing the AI.

Originally Posted by Bobble

Possibly the ease of seeing all your choices of what you could trade that guy for, so you can easily pick the best trade?

Originally Posted by Nukester

As I said before, I use shop player almost exclusively. I find that the offers I get when I shop a player are almost always really bad deals, like for pitchers with 3 or 4 (on a 1-10 scale) control or something like that. There was a thread around not to long ago where they were talking about shop player vs make this work option, and I think it was determined (or at least the mindset of shop player) that when shopping a player, you are basically asking the CPU "I want to get rid of this guy. What would you give me for him". The CPU could usually lowball you, because it sees you as wanting to dump a player. With make this work, your really not telling the CPU that you want to get rid of a player. I hope that makes sense.

Also with shop a player, you will almost never ever see a really good player be offered up. With make this work now, the CPU is more willing to give up a star or good player (not always, because sometimes you get "there are no players that will make this work", but more often than not, you can trade for big names)

Thanks for the responses guys, and while I see the point about a possible advantage by seeing ALL the possibilities, I just find that having difficulty set at Very Hard the responses aren't at all bad for the AI. In fact, usually the offers are jobbing me, even the best of the bunch.

So, I'm in my third season of my very first experience with OOTP (never played before OOTP2007/8), and at startup took the lowest budgeted team in the majors (LOL, happened to be Yankees), and with only three or four trades (all one for one unchanged from "Shop Player" offers and with trading set at Very Hard/Neutral), I've taken the lowest budgeted team to two straight respectable 81-81 records and am currently 10 games up in my division at the All-Star Break.

As usual, the AI is just no match.

*sigh*

I swear I'd pay over $100 for a baseball game with good AI.

If anyone more experienced with the OOTP series than I can suggest ways to help, please PM me. But please NOT with the standard "join an online league" response. I may at some point try that, but I'm more interested in solo play.

[oldtime]

In addition to the many other suggestions, I always set my leagues up with the "old" major league trading deadline ( June 15th ). Makes you live with the team you put together, AI opponents are not in "dump" mode as often.

I only initiate trades through "shop a player", so it has to be 1-1, during the season.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

If anyone more experienced with the OOTP series than I can suggest ways to help, please PM me. But please NOT with the standard "join an online league" response. I may at some point try that, but I'm more interested in solo play.

I don't like online play myself, simply bacause I am too damn busy, and get too tired of constantly d/l, unpacking, repacking, u/l leagues. It gets kind of tiresome. Also, if I happen to miss a sim session, which happens to be in a failry important time period of the game, it almost alwys sets me back.

Anyway, the best suggestions I could give you, is to first of all, create a commish, as well as a regular profile for yourself. The commish would be used but about once a year, during the first year player draft in June.

When that comes around, I always use the commish to edit my team to pick last in the draft. Then switch back to my regular profile and do the draft. I almost always try to resign ALL of my FA players, regardless of age. So I set the Favor Prospect/Vets in the middle for this reason.

I will only initiate trades during the winter meetings. Once in a while, I will initiate a trade throughout the regular season, only if need be in order to fill a hole, in which there is a major injury to one of my starters, and I simply do not have a sufficient major leaguer ready to be called up from the minors. Happens at least once a year....sometimes twice a year.

Those parameters alone make it a bit of a challenge (especially if your the type of player that plays out every game, like I do.) I STILL end up making it to the playoffs though, since sometimes the AI makes some strange decisions during game play. (like IBB a .280 BA guy, with a runner on second, and my biggest hitter is the third guy at the plate....ended up winning the wild card off a HR with two outs in the 9th, down by two...VERY VERY strange indeed!)

Unless it was Dusty Baker who made that call, then I suppose it makes sence....kind of.... But then again, he's usually never in hunt for the WC anyway....