Our forefathers wouldn't have called these guys Patriots - Page 2

zekester91 · 09-12-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

So if I was going to cheat, I would definitely use it to my advantage, and even though the Patriots have been a great franchise the last 10 years, this really stupid mistake will cast a tarnished image on the history of success.

How much tarnished do you want thier image, they had to have at least 3 rules changed so they could win thier superbowls. The tuck rule was invented to explain how they won the AFC Champoinship against the Raiders. Pass interferance was re-writtnen so that it conformed to how they where playing defence, instead of calling penites on them. It's good that we finaly have a commisior that will stop the Pats from cheeting.

Vezna31 · 09-12-2007, 03:18 PM

My opinion is that they got busted and should be punished. If the camera was turned off in the 1st qtr, I'm sure it didn't help them much in winning the game, unless the Jets were too stupid to change signals. Punishing the Patriots based on this game would seem excessive. What would not be excessive is punishing them for how many times they may have done it in the past when it did benefit them. For that, I say make them forfeit this win against the Jets and take away draft picks.

Maybe my Eagles wouldn't have lost by a field goal in the Superbowl a few years ago!!

Jason Moyer · 09-12-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Maybe my Eagles wouldn't have lost by a field goal in the Superbowl a few years ago!!

Did Belichick stick a video camera down McNabb's throat or something?

PerfectMisnomer · 09-12-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Did Belichick stick a video camera down McNabb's throat or something?

roffle

Patriots got caught doing something illegal, so they should be punished. However, NFL teams shouldn't be using the same signals, especially if Mangini already suspected Belichick did this sort of thing. Don't think the Patriots are the only team who try and steal signals.

dkmsoxfan88 · 09-12-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

How much tarnished do you want thier image, they had to have at least 3 rules changed so they could win thier superbowls. The tuck rule was invented to explain how they won the AFC Champoinship against the Raiders. Pass interferance was re-writtnen so that it conformed to how they where playing defence, instead of calling penites on them. It's good that we finaly have a commisior that will stop the Pats from cheeting.

Except the tuck rule was a rule before the play happened... hence the reason it was called...

jaxmagicman · 09-12-2007, 08:26 PM

Offical word from the NFL front office is that the punish will be severe. I am hearing that they are going to make Bill Belichic not wear that sweater every week.

Prodigal Son · 09-12-2007, 09:09 PM

The obvious thing to do is make NE forfeit that game, then fine them.

Lastplaneout · 09-12-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The obvious thing to do is make NE forfeit that game, then fine them.

I'm a Patriots fan and I would support this decision. I would rather have the punishment be strict and swift than have any talk of the NFL going easy on them.

Jason Moyer · 09-12-2007, 10:22 PM

I don't understand the uproar over this really. People are acting like Belichick committed a terrorist act by throwing crates of tea into Boston Harbor or something.

Vezna31 · 09-12-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I don't understand the uproar over this really. People are acting like Belichick committed a terrorist act by throwing crates of tea into Boston Harbor or something.

Hey...it could be worse. The govt could get involved and use our taxpayer dollars by having a full congressional hearing on cheating in football.

MorseMoose · 09-12-2007, 11:04 PM

I'm in the boat of "WHO THE **** CARES?!"

Arlie Rahn · 09-13-2007, 03:17 AM

Here's an interesting story on this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/f...icleid=1030707

Quote:

For a window into the Patriots’ tactics, multiple Packers sources provided a fascinating account of what happened in the 35-0 victory last Nov. 19.

A man identifying himself as a Patriots employee asked a security guard if he could shoot footage of Lambeau Field before the game, and permission was granted.

Just before the game, he requested to stay on the sidelines to record quarterback Tom Brady [stats] for the coaching staff. However, he was soon spotted filming the Packers defense and signaling Patriots coaches.

A member of the Packers security staff witnessed the exchange and asked him to leave. He retreated to the tunnel, continued filming, and appeared to be communicating with the coaches via hand signals before being escorted off the field.

...

It’s interesting to note a pair of comments after that game. The first came from Packers corner Al Harris, who praised the Patriots coaching staff.

“It’s almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?” he said. “You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don’t know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he’s pretty good.”

I remember watching that GB game in awe of New England. There would be times where GB would run a delayed blitz to the right and NE would "happen" to move the TE and FB over to that side right before the snap. Now, maybe Belichick is that good, but this certainly has to make people pause when you read comments like these. If NE had found a way to record signs early on and use them, that's a HUGE advantage. If I can tell my QB which side a blitz is coming or if the coverage is rolled to one side, most NFL QBs should be able to have success (well, outside of Grossman

).

Splitter24 · 09-13-2007, 07:01 AM

Again, you don't need to have a video camera to figure out a team's defensive signals. The fact that the Patriots used a video camera is against the rules and deserves punishment.

But people are making an indefensible connection between a video camera and breaking the code of a coaches signals. The uproar over this is comically absurd.

andjbock · 09-13-2007, 11:46 AM

I'm guessing they lose a second round draft pick.

Arlie Rahn · 09-13-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitter24

Again, you don't need to have a video camera to figure out a team's defensive signals.

Then the Patriots have to be the biggest group of mouth-breathers in the history of sport. According to this line of thinking they:

1. Knew it was against the rules and knew they would be openly defying a directive sent from Goodell in a memo.
2. From prior actions, they knew the commish was a hardliner on rule violations (esp ones he highlighted).
3. They went ahead and broke the rule anyway to video signals that gave them no competitive advantage.

Of course, they could have gained a competitive advantage by doing this (at which point maybe the risks make sense). So, I guess it comes down to whether you think Belichick is an idiot or not.

eriqjaffe · 09-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Our forefathers used guerilla tactics in the Revolutionary War, which was considered to be contrary to the period's established rules of armed conflict.

Erik W. · 09-13-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Our forefathers used guerilla tactics in the Revolutionary War, which was considered to be contrary to the period's established rules of armed conflict.

I already alluded to that, n00bcake.

eriqjaffe · 09-13-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I already alluded to that, n00bcake.

Yeah, well, this thread has too many word for me to read them all.

Ragnar · 09-13-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The obvious thing to do is make NE forfeit that game, then fine them.

This would turn the NFL into a comedy act. They do that in little league baseball, not the NFL. You do something like make them forfeit their picks from rounds 1-3 for the next 3 years. Also not allow them to trade for any picks from rounds 1-3. That would be more than enough. All games count in the NFL.

Now had the Jets won by that score, you know their was cheating. Just the score alone is proof enough.

1998 Yankees · 09-13-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I already alluded to that, n00bcake.

LOL (sorry, ej). Now, now, Mr. Moderator!

09-12-2007, 03:18 PM	#22
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,986	My opinion is that they got busted and should be punished. If the camera was turned off in the 1st qtr, I'm sure it didn't help them much in winning the game, unless the Jets were too stupid to change signals. Punishing the Patriots based on this game would seem excessive. What would not be excessive is punishing them for how many times they may have done it in the past when it did benefit them. For that, I say make them forfeit this win against the Jets and take away draft picks. Maybe my Eagles wouldn't have lost by a field goal in the Superbowl a few years ago!! __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes. Last edited by Vezna31; 09-12-2007 at 03:19 PM.

09-12-2007, 08:26 PM	#26
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Offical word from the NFL front office is that the punish will be severe. I am hearing that they are going to make Bill Belichic not wear that sweater every week. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

09-12-2007, 10:22 PM	#29
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,088	I don't understand the uproar over this really. People are acting like Belichick committed a terrorist act by throwing crates of tea into Boston Harbor or something. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

09-13-2007, 07:01 AM	#33
Splitter24 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Willsboro, NY Posts: 2,895	Again, you don't need to have a video camera to figure out a team's defensive signals. The fact that the Patriots used a video camera is against the rules and deserves punishment. But people are making an indefensible connection between a video camera and breaking the code of a coaches signals. The uproar over this is comically absurd. __________________ Currently Reading: The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen "Well, the game is afoot. I’ll take anal bum cover for 7,000." - "Sean Connery" SNL Celebrity Jeopardy R.I.P. Tommy Holmes 1917-2008

09-13-2007, 01:13 PM	#36
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,691	Our forefathers used guerilla tactics in the Revolutionary War, which was considered to be contrary to the period's established rules of armed conflict. __________________

09-12-2007, 09:09 PM	#27
Prodigal Son All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Iahiodo a.k.a. the flyover Posts: 1,635	The obvious thing to do is make NE forfeit that game, then fine them.

09-12-2007, 11:04 PM	#31
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	I'm in the boat of "WHO THE **** CARES?!"

09-13-2007, 11:46 AM	#34
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	I'm guessing they lose a second round draft pick.