Jackie Robinson Day (or the why Torii Hunter pisses me off)

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by jf7623

When is Ross Gload day?

He is praised every day!

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Baseball is not attractive to black kids and it is not 'flashy' for them because their communities and culture have for whatever reasons shunned it to a large degree.

Lack of baseball fields in the inner cities is the problem as I understand it.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Lack of baseball fields in the inner cities is the problem as I understand it.

I dont see too many football fields in inner DC either but that does not stop the NFL from being 75-80% black
I dont think that is the problem

I think the problem is that young black kids are drowned in images of Kevin Durant being 18 and about to become a multi millionaire, or Kobe Byrant putting up 50 a night or MTV cribs visiting Lebron James and Micheal Vick.
In the baseball world they dont see that. They see a few black players who dont stand out and arn't really celebrities.
They see black players and white players and hispanic players who all act pretty much the same.
Whether its true or not, they dont see anyone like them rising up out of their situation and then cashing in on the fame and fortune of the NFL.
So I guess the black players in MLB are just too boring.
And if you think about it, there arnt really any stand out media celebrities in MLB.
If you look at the stories it is usualy always stories slamming Bonds or talking about what a failure Arod is.
Watch a week of sportcenter and you will see what im talking about.

So I think the no fields idea is utterly false.
If a young kid shows enough talent he will be noticed and get a chance to play.
The private schools here in DC are filled with inner city kids from DC who had shown promise in football and basketball.
The kids can't receive outright scholarships but many parents and alumni flip the bill for these kids so they can play for the schools their sons and daughters attend.
I work with someone who has a young man living with him and his wife for the sole purpose that he can play WR for the school his two boys go to.

I suspect the same thing happens everywhere.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Screw every other year

We all tend to forget

The AL and NL were two totaly completly different worlds.
They were different companies with different front offices and different commishes.

Their was no interleague play so all the AL teams played agasint one black face that seasons.
And it wasnt Jackie Robinsons
AL crowds saw one black face on the diamond
And again it wasnt Robinsons

Its a goddamn shame that Doby is not better known than he is.
July 5th should be just as important and April 15th

At the VERY least the Indians should wear Doby's # on July 5th
That is the bare minumum that baseball owes Doby

I agree with you. Doby being second was worse on him. Also he was younger by 5 years and a less forceful personality. I don't even know what number he wore.

Edit; found it, number 14.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I dont see too many football fields in inner DC either but that does not stop the NFL from being 75-80% black
I dont think that is the problem

So I think the no fields idea is utterly false.
If a young kid shows enough talent he will be noticed and get a chance to play.
The private schools here in DC are filled with inner city kids from DC who had shown promise in football and basketball.
The kids can't receive outright scholarships but many parents and alumni flip the bill for these kids so they can play for the schools their sons and daughters attend.
I work with someone who has a young man living with him and his wife for the sole purpose that he can play WR for the school his two boys go to.

I suspect the same thing happens everywhere.

I think you are "utterly" wrong to dismiss this so readily.

A fundamental problem when it comes to attracting black kids to baseball is 1) the lack of inner city space for baseball fields, 2) the expense of those fields (more expensive than most other sports fields) and 3) the expense of the equipment. What is more, a kid might be a standout baseball player, but there is a growing sense that many scouts tend to overlook or avoid inner city schools in favor of suburban locales. So, unless the kid is just a freak talent, he isn't likely to get a chance in baseball.

Basketball courts, even shoddy ones, are not hard to find in an urban setting. You don't really need a field to play football. But the days of inner-city stickball are all but dead and baseball diamonds aren't popping up in the city. Two kids can toss the pigskin (or a baseball), two kids can play a one-on-one game of hoops. Finding enough people for a game of baseball isn't as easy, and even if you could get that many together, where - again - are you going to play?

I think the problem is that young black kids are drowned in images of Kevin Durant being 18 and about to become a multi millionaire, or Kobe Byrant putting up 50 a night or MTV cribs visiting Lebron James and Micheal Vick.
In the baseball world they dont see that. They see a few black players who dont stand out and arn't really celebrities.
They see black players and white players and hispanic players who all act pretty much the same.
Whether its true or not, they dont see anyone like them rising up out of their situation and then cashing in on the fame and fortune of the NFL.
So I guess the black players in MLB are just too boring.
And if you think about it, there arnt really any stand out media celebrities in MLB.
If you look at the stories it is usualy always stories slamming Bonds or talking about what a failure Arod is.
Watch a week of sportcenter and you will see what im talking about.

While I think you're waaaaaaaay off base with regard to the space and expense issue, I do agree that the other major hurdle when it comes to attracting blacks to baseball is a combination of image and financial reward. The Michael Jordan Effect certainly didn't help baseball, a sport always hampered by an inability to market itself or its star players, and one widely regarded as dull and stodgy. More importantly, both the NFL and NBA offer instant financial rewards whereas MLB usually requires a committment to the Minor Leagues.

I think both factors are important, but it doesn't matter how appealing the MLB makes itself to these kids, if they don't have a place to play, cannot afford the necessary equipment, or are routinely overlooked by the scouting mill, they aren't going to get into baseball no matter how many times a black player appears on MTV or signs a guaranteed multi-million dollar contract out of H.S.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by The Professor

I think you are "utterly" wrong to dismiss this so readily.

A fundamental problem when it comes to attracting black kids to baseball is 1) the lack of inner city space for baseball fields, 2) the expense of those fields (more expensive than most other sports fields) and 3) the expense of the equipment.

As a soccer/football fan, fallschirmjager should be well aware that one of the big attractions of the beautiful game among the poor is the need for only a rag or ball to play. That's one of the big reasons American football will never spread far beyond these shores: equipment costs.

[Prodigal Son]

All you need to play American football is a football and some bodies. Preferably a back yard or park too, but the street will do.

Can't do that with baseball. You'll break a window. And you need a ton of people. And a couple of them have to be able to pitch or the game will be really boring (and painful!).

Nobody played baseball where I grew up. I mean, the HS had a team, and I guess there were like 15 kids on it, but really...they were football and/or basketball players who just wanted something to do in the summer to get teh chixxors.

[rudel.dietrich]

You can play baseball with a broom handle and a tennis ball can you?

I did not grow up in America so maybe im completly wrong, but I would think you could play any sport anywhere.
Well except ice hockey...but not exactly alot of black talent in that sport either.

[Jonzard]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I would think you could play any sport anywhere.
Well except ice hockey...

The place I could most consistently play hockey was in California on the street. Not ICE Hockey, but damn near the same game.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

You can play baseball with a broom handle and a tennis ball can you?

Not really. I mean, you can take a broom handle and hit a tennis ball around, but that's not really baseball. And you still need to find at least a dozen people to even have a semblance of teams to make it anything really like baseball.

You can grab a basketball, go to the park (or the school gym) with just a handful other people and have pretty much the same game as they play in the NBA. Same regulations, same rules, etc.

A broomstick and a tennis ball with a handful of friends in a grass field with makeshift bases, no fence and a pitcher, catcher and one fielder per team, obviously no stealing allowed, no real home runs, etc.? Nah thanks, I'd rather play 3-on-3.

That and people play hoops indoors in the winter. When you're talking about inner-city areas, it's a lot easier (more affordable) to build a gym indoors than to try to build any sorts of baseball facilities indoors. A permanent gym plus a ten dollar basketball is all you need. Not so much with baseball. Pitching machines, batting cages, gloves, bats, dozens of baseballs that don't seem to last very long, etc.

[CMH]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

You can play baseball with a broom handle and a tennis ball can you?

I did not grow up in America so maybe im completly wrong, but I would think you could play any sport anywhere.
Well except ice hockey...but not exactly alot of black talent in that sport either.

You can find kids playing stickball in the street, but as mentioned above, that's not baseball.

Kids don't get the chance to field, throw, or even learn the strategy of the game that way. They don't get the chance to face 80+ fastballs, breaking balls, or worry about patience at the plate.

I'm not saying you can learn everything about basketball in a one-on-one game, but the game of basketball allows an individual to grasp the fundamentals through one-on-one. Same goes for football with a couple of friends throwing down the block.

Hey, not to get too into the race issue, but perhaps it shouldn't be a wonder why so many blacks are running backs or wide receivers instead of linemen or quarterbacks or even kickers. The running/catching part of the game is probably what they are learning most when they play with friends. No one plays with linemen on the street.

[sfgiants91090]

As a person who just recently graduated high school, I can give an accurate rundown on the amount of African-Americans on my high school teams.

Our baseball team (I played on for my freshman and sophomore year) only had 1 African-American while our football team was made up of about 70% African-American. Our basketball team (Basketball was by far the most popular sport) was comprised of 100% black players 3 out of my 4 years. There were more African-Americans on the lacrosse team than on the baseball team. I don't think it was the same for every high school, but the trend suggests that the majority of African Americans will always go towards basketball and football.

[yankeesrule]

wow, espn commentators dont have a brain. they are making an argument about how its a disgrace that Dusty Baker hasn't been given another chance. Dude was just coaching last season. How many teams brought in a new coach since the end of last season? Not to many. Of those teams, how many would he have been at all interested in?

[Jonzard]

Oh, and Dusty Baker sucks as a manager.

[Jonzard]

Dola,

Giving it some more thought I can understand ESPN's point of view..... since they may have to work with Dusty Baker.

[Raderick]

It cost more to play baseball than to play, say, basketball, football, or even soccer. Players need a glove, baseball bat, a ball (I remember playing with a tennis ball or a super ball around areas where there were houses) and lots of room to pull off a game. With football, all you need is a small parking lot and you have a place to play touch or flag football, the same with soccer, and I've yet to see a public school without a basketball court.

[Jordan]

The cost of baseball is what is keeping young black kids from playing. I agree whole-heartedly with the professor.

Being that I'm only 18 myself, I have numerous memories of playing games with my neighborhood boys in the streets at night, mostly who were black. Only once do I remember playing baseball. It's sad and funny, because all of these guys were pretty good basketball players, and the one time we played baseball, they were nailing all these balls that would have been homers if we had a fence. It was also sad because I go beaned right on my ass.

Everybody played basketball because, on the relative cheap, you could buy a hoop and just stick it by your driveway. And a ball.

Football we played all the time under the street lights. You just needed a football for that.

Baseball. You need bats and baseball at the bare minimum. That's how we played that one time. When you're playing organized, you need bats, baseballs, gloves, uniforms, cleats, a cup, and probably are going to be playing on a diamond.

See the difference? And this is coming from a middle class kid

Edit-Raderick sorta beat me to it

[Raderick]

FWIW, I remember playing different sports in a friend's backyard including baseball, which was no larger than 150 feet by 30 feet with bushes and trees on the left and windows on the right, and we still managed to play ball several years without pissing anyone off. We had some house rules; basicially if you hit a home run over the fence, it was an out (mainly because it was next door to a school and it was too much of a hassle hopping over the fence and finding the ball, ground rule doubles if the ball was lost in a bush, etc. Good times. Good times.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by sfgiants91090

As a person who just recently graduated high school, I can give an accurate rundown on the amount of African-Americans on my high school teams.

Our baseball team (I played on for my freshman and sophomore year) only had 1 African-American while our football team was made up of about 70% African-American. Our basketball team (Basketball was by far the most popular sport) was comprised of 100% black players 3 out of my 4 years. There were more African-Americans on the lacrosse team than on the baseball team. I don't think it was the same for every high school, but the trend suggests that the majority of African Americans will always go towards basketball and football.

Lacrosse is booming in the inner cities

[Astros33Resurrected]

I saw a reporter today say that teams don't want black players because they cost more to develop. I see how they could cost more than latin players but how would they cost more than white players?