Small OOTP 9 Update

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by andymac

I don't think labeling OOTP as having far fewer features than Worldwide Soccer Manager is accurate. Can you play historically back to 1901 in WWS? The two games are very different with different sets of features but both have things that the other doesn't.

More importantly, there is a different market for each of the games. More important than anything when pricing something is determining what people would be willing to pay. In the US there are more baseball fans than soccer fans, so even a game with fewer features could be sold for more.

[MidnightPyro]

$24.90 for a preorder isn't bad at all. Considering how many people cough up $60 for games like Madden each year without any major overhaul, I think OOTP at $25 is a pretty major steal

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

*Awaits all the impatient / ungrateful fools saying "What about ... from the suggestion list"*...

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And - somebody has to ask it - what about all those great ideas on the suggestion list?

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Here are [a] few of the things that will be new in the game:
- Some nifty stuff for online leagues
- Tons of tweaks & AI improvements

It's early, and I have bolded some general statements he made that could include quite a few suggestions fulfilled. Still, did we really expect most, let alone all of them (the good ones), to be implemented in the very next version?

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This year we will not add hundreds of bells & whistles, but rather improve what we already have. Feature-wise the game is already lightyears ahead of the competition, so we're focusing on making the game more enjoyable.

Regardless, this sounds like a business decision made by the guy who runs the business. Apparently he thinks he can sell these improvements at the price indicated. I am betting that he will, based on his track record.

[Riverdome]

MH - Thank you for the update.

[ctorg]

The redone scouting system is something I'm looking forward to seeing. I've been critical of the current system for a while, and I'm anxious to see what changes have taken place.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by ctorg

The redone scouting system is something I'm looking forward to seeing. I've been critical of the current system for a while, and I'm anxious to see what changes have taken place.

Heh.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

$40 with almost no new features? $40 and there are still issues with v2007/8 that need fixing? Oh well, I guess the need for yearly revenue outweighs the need for a fully functional version.

He said those were a few of the new features. Saying there won't be hundreds of new ones doesn't mean "almost no new features". That's a little presumptuous of you.

Be patient and wait for further updates before assuming you'll be unhappy with what comes out.

As far as a fully functional version, version 8 is definitely fully functional. It has plenty of bugs, but nothing keeping it from being functional. Plus, by focusing on improvement in version 9 as well as a few nice features, I'm guessing it will get your "fully functional" endorsement.

[Another Mike D]

Originally Posted by Neags23

He said those were a few of the new features. Saying there won't be hundreds of new ones doesn't mean "almost no new features". That's a little presumptuous of you.

Be patient and wait for further updates before assuming you'll be unhappy with what comes out.

As far as a fully functional version, version 8 is definitely fully functional. It has plenty of bugs, but nothing keeping it from being functional. Plus, by focusing on improvement in version 9 as well as a few nice features, I'm guessing it will get your "fully functional" endorsement.

Well, you are in essence correct. But the thing is he wants people to pre-order, and that means actually getting some good vibe going about what he wants us to purchase.

I don't believe the latest version is fully functional. I can't even spend my money in free agency with owner budgets turned off. For my online league, I have to add the cash reserves to everyone's budget so the game will actually let them spend it. The game's financial system is all out of whack for free agency and extensions (lots of posts in the support subforum), the waivers are whacked. I just found out that my GMs have been trying to withdraw their offers during FA with no luck, even though the export takes because there are new offers. The comp system doesn't work. I can cut people for free in the offseason.

So obviously, you and I define fully functional different. I assume that if somebody wants me to spend $40 on something new, he should at least make more of an effort to fix the thing I just spent $40 on last year. Like I said in the FOF forums, Jim does it right. He doesn't release something new every year, and puts out several patches and updates over the course of months to years. I hope Markus proves me wrong, but the strategy of a release a new game every year at the expense of fixing the current version has just completely turned me off.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by bababui

How to justify a 40 dollar price tag with no animation??

how to justify spending $40+ pn games with plenty of animation, but way less replay value than OOTP?

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by silvam14

how to justify spending $40+ pn games with plenty of animation, but way less replay value than OOTP?

It costs me about $30 to go to the movies with my wife on one occasion (counting concessions). For another $10, I could get a game that I will play countless times over the course of a full year, accumulating many movies' worth of hours playing it, and in many cases, having more fun. In fact, it's a few dollars less than that $30 if I pre-order.

That's not too bad as far as value goes.

I've said before that I think of OOTP as a subscription service. Every year I pay a given fee and get the most updated version.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

Me too... it's a proper noun

Originally Posted by redsoxford

That's good - bells and whistles would really start to grate after a while

You're on form today

[Vida Blue]

For the amount of time that I put in playing OOTP, $30 is a steal. Thanks for the update Markus.

[Base Stealer]

Thanks for the info. I'm very excited for the historical league support. And for the tons of fixes. And for the game itself to be released soon......I can't wait to preorder and then to play the new version.

[Neags23]

Yeah, honestly, $40 for a product like this is nothing.

People will complain and say they're on a limited income/budget/whatever. But if your income is so limited that $40 needs to go to groceries or rent instead of a game... you've got bigger problems than the cost of a computer game. If you've gotta have it (I understand the addiction), set aside fifty cents a day until release. Pretty sure even starving college students can afford that (I know, I was one just a couple of years ago).

The fiance and I spent $50 the other night for dinner at Uno's for crying out loud. Don't get me wrong... we got us a good meal. But not much to show for it now (unless you include the ever-increasing mass of my body).

I work for a software company that charges hundreds of thousands of dollars for our product. Granted, we only have about 50 customers, but I can tell you OOTP is a far superior product than what we offer (don't tell software engineering I said that... or the FDA for that matter).

[ootp3to6]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to version 9.

[Cooleyvol]

Looks like the pre-order crowd will be increased due to the 40 dollar price tag. I hope there's a demo before the pre-order is over.

[f.montoya]

There are obviously going to be differing opinions on the value of the new version as well as some dissatisfied with the shortcomings of the current version that make them feel "why bother?"

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and entitled to express those opinions as well. It just makes good business sense to hear all sides and I think Markus and company would agree that negative opinions are a necessary part of a successful business.

That said, I too feel that the current version could use another patch just to shore up the game as a whole. While it may not happen, it wouldn't be beyond reason for it to happen. At the moment, a lot has transpired with regard to OOTPD and the split with Sports Interactive, forcing a reorganization of the operations as a whole. If the split hadn't occurred, we most likely would have seen another patch or two as well as an earlier scheduled release of the next version. But the separation made it necessary for OOTPD to convert OOTP 2007 into OOTP 8, in order to preserve the rights to future sales. While some fixes were implemented, the priority at the time was to get SI out of the picture as soon as possible. As you probably know by now, this ate up a lot of valuable time.

While some may skip the next version out of spite from a current version lacking or for reasons connected to price or even thoughts that the new version will not have enough upgrades or new features, or for any other reason, OOTPD will have to deal with it. But all-in-all, I don't think we're going to find another programmer who is as good as Markus is or who is as dedicated to OOTP as he is...not to mention a programmer who listens to the community like he most certainly does.

Bottom line?

The year is currently 2008 so $25 for ANY game is cheap. No one will be twisting your arm to buy it. You also have the right, and I encourage you, to continue to post bugs/complaints about the current version in hopes that a nice "clean-up" patch might be considered. If that ever happens will be Markus' decision.

[Neags23]

I can only imagine the problems a patch to version 8 would cause.

I'm sure there's a slew of people who bought 2007 but not 8. Since 2007 can't be patched (due to the SI split), the patch would only be for version 8. Owners of 2007 would feel slighted that they have to buy version 8 to get the patch for a game they already bought. No one wants to pay for a patch. OTOH, if there is no patch, version 8 owners feel slighted. It's really a no-win situation for OOTPD.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I've said before that I think of OOTP as a subscription service. Every year I pay a given fee and get the most updated version.

Me too. Gotta keep Markus making great baseball games.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by bababui

OOTP does have far fewer features than WWSM. I love both games but WWSM is the gold standard in sport sims. Given that WWSM actually has to pay for its licenses and has a graphic engine and deeper game play yet sells for less that $40 tells me that a retooled OOTP2009 might be a bit overpriced.

First, WWSM does not have to pay for licenses at all, and second you cannot compare the feature sets. OOTP is highly custimozeable, WWSM not at all.

That being said, if the the feature set would dictate the price, then OOTP would have to cost $200 and games like DMB or Strat $10. But, unlike OOTP, these companies put all their resources into the historical season disk, thus justifying the price.

The reason for the higher price compared to OOTP 8/2007 is simply the weak Dollar compared to the Euro. In 2001 we earned 40 Euros for a copy priced at $35, now it is just 27 Euros for a copy priced at $40! And since three out of four paid team members live in Europe and we do not sell 100,000 copies we have to raise the price a bit.

Still, I think for $40 you get a game that has a) more and better features than the competition and b) a replay value that is far higher than your 8-hour console games.

Just my .02