I'm Finally Starting To Like This Man

[Luis_Rivera]

New formula for any Bonds related discussion:

1. [relevant statement about Barry Bonds]

2. [unoriginal steroids joke - possibly about the size of his head]

3. [statement of desire for injury/retirement/something to prevent him from breaking Aaron's record]

4. [mention of how great he is on the field]

5. [passive-aggresive statement about how his greatness since '01 has been steroid-fueled (rolleyes optional)]

6. [statment about how he has never been proven to have taken said substance]

7. [statement about failed amphetamines test/grand jury testimony]

8. Pissing match ensues

FIN

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

8. Pissing match ensues

FIN

Shut up!

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

New formula for any Bonds related discussion:

1. [relevant statement about Barry Bonds]

2. [unoriginal steroids joke - possibly about the size of his head]

I am very happy to have personally provided the first two requirements, and I am now enjoying the p.m. that has ensued.

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

8. Pissing match ensues

FIN

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Shut up!

LOL!

[Tribe Fan 24]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

1. Nothing at all fraudulent about his unsurpassed baseball skills.

2. Yes, he is the greatest baseball player ever.

3. His career accomplishments would place him in the HOF twice over.

4. Never met the fella.

5. Hasn't failed a test. He can deal with the consequences if that occurs.

6. Bonds is "hanging on" to nada. He's one of the elite hitters this season.

7. Asterisk my patootie. Start with that foolishness and you'll never see the end of the asterisks.

8. Confident, arrogant minority athletes have always incurred outrage far exceeding merit.

Hey Darkhorse....I hear what you are saying.

We have a few points that we agree on, I think we have some that we may agree to disagree on as well!

1. I will admit that he is a HOFer. I also agree with you that he is and has been immensely talented. I could never take anything away from his skills. I just happen to think that his HR records are tainted in my eyes. I know that steroids/enhancers can't make you hit/make better contact with a baseball. I also think that in his early years when he was a threat on the basepaths, he was a dominating player....no question. I didn't choose my words well by representing that he has been a fraud in all aspects of his game.

2. I think that he is definately one of the best to play. I wouldn't place him at the top, but I would have him in the mix, no question!

3. Agreed from the beginning.

4. (I haven't met him either) However, I would think that you would have to say that at best his treatment of/disdain for teammates, media, fans, really just about everyone he comes into contact with is not just a coincidence. He has given most people who would be on the fence plenty of cause to dislike him.

5. I may be mistaken, but he did admit to using the cream and the clear which I thought were proven to be questionable. I also thought that some of the others players that were linked to Balco had admitted to steroid use, which calls into question his integrity imo. Also, I thought that many of the leading players in the Balco case have gone to jail for various charges. At the least I would say that he has put himself in a bad situation by the crowd that he associated with.
(I know he never failed a test, but were players being tested before steroids were deemed illegal in baseball?)

6. You may be right here, but I still wonder if he only had 400 homers, would he still be playing? I personally do not think so, but that is just my opinion.

7. I still feel that there should be some mention of his possible steroid use. I do not think that it was a level playing field with players from the past (i.e. Aaron.) Perhaps there should have been an asterisk on the McGwire's record also, but that is another thread....and I actually liked McGwire.

8. Here is where I really do not understand where you are coming from. I never mentioned anything about race here. I would never mention that in this discussion. I could care less if he is green or blue, it does not enter in my evaluation of him/his career. I don't know what I said that prompted this response from you. I would love to hear your rationale.


I guess that I went a bit overboard in my disdain for Bonds. While my feelings have not changed, I think that we actually agree on some of the points. That is what makes talk forums so great, differences of opinion discussed openly and respectfully. Thanks for your response and I hope you will make time to respond again.

Kevin

[magnet]

I don't think it's right to change anything about the records of the game. They are what they are. Who SHOULD be (and WON'T be) punished is MLB itself for essentially approving steroid use for 30+ years.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by mikev

I totally believe him. World Class athletes just randomly take whatever they're given *all the time*

I wonder how the ratio of athletes who question what their trainers are giving them compares to the ratio of normal people who question the drugs their doctors prescribe to them. I'm sure it's higher, since that latter ratio is about as close to 0:infinity as you can get, but I wonder if it's really significantly higher.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by magnet

I don't think it's right to change anything about the records of the game. They are what they are. Who SHOULD be (and WON'T be) punished is MLB itself for essentially approving steroid use for 30+ years.

That's kind of how I feel about the whole issue. All this attention is being heaped on Barry Bonds, but it was a systemic problem that allowed Barry Bonds to use steroids, and there have been plenty of others to do it. The newer steroids rules are kind of too little too late.

[Comedian2004]

Bonds:

2004-04-30 2004-05-09 0-15 with 13 walks
1999-07-04 1999-07-16 0-16 with 4 walks
1991-04-10 1991-04-20 0-21 with 1 walk

1996-05-12 1996-06-11 - 27 games (92 at bats) without a HOME RUN
1989-08-27 1989-09-24 - 27 games (89 at bats) without a HOME RUN

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Tribe Fan 24

1. (I haven't met him either) However, I would think that you would have to say that at best his treatment of/disdain for teammates, media, fans, really just about everyone he comes into contact with is not just a coincidence. He has given most people who would be on the fence plenty of cause to dislike him.

2. I may be mistaken, but he did admit to using the cream and the clear which I thought were proven to be questionable. I also thought that some of the others players that were linked to Balco had admitted to steroid use, which calls into question his integrity imo. Also, I thought that many of the leading players in the Balco case have gone to jail for various charges. At the least I would say that he has put himself in a bad situation by the crowd that he associated with.
(I know he never failed a test, but were players being tested before steroids were deemed illegal in baseball?)

3. You may be right here, but I still wonder if he only had 400 homers, would he still be playing? I personally do not think so, but that is just my opinion.

4. Here is where I really do not understand where you are coming from. I never mentioned anything about race here. I would never mention that in this discussion. I could care less if he is green or blue, it does not enter in my evaluation of him/his career. I don't know what I said that prompted this response from you. I would love to hear your rationale.

1. Barry Bonds has plenty of fans among the folk that see him play everday, Giants supporters. I've read tons of positive quotes from teammates and foes regarding Barry. They don't get the same play in the media as the negative stuff.

2. edrooney covered this in an earlier post.

3. Why would he retire from a game he enjoys playing and at which he is still among the elite?

4. It's not a rationale to point out that minority athletes receive more than their fair share of outrage from fans and media. I'm not gonna point out specific instances in this forum because I don't wanna make anyone feel defensive, but there are plenty of examples here.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I'm thinking that this is his last year if this keeps up, as long as he gets the record. For that reason alone, I hope he does. It would be better if he does not come back for next season.

Two more yesterday. Come on Barry, let's get this over with.

[treedom]

He's my favourite player, after George Bell and Kelly Gruber of course.

You can do it, Barry!

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

New formula for any Bonds related discussion:

1. [relevant statement about Barry Bonds]

2. [unoriginal steroids joke - possibly about the size of his head]

3. [statement of desire for injury/retirement/something to prevent him from breaking Aaron's record]

4. [mention of how great he is on the field]

5. [passive-aggresive statement about how his greatness since '01 has been steroid-fueled (rolleyes optional)]

6. [statment about how he has never been proven to have taken said substance]

7. [statement about failed amphetamines test/grand jury testimony]

8. Pissing match ensues

9. Smugly satirical thread formula

FIN

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