OOTP 2007 3 steps forward, 2 steps back...

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by onnel

I hope you'll look in to mouse overs for just such problems...for next year, of course!

Onnel

Count me as one who is not interested in mouse overs. They always sound so good, but then they lack something in practice.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

My biggest gripe is the Roster screen. Why does it have to be an uninformative HTML? I miss the 6.5 "home" roster screen, where when I click on a team I have stats on the left, I have my columns I can sort and categories to change. Switch between all my levels on it and be able to sort those.

Now I can't see my team leaders, upcoming schedule and sort out tired players, ratings and stats all on one screen.

At the very least I wish we could have the sortable roster screen as the default instead of the HTML one. The extra click to get there is just a waste of time, since the HTML displays almost nothing of value.

This is possible in 2007 too... open the roster tab of your team, and on the upper right, there is a menu where you can select the list to display all players of your organization. From there you can even right-click on players and do transactions, something that you could not do in 6.5

[Deft]

My big gripe with the UI difficulty in tracking down the league schedule screen. For the baseball pulldown that pulls up auto-play it would be nice to have the schedule be the top choice in the pull down list.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yeah, but there is no space left for stats... so it is either stats or depth

I, for one, definitely would vote for stats if it had to come down to either one, but that's because I don't even use the depth chart. Isn't there some way that we could have both? I mentioned in another thread the possibility of making one of the filters at the top of the lineup page be "Current Lineup vs. RHP", "Current Lineup vs. LHP", etc.

Every baseball game I've ever played since RBI Baseball on NES allowed you to view your lineup with Avg., HR, & RBI right next to each player. It makes such a world of difference when trying to adjust lineups. And imagine the possibilities with all of the stats available in this game! It seems a waste that if I wanted to see my lineup with their corresponding VORP, OBP, and... I don't know, CS, that I can't do that (though I'd be immensley satisfied with just avg., hr, rbi's. Or, at this point, even avg.).

[phenom]

Which lineup screen are you talking about? I ask because I thought there was a lot of options of items to view on the lineup screen, such as batting ratings, stats 1, stats2, things like that.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by phenom

Which lineup screen are you talking about? I ask because I thought there was a lot of options of items to view on the lineup screen, such as batting ratings, stats 1, stats2, things like that.

"

Having stats at the line-up screen seems redundant, since you'd then have them in two spots on the same screen.

[phenom]

This is the screen I'm talking about: http://www.ootpbaseball.net/graphics//images/1567.jpg

Under the View dropdown at the upper left there are numerous options.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

1.) Substitutions are NOT different to 6.5, I just tried it.
2.) I changed the lineup page because 95% of the beta team was in favor of the change and wanted the depth charts & lineups on a single screen.
3.) I don't know what you mean with "simple menu/leader board", can you explain?
4.) The manager/owner model is in there, but just different.

What he said.

I am a harsh critic when harsh criticism is called for. This time it is not.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by phenom

Which lineup screen are you talking about? I ask because I thought there was a lot of options of items to view on the lineup screen, such as batting ratings, stats 1, stats2, things like that.

I'm not sure if this is a response to my comment, but that is the very screen I'm talking about. Those options are fantastic, but they only allow you to see them for your whole roster, or just by position, or all batters, or all pitchers. I'd like to be able to only see stats for my lineup.

For instance, where (in that screen shot) it says "Position: All Batters" I'd like an option that says "Lineup vs. RHP", etc. That makes it much easier to sort your lineup, glance at how your lineup has been doing the last few weeks, whatever, rather than looking at your entire roster, or only 2nd basemen, etc. Make sense?

[phenom]

Originally Posted by Neags23

I'm not sure if this is a response to my comment, but that is the very screen I'm talking about. Those options are fantastic, but they only allow you to see them for your whole roster, or just by position, or all batters, or all pitchers. I'd like to be able to only see stats for my lineup.

For instance, where (in that screen shot) it says "Position: All Batters" I'd like an option that says "Lineup vs. RHP", etc. That makes it much easier to sort your lineup, glance at how your lineup has been doing the last few weeks, whatever, rather than looking at your entire roster, or only 2nd basemen, etc. Make sense?

Okay, I get what you're saying, but those columns are also sortable, and the guys in your lineup are highlighted in a different color than your bench jockeys.

I get what you want, I really do. However, to compare this to 6.5, there's only one page for lineups and depth charts when there used to be two. Obviously it's more important for you to have separate pages, but to be perfectly honest and blunt, much of the game was probably designed democratically, and we can't all get what we want that way. :shrug:

[phenom]

For that matter, in 6.5 you had to click on every single position to adjust depth charts. Personally, I don't mind trading off a little bit of searching within the same page to have all of it on a single page.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by phenom

Okay, I get what you're saying, but those columns are also sortable, and the guys in your lineup are highlighted in a different color than your bench jockeys.

I get what you want, I really do. However, to compare this to 6.5, there's only one page for lineups and depth charts when there used to be two. Obviously it's more important for you to have separate pages, but to be perfectly honest and blunt, much of the game was probably designed democratically, and we can't all get what we want that way. :shrug:

It's difficult for me to compare it to 6.5, because I only played it for a very short time (I'm a BM convert... I know, I know, but at least I'm here now!).

I agree that it helps that the columns are sortable, and the lineups are highlighted in a different color, but if you're looking at the Overview lineups page, and have 4 different lineups, your entire roster of batters could potentially be highlighted (a little extreme, I know, but possible). So the highlighting only helps minimally.

As far as the game being designed democratically, I absolutely agree that we can't all get what we want. If I was the only one mentioning this, I'd quickly shut up. I'd never ask for a game to change simply because I wanted something different. However, I think this is a pretty standard feature to have, isn't it? I'm not going out on a limb and asking for league full of Hobbits and Unicorns . Just the option to have stats adjacent to a lineup. If it's a big issue, I'm not going to complain. Simply something I think could help the usability for those of us that have put in less than a few hundred hours on OOTP.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yeah, but there is no space left for stats... so it is either stats or depth

Originally Posted by Neags23

I mentioned in another thread the possibility of making one of the filters at the top of the lineup page be "Current Lineup vs. RHP", "Current Lineup vs. LHP", etc.

Originally Posted by Neags23

For instance, where (in that screen shot) it says "Position: All Batters" I'd like an option that says "Lineup vs. RHP", etc. That makes it much easier to sort your lineup, glance at how your lineup has been doing the last few weeks, whatever, rather than looking at your entire roster, or only 2nd basemen, etc. Make sense?

It sure does to me. I'm one of those who wanted lineups and depth charts on the same page, but this seems like a great idea.

Another thought is to have the lineups/depth chart page default to 'batters only' and the pitching page default to 'pitchers only'. You could still bring up everyone if you were interested, but it would save a click for most gamers.

[battists]

Unfortunately, what happens with a lot of these screens comes down to preference.

Some things are a no-brainer. But with a lot of this comes down to preference. Personally, I like having lineups and depth charts combined, because I do a combination of simming and playing out games. But for someone who plays out all of their games, depth charts might not be so important.

"No problem," you say, "just make it an option!" That's well and good, but it adds to the complexity of the game. I mean, just LOOK at the number of options in this game. It took me 500+ pages to describe them all!!

And for each option you add, testing becomes more difficult, which ultimately usually translates to more bugs in the product.

Some of the things Markus removed, he did so because of his personal vision for the game. For example, he removed things like Promotional Days from 6.5, because he didn't want the focus to be on things that a manager/general manager would never have to deal with.

And other things change because of other user feedback, Markus's preferences, or because the new design of the game made a certain presentation simpler or more graceful, even if it's not identical to 6.5.

Of course, if some users like Sirhawk just can't get comfortable with the interface, well, that's the way it goes. We'll do what we can to help Sirhawk feel more comfortable, but if he ultimately can't get there, we may just have to chalk it up to a difference of opinion.

There are plenty of hit games (like Civ IV) that have unhappy customers, too.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

[phenom]

Originally Posted by Neags23

It's difficult for me to compare it to 6.5, because I only played it for a very short time (I'm a BM convert... I know, I know, but at least I'm here now!).

I agree that it helps that the columns are sortable, and the lineups are highlighted in a different color, but if you're looking at the Overview lineups page, and have 4 different lineups, your entire roster of batters could potentially be highlighted (a little extreme, I know, but possible). So the highlighting only helps minimally.

As far as the game being designed democratically, I absolutely agree that we can't all get what we want. If I was the only one mentioning this, I'd quickly shut up. I'd never ask for a game to change simply because I wanted something different. However, I think this is a pretty standard feature to have, isn't it? I'm not going out on a limb and asking for league full of Hobbits and Unicorns . Just the option to have stats adjacent to a lineup. If it's a big issue, I'm not going to complain. Simply something I think could help the usability for those of us that have put in less than a few hundred hours on OOTP.

Okay, I'm not particularly familiar with the lineup overview page, but is there even room for that information if all four lineups are shown on one page?

[Cowboys3356]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

One of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

Yes he can, it is called the 1st base and 3rd base coach who are directly controlled by the manager. They frequently will tell the baserunner whether to take the extra base or not.

Nice try but you need to come up with a better excuse for not adding this feature. Or you could just tell the truth and say that you forgot it.

No shame in admitting when a person is wrong!

[phenom]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Yes he can, it is called the 1st base and 3rd base coach who are directly controlled by the manager. They frequently will tell the baserunner whether to take the extra base or not.

Nice try but you need to come up with a better excuse for not adding this feature. Or you could just tell the truth and say that you forgot it.

No shame in admitting when a person is wrong!

Then do so yourself.

When a baserunner is trying to score from second on a base hit, whose call is it to send him home? The manager or the third base coach?

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Yes he can, it is called the 1st base and 3rd base coach who are directly controlled by the manager. They frequently will tell the baserunner whether to take the extra base or not.

Nice try but you need to come up with a better excuse for not adding this feature. Or you could just tell the truth and say that you forgot it.

No shame in admitting when a person is wrong!

The truth is that is was purposefully removed. Personally, I support and like that decision. If it's added back, I would hope it was done so with the option to turn it off.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by phenom

Okay, I'm not particularly familiar with the lineup overview page, but is there even room for that information if all four lineups are shown on one page?

For stats next to the lineups on the bottom of the page, no, certainly not. But you could have 23 lineups on the bottom of the page, and it wouldn't matter if you had your lineups as one of the filters.

Originally Posted by battists

And for each option you add, testing becomes more difficult, which ultimately usually translates to more bugs in the product.

Just curious, because I have no idea, but is there a lot involved like that with adding filters like the one I've described? I'm not sure adding a filter could be considered an option; I would think it'd be a straightfoward database query... but again, I really have no idea. Any insight offered would be invaluable.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Yes he can, it is called the 1st base and 3rd base coach who are directly controlled by the manager. They frequently will tell the baserunner whether to take the extra base or not.

Nice try but you need to come up with a better excuse for not adding this feature. Or you could just tell the truth and say that you forgot it.

No shame in admitting when a person is wrong!

Your unnecessarily combative accusations aside, the base coaches aren't "controlled" by the manager on the fly as the plays on the bases are happening. Whether a runner is held up or sent on is entirely at the base coach's discretion.