Wow,Troy Smith,selection #174

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by marc

This blows my mind as well.

Other players are moving up and down. So if you're a safety projected to go in the mid-2nd, and the safety behind you passes you up, then you might drop a full round, depending on team needs and whatnot.

Kind of like wondering how high Quinn would have gone if it wasn't for Russell being in the draft and having his stock go up and up over the past few months.

[marc]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Other players are moving up and down. So if you're a safety projected to go in the mid-2nd, and the safety behind you passes you up, then you might drop a full round, depending on team needs and whatnot.

Kind of like wondering how high Quinn would have gone if it wasn't for Russell being in the draft and having his stock go up and up over the past few months.

I think that's how it works with NFL GM's. I don't think that's how it works with people like Kiper, Babyface McShay, etc. who need to sell magazines and get subscribers to ESPN Insider.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Bench pressing more pounds or running 6 hundreds of a second faster on your 40 means the difference between round 1 and round 2

How do you know that's the case? There were cases where people with good workouts that didn't move up, and people with bad workouts that didn't move down. Workout numbers got hyped simply because that's the only thing reporters got to talk about.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

since Brees was drafted 32rd.

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

running 6 hundreds

[yankeesrule]

Marc(or anyone else that saw a lot of OSU), do you see Smith eventually maybe switching to WR like some other smaller quicker QB's have done to stay in the league or do you think he will be able to cut it as a QB?

[mh2365]

Smith was an absolute steal in the 5th round. I think he can become a starter with work on his accuracy, Marc was 100% correct about Brees he is extremely accurate.

[CMH]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

The NFL seems to be a place where all logic goes out the window

Players can move up and down on the draft board during weeks that they do nothing at all.
Bench pressing 15 more pounds or running 6 hundreds of a second faster on your 40 means the difference between round 1 and round 2

I am glad baseball is slowly moving out of the dark ages and starting to find meaningful ways to evaluate players other than a bunch of bull**** that gets air time on ESPN but in reality means jack ****

The popularity of the NFL draft also boggles my mind but that is a different subject for a different day

I think the difference is that the NFL Draft, unlike baseball, hockey, and the NBA, is the only draft of the major pro sports that relies on need over talent.

You can make arguments that the NBA is slowly moving toward the need over talent area, but it's still mostly talent over need especially after the first couple of picks.

In the NFL, with need dominating talent, a guy like Quinn can drop a great number of picks because teams don't need him at QB. Same thing happened with Smith. If teams passed on Quinn then why would they take Smith? I think that's more logical than just taking the guy because everyone says he'll be a good quarterback.

By the way, the 49ers have definitely done a great job in the draft the past two seasons. They are drafting need with talent (not that hard when they need everything) and should be much improved next season.

[PerfectMisnomer]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Marc(or anyone else that saw a lot of OSU), do you see Smith eventually maybe switching to WR like some other smaller quicker QB's have done to stay in the league or do you think he will be able to cut it as a QB?

Let it be known, Smith is a quarterback. Other guys who converted to WR didn't have powerful arms, and had more juking ability then QB ability. Smith has a cannon of an arm, and with some practice could eventually be the starter in Baltimore.

Guys like Randle El were better suited for WR, because they did not have an NFL arm.

[dudeosu]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Marc(or anyone else that saw a lot of OSU), do you see Smith eventually maybe switching to WR like some other smaller quicker QB's have done to stay in the league or do you think he will be able to cut it as a QB?

Troy's a good athlete but he's never going to be WR material. Although fast for QB, he'd have huge problems trying to separate from NFL defensive backs. With the howitzer he has for an arm, teams are going to keep him as a QB since, at the very least, he can spread the field.

On top of all that I don't think he's ever worked as a receiver. He was QB in high school and, aside from some random punt return appearances, also in college.

[jeheinz72]

I wish the Fins took Smith in the 4th rather than Beck in the 2nd.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by YankeePride

I think the difference is that the NFL Draft, unlike baseball, hockey, and the NBA, is the only draft of the major pro sports that relies on need over talent.

You can make arguments that the NBA is slowly moving toward the need over talent area, but it's still mostly talent over need especially after the first couple of picks.

In the NFL, with need dominating talent, a guy like Quinn can drop a great number of picks because teams don't need him at QB. Same thing happened with Smith. If teams passed on Quinn then why would they take Smith? I think that's more logical than just taking the guy because everyone says he'll be a good quarterback.

By the way, the 49ers have definitely done a great job in the draft the past two seasons. They are drafting need with talent (not that hard when they need everything) and should be much improved next season.

Quinn was taken 23rd wasnt he?
Are you telling me that the 22 ahead of him didnt need a QB?
I know the Raiders took one. But did any of the others?

And look at how many teams have ****ty QBs from year to year
About half of them it seems.
Is there anything wrong with a QB who has a really good QB, taking Quinn, letting him develop a little and then flipping him mid season for alot of draft picks or established talent?
There would be lots of boos on draft day and alot of talking heads on TV talking about what a bad pick it was
But who really cares?
You can easily find what you need during FA to fill most of your holes and probably fill them better than kids just out of college.

If I was a GM I would always take the best player avaliable reguardless of need and then see what I could do about trading them down the line.
And the NFL is set up where you dont even really have to pay your players that much, you can back load their contracts and then cut them almost at wiil.

I would also see what could be done about better indentifying talent other than a meaningless combine or trying to read chicken bones or relying on such proven bull**** as pocket presence or knowing how to win.

[jeheinz72]

NFL draft is all about risk-management. Coaches and GMs are playing to avoid taking huge risks since a failure loses their job. Hence why no one does that strategy Falls.

If they take that surplus QB, therein ignoring a need position, they'll get roasted (See Lions & WR - though I think Calvin was a good pick for them since he is elite, Quinn isn't elite). If they then can't flip the QB for picks, they're really screwed. Even Matt Schaub, a guy many considered the best backup QB didn't even get the amount of value of a top-15 pick, and I think the Falcs royally screwed the Texans in that deal.

Take Aaron Rodgers on GB, do you think any team would pay a top-25 pick for him? Probably not. He'd fetch a 3rd at best probably, and that'd be the same scenario you outline.

[marc]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Marc(or anyone else that saw a lot of OSU), do you see Smith eventually maybe switching to WR like some other smaller quicker QB's have done to stay in the league or do you think he will be able to cut it as a QB?

He's definitely going to have to play QB. He's really not that fast, he was just "elusive". If he can't make it at QB, he's gonna have to kiss his NFL career good bye.

My guess is that at worst he sticks around the league for a while as a backup but I could see him in the right system turning into a pretty decent starting QB. He has some obstacles to overcome but he also has a lot of things going for him.

[marc]

Originally Posted by dudeosu

On top of all that I don't think he's ever worked as a receiver. He was QB in high school and, aside from some random punt return appearances, also in college.

He got some work in at WR early in his OSU career but he's definitely a QB all the way. Hopefully that big time arm will make up for his other shortcomings.

[dudeosu]

Originally Posted by marc

He got some work in at WR early in his OSU career but he's definitely a QB all the way. Hopefully that big time arm will make up for his other shortcomings.

I can't find it now but there was a quote on ESPN.com from someone who said Smith's velocity was as good as anyone else in the draft. Those are big words considering what Russell can do.

[marc]

Originally Posted by dudeosu

I can't find it now but there was a quote on ESPN.com from someone who said Smith's velocity was as good as anyone else in the draft. Those are big words considering what Russell can do.

Yeah, there's no question he's got the 2nd best arm in the draft. Arm strength is the least of his worries.