New York Mets 2007-2008 offseason thread

[Melo]

Originally Posted by ctorg

It seems to me that modern managers all struggle with bullpen management. It must be one of the most difficult areas of the game to deal with. You've got to weigh strategy, fatigue, and a variety of other factors. Personally, I think the way starting pitchers are treated like fragile glass figurines is a bit much. A hundred pitches isn't that much, really. Thirty years ago guys pitched complete games regularly and many still did it every four days. I think some guys can do that, even today, but these days it's assumed that no one can. If you can have a starter get through 7 innings regularly, bullpen management becomes much easier.

yep. When I started following baseball everyone used 4 man rotations. They were discussing it on SNY during a game in September and Ron Darling said that although they tracked picth counts, he doesn't ever remember them being a factor in when a pitcher should be pulled. There is speculation that one reason (in addition to drugs) Doc Gooden tailed off so drastically was over use. Johnson used to routinely leave him in for 150 pitches and he had highs of ~175 pitches.

I don't know what the answer is.

For as long as I've followed baseball, THE most questioned decisions usually center on when to take a pitcher out and leave him in. As you pointed out as bullpen use becomes more and more prominent, the stakes are raised for those decisions. In the case of the New York Mets, the stakes were collapse and a berth in the playoffs.

[Slackker]

I've been thinking a lot about how the Mets will look next year, as opposed to how I want them to look. I can't expect that they'll ditch all the aging vets that I'd like them to, or start a few guys that I think are deserving. Either way, here's what I think the Mets SHOULD look like next year.

The Outfield - Beltran is here. That's a sure thing. Centerfield is taken care of. Lastings Milledge gets a bad rap for his personality, which really isn't any worse than others on the team. For this reason I'd be surprised to see him in a Mets uniform - but the pending retirement of Shawn Green and age of Moises Alou certainly makes his return possible. He's in a corner outfield spot on my team, no doubt. Moises Alou's option would be declined, and Green would retire. That leaves one corner OF spot for the Mets to worry about. Use your free agent money here. I haven't been keeping up on who clubs have already extended this season - so I'll simply say I'd be okay with Brad Wilkerson or Geoff Jenkins. Really, the outfield pool looks pretty thin unless you're okay with signing another 35+ player.

The Infield - This one is easy. Wright, Reyes, and Delgado will all be on the team next year. That only leaves a hole at second base. Castillo isn't a bad option, but I STILL want to see Gotay start. I'd be happy with either one, but for this example I choose Gotay.

Catcher - LoDuca did break down this year. His many years behind the plate are starting to catch up to him. Still, he was one of the only Mets who shined in September. I'd bring him back for a year, with an option for a second. Lets face it, there's not much choice here unless you want to start Castro. The Mets have nothing in the minors, and there's not much in FA.

The Rotation - First, the guys who are locks. Pedro, El Duque, Maine, Oliver Perez. I do NOT want to see Jorge Sosa back in the rotation, and I hope Glavine retires or plays one final year with the Braves. This leaves one open slot. Pelfrey, Humber.. take your pick. This is the spot they can actually try to fill with a player from the system. Next year I don't expect contention, so it's a good time to see what you've got. Again, I'm not sure what potential FA's resigned during the year.. but there ARE a few I'd be okay with. A chance on Pineiro may be worth it. Joe Kennedy, Josh Fogg, Carlos Silva. Those four, depending on contract demands.. would be alright with me.

The Bullpen (6) - Billy Wagner and Heilman are here. I'd throw Joe Smith in the bullpen again. Feliciano and Schoeneweis are really the only other two that are okay with me. As for the other spot.. is Luis Viczaino out there still? I'd be a little worried about his arm, but at least you know he can pitch in New York.

The Bench (6)- Castro, as a backup catcher, is a fine option. Endy Chavez and Gomez should be alright to cover the outfield when someone needs a break. Leave Anderson Hernandez around to be a backup up the middle. If Castillo is resigned Gotay can share that role. If not, sign someone. Perhaps take a chance on a guy who had a terrible year, such as Mike Lamb.

And that makes 25. A recap!

Rotation: Pedro Martinez, Oliver Perez, John Maine, Orlando Hernandez, Mike Pelfrey

Relievers: Aaron Heilman, Pedro Feliciano, Joe Smith, Scott Schoeneweis, Luis Viczaino (or other FA), Billy Wagner (Closer)

Catcher: Paul Loduca
Infield: Carlos Delgado, Ruben Gotay/Luis Castillo, Jose Reyes, David Wright
Outfield: Lastings Milledge, Carlos Beltran, Brad Wilkerson

Bench: Ramon Castro (or other), Mike Lamb, Anderson Hernandez, Endy Chavez, Carlos Gomez, Ruben Gotay (if not starting).

Players not returning: Aaron Sele, Guillermo Mota, Moises Alou, Tom Glavine, Shawn Green, Jeff Conine, possibly Luis Castillo

Obviously I'm on the side that wants to clean house a little. Fill the gaps with risky players like Lamb, and see what falls your way around the trade deadline or next offseason to look for long-term replacements at C, 1B, RF, SP.

[ctorg]

Nice writeup, Slackker. I'm very much in the "do not re-sign Glavine" camp. I'd also like to see Mota long gone. I'm iffy on Castillo and Alou. I expect Green to retire, and I don't think Conine or Sele ever planned to hang around for more than a year anyway.

The reaon I'm iffy on Castillo is that while he does seem like an extended DL stint waiting to happen, he's a fairly solid player and I think he's got another good year or two in him. The reason I'm iffy on Alou is that when that man is healthy, he is a hall-of-fame caliber player, even now. I wouldn't mind having his bat for half a season again, as long as we only count on having it for half a season.

I'm not so sure about LoDuca, although I am not sure there is much else to choose from. There were whispers of I-Rod, but I don't think that would be a wise move either. I kind of wish the Mets had a good young catcher waiting around for a shot, but they don't as far as I know.

I somewhat expect the Mets to get an itchy trigger finger and trade Milledge for someone disappointing. I hope not at this point, and Minaya has shown good restraint before, but I don't know.

[Slackker]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I somewhat expect the Mets to get an itchy trigger finger and trade Milledge for someone disappointing. I hope not at this point, and Minaya has shown good restraint before, but I don't know.

Hopefully they give Lastings another year to gain favor in New York. It just seems like the fans, as an entity, overreact to every slightly negative story regarding him - whether it be showboating or arguing calls, etc.

If he's traded it'll surely be for someone disappointing - I agree with you there. Of course, maybe as Mets fans we're just used to trades going terribly wrong.

As far as Ivan goes.. do we, as fans, really want another aging player at the tail end of his career? I know I sure don't. That's why I'd like to see Alou gone (because there are other options) and why I'm iffy on Castillo (I'm a Gotay fanboy). The one exception is LoDuca, simply because.. as you stated.. there's really not much else out there - and he's said publicly he WANTS to be here, which still means something to me for some reason.

[Mike]

There is talk of Johan Santana going on the market and trade demands will be high. Talk of Milledge, Humber or Pelfrey and more to get him from the Mets. My guess is they will ask for Gomez not Milledge who is a better prospect and has a good attitude. I think Humber and Pelfrey being close friends on the same team is a plus. Getting one player even a good one like Santana will not put this team on the top, they have way too many holes/question marks for next season.

Randolph liked vets and this team was loaded with vets, aging injury prone vets that is. His influence over player moves I think showed this year and to his own demise.

This team should develop those young players as good core and build around them. Maybe taking a step back, develop talent and not go all out to win for the start of next season. Mid-season look at where you are and maybe trade the rest of the aging vets. Then once you put that core together, take them to the next level in 2009 when the new stadium will be in place.

[ctorg]

Seems like Jose Reyes has taken a pretty big rep hit among Mets fans. The ridiculous rumor mill has been swirling about a Reyes-for-Santana deal and the Mets signing A-Rod. I think it's safe to say that won't happen. The Mets aren't really in the market for A-Rod, and I don't think they plan to be.

[Big Hugg]

Yorvit Torrealbla looks to be heading to the Mets: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/sp...ll&oref=slogin


Looks like they're going to outbid the Marlins, thankfully.

[ctorg]

Well, I suppose it's better than LoDuca was able to produce this season, but Torrealba is a big step down from what LoDuca produced the season before, when the team was good.

[Big Hugg]

My main issue with him is he hit .212/.292/.326 outside of Coors.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Big Hugg

My main issue with him is he hit .212/.292/.326 outside of Coors.

Yeah, he's not really a hitter. LoDuca was very hot and cold this year and got injured and is showing a lot of wear and tear. I don't see him holding down a starting job very well for much longer, so the Mets are probably right not to bring him back. But Torrealba isn't a great replacement. Word is they'd platoon him with Castro, which is a decent idea. I guess there aren't too many options, so we'll see.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by ctorg

Yeah, he's not really a hitter. LoDuca was very hot and cold this year and got injured and is showing a lot of wear and tear. I don't see him holding down a starting job very well for much longer, so the Mets are probably right not to bring him back. But Torrealba isn't a great replacement. Word is they'd platoon him with Castro, which is a decent idea. I guess there aren't too many options, so we'll see.

Torrealba is being brought in not for his stats but the behind the scenes aspect of the game. His game calling, working with pitchers and his positive attitude he brings to the game are the pluses which will be the opposite of what LaDuca did.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Mike

Torrealba is being brought in not for his stats but the behind the scenes aspect of the game. His game calling, working with pitchers and his positive attitude he brings to the game are the pluses which will be the opposite of what LaDuca did.

I'm not really convinced that those qualities impact the win-loss column as much as they are sometimes made out to.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I'm not really convinced that those qualities impact the win-loss column as much as they are sometimes made out to.

By the articles I have seen not from the Mets end but the Rockies end, they are going to miss him for those very reasons. Although the amount of money he is getting is huge but there are 2 important reasons for this (not that I agree with them).

Minaya wants to settle C and 2B then see what chips he has for pitching. He has no patience anyway, but wants it done before the winter GM meetings to nail down trades. So he was willing to give the man what he wanted plus some just to get him now.
There is talk that Castillo is holding out too, trying to squeeze NYM for every dollar he can. Eckstein is being looked at as a possible 2B for the Mets, I like him better then Castillo and cheaper. The reason I like him is those very qualities you don't like so much. The Mets need those "gamer" types or types that bring talent and the drive to win. Valentin for everything else he was, he was a "gamer" and keep others such as Reyes in the game. His loss was also Reyes loss and in the end the Mets downfall in the second half. Not all of it mind you, but an impact nonetheless.

[Eumel]

They want to sign Castillo for four years, with only the physical pending. Four years?!?

That's what I call a high risk move. I hope he manages to stay somewhat healthy.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Eumel

They want to sign Castillo for four years, with only the physical pending. Four years?!?

That's what I call a high risk move. I hope he manages to stay somewhat healthy.

I'll take Castillo. He's a good enough player if he stays healthy. I do wish the team had more faith in Gotay, though.

Anyway, they need to nail down something, so this will do.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Mike

The reason I like him is those very qualities you don't like so much. The Mets need those "gamer" types or types that bring talent and the drive to win. Valentin for everything else he was, he was a "gamer" and keep others such as Reyes in the game. His loss was also Reyes loss and in the end the Mets downfall in the second half. Not all of it mind you, but an impact nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't like those qualities or think they have any value at all. I just don't think that having them has nearly the impact people think. I generally think "intangibles" are overvalued. Not valueless, just overvalued. I'm quite sure the effect of some players on their team or other players can be positive or negative. I seriously doubt whatever personal qualities Torrealba has would actually make up for his inability to hit the baseball well or throw runners out.

[Eumel]

Estrada for Mota -- good move!
Now I wonder if Castro or Estrada will be the starting catcher next year.


See here.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Eumel

Estrada for Mota -- good move!
Now I wonder if Castro or Estrada will be the starting catcher next year.


See here.

Minaya restored some of my faith in him. He managed to ditch Mota, which is a positive, and get a decent catcher in return, which is another positive. Simply unloading Mota is an accomplishment in itself. Filling a hole at the same time is a very nice move.

[Mike]

From what I have read, Estrada may not be with the team very long. He is due arbitration and may not be extended. I guess they are still talking trade for another catcher with many possible trades, but none will include a top prospect. Minaya may be using Estrada as a hedge against teams trying to get the Mets to overpay for a catcher. That is one good part of the deal, he can work this many ways.
Losing Mota is a plus even if Estrada never plays a game in a Met uniform and never gets resigned. Addition by subtraction as Mota wore out his welcome. Maybe the Brewers can get something out of him.

I have been hearing a buzz about 2 young prospects the Mets have. I saw both play last year and liked both players. Nick Evans 1B and Kevin Mulvey SP seem to be getting lofty ratings among the Mets prospects. Mulvey is rated above Pefrey and Humber now. In trades for a starting pitcher, his name always comes up over the other 2 guys. I liked the way he pitched too, throws hard and likes to bust them inside. Evans showed a good bat with power and I heard he did very well in winter ball. The one game I saw him he crushed a long homer to left and then ripped a double to the opposite field in his next at bat.

[marioh]

At this point in time, I would've been glad to get a bag of dirt for Mota.