All-Time Roster Project - Page 2

GForce22 · 08-14-2002, 12:53 PM

That's what I was thinking, and then let each of the bottom half franchises record wise have a 3-5 round draft of Negro League all-stars to kind of balance things out a bit.

GH

y2kornhusker · 08-14-2002, 03:33 PM

Hmm. Is it going to be a limit of 40? Some teams may have deserving players shut out in that regard.

GForce22 · 08-14-2002, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by y2kornhusker
Hmm. Is it going to be a limit of 40? Some teams may have deserving players shut out in that regard.

I'm wavering on that one. I'd really like to give each team the same # of guys to start out with if I could. But I also don't like shutting guys out of teams either (especially Twins/Senators fans who gave me 60+ choices).

I may need to reconsider this point. But putting anything beyond 40 into the free agent pool was a consideration also so they would still be in the league (in case people wanted to release everyone and do a draft)

GH

kevingrt · 08-14-2002, 03:48 PM

I see you only have 32 White Sox players, if your wanting to get more, just go to WhiteSoxInteractive.com, they have the bets message board!

JimServo · 08-14-2002, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
Jim,

Thank you VERY much for the offer. If you could do that it would be great. Please take your time...they would be the last team(s) I would be entering anyway and even that stage is a way off. But thank you for doing this.

GH

No problem, I got the catchers done. I will have the rest finished over the next few days.

GForce22 · 08-20-2002, 11:39 AM

hey guys,

ok, though it's a different thread, I figure for those who missed it in the me/rolen update thread that Pierre now has the initial spreadsheets (more than 2700 players) and is working on the roster import now. I will let you know as soon as I hear anything.

As for the all-time work, I have developed the spreadsheet to come up with ratings for the position players. I have entered hitters for the Angels and A's so far and like the results.

Splits are generic, since I don't have splits for older players. But the R vs R, L vs L, etc. will all be represented, just not ideally so.

Rating catcher arms at this point is a bit from memory, reading, etc.

Outfield arms are based on assist figures, range based on range factor, again just because info on these things is hard to come by. Whenever the set becomes released, I would want lots of feedback on those kind of ratings because, while a lot of them will be accurate, there will undoubtedly be some that are off.

Intangibles will be left alone, as will bunting for hits and such.

With the ratings for hitters established, doing the pitchers should be fairly easy as the basis is the same. Of course pitch types and such are luck of the draw in a lot of cases where I don't know what guys threw. Another area you guys will be able to help with down the line.

Again, this is just in its infancy and who knows when it will be done. But I'm doing piece by piece as I have the time. I will certainly keep people updated.

GH

y2kornhusker · 08-20-2002, 04:48 PM

Given the OBVIOUS difficulties in salary structure, I think it would be helpful to make VERY generous national/local TV deals.

GForce22 · 08-20-2002, 05:18 PM

haven't gotten REMOTELY that far Husker, but that's an excellent point. I can't imagine what the salaries are going to be, but just looking at the A's bats it's going to be high payrolls. That could be interesting too, with teams not having the same depth talent wise having more money to spend...how fast can a team like Houston, Montreal or Toronto compete with the better teams?

GH

Eugene Church · 08-20-2002, 05:30 PM

I recently ran an all-time all-star league, which was won by the Chicago White Sox. They beat the Cardinals in the World Series 4 games to 1. Unfortunately, I wiped out the league because of my ignorance. I'm new at OOTPB.

I had two leagues with 2 six teams divisions, a total of 24 teams. I has 3 Negro all-star teams, the Kansas City Monarchs, Pittsburgh Homestead Grays and Philadelphia Stars. None finished any higher than 3rd in their division. Lack of pitching was their biggest problem. I found about 100 Negro players by reading everything I could find in the public library. It was really surprising that I could get enough info to make pretty good player ratings...bats/throws...speed....range...contact or power hitter...throwing arm...pitcher control/velocity and batting skill, if they were good hitters.

I spent about 200 hours in the public library using The Baseball Encyclopedia and Total Baseball for the Major League stats and combing through books about the Negro Leagues for that info. I even ran across some Negro League stats which were very helpful. I did not know about the baseball stat sites on the Internet at that time. I have since made great use of the Baseball Reference and Lahman database sites to set up my current project. I'm going to begin with the 1921 season and play up to the present day. I'm retired and have the time to do it. I will play each game simming inning by inning...and using play-by-play only after a pitcher has given up 3 or more runs in an inning...I have found OOTPB's AI doesn't take pitchers out soon enough...allowing a pitcher to give up 4-8 runs in an inning...or 10-12 runs over 3-5 innings. I'll use the PBP mode to correct this situation. Also to play important games in their entirety.

If you decide to go with Negro League Players, I be happy to send you my information.

However, I intend to recreate my all- time all-star league and spread out the great black players on the teams that need help like the Houston Astros, Philadelphia Phillies, Baltimore Orioles, Milwaukee Braves, Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Royals, Seattle Mariners. California Angels, Arizona Diamondbacks, New York Mets...teams of recent vintage and teams that had bad teams during 1920 to 1940, like the St. Louis Browns, Brooklyn Dodgers and Philadelphia Phillies.

GForce22 · 08-20-2002, 05:33 PM

I will take whatever negro league player info I can get, because one way or another a portion will be involved in this league.

Thanks!

GH

rferry · 08-20-2002, 08:21 PM

i take it that you are only taking into account the years that they were on that team, right?
also, it probably wouldn't hurt to have Florida and Colorado (or FL/TB and CO/AZ) teams represented, if you can't find enough negro leaguers.
- a marlins fan.

CFrank · 08-20-2002, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
I will take whatever negro league player info I can get, because one way or another a portion will be involved in this league.

Thanks!

GH

-Here is a few urls for you-

These 2 url is for 2 All Star Team but only 9 players on each url:

http://www.all-timebaseball.com/inde...fo&team=NLBAS1

http://www.all-timebaseball.com/inde...fo&team=NLBAS2

This is a great site for info:

http://www.blackbaseball.com/

I hope this help..........Chuck

JimServo · 08-20-2002, 09:57 PM

I should have my list together my the weekend.

GForce22 · 08-20-2002, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rferry
i take it that you are only taking into account the years that they were on that team, right?
also, it probably wouldn't hurt to have Florida and Colorado (or FL/TB and CO/AZ) teams represented, if you can't find enough negro leaguers.
- a marlins fan.

Actually I'm using their whole career numbers, strictly for time reasons. For one player it wouldn't matter, but the time it saves by just being able to enter the already added figures into the spreadsheet over the course of 1000 to 1500 players is substantial. Ideally, I would do as you mentioned. Time is my only reason not to.

I believe what will happen is one team of the best of the 4 expansion teams who can't/weren't claimed by those teams, and another team of the best guys on no team, guys on teams that folded, maybe a few top Japanese players to boot. Then the negro league players will be drafted by the teams with the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 winning percentages to boost those rosters a bit.

GH

y2kornhusker · 08-20-2002, 11:17 PM

Definitely Oh.

GForce22 · 08-21-2002, 09:34 AM

yeah, Oh would be a part of that. It really depends how many guys fall into the other category. But I'll look into it. At this point, I've got three teams of hitters done (in spreadsheets, not in the game).

The biggest help I may ultimately need is data entry, though I don't know how easy it would be to have a bunch of people entering these rosters into the game and merging them later. That's for down the line though.

GH

kdawg · 08-21-2002, 01:08 PM

GH,

First, congratulations on the twins. I am recently married and looking to start a family next year. Secondly, this is an awesome idea. I was planning on starting a league filled with the greatest players of all-time. I play Classic Fantasy Baseball over on espn.com. If you need help entering data I would be willing to assist you.

GForce22 · 08-21-2002, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kdawg
GH,

First, congratulations on the twins. I am recently married and looking to start a family next year. Secondly, this is an awesome idea. I was planning on starting a league filled with the greatest players of all-time. I play Classic Fantasy Baseball over on espn.com. If you need help entering data I would be willing to assist you.

Thanks! Not sure about the twins yet. We went for the sonogram Saturday and it was too early to see anything, so we're doing another tomorrow afternoon. But her levels (stuff called HcG...when your wife is pregnant you'll learn about this stuff if you don't know already) that were high (and made her doctor think twins perhaps) have come a bit more in line with where they should be. So we'll know hopefully tomorrow. Twins would be fun, but one is fine for starters

As for the project, once it gets to the point of data entry I'll see about getting help and all that. Still a way to go before that point.

The cool thing about this is, if guys don't like the all-time team setup, they can just release everyone as free agents and do a free all-time draft. So it will really serve a multiple purpose.

GH

GForce22 · 08-26-2002, 12:38 PM

just an update on this.

I have completed batting/fielding sheets for 7 teams. Haven't done pitching sheets yet, but the formulas will essentially be the same. Just need to figure out how to rate endurance since pitchers used to throw so much more and I don't just want to give every pre-1980 pitcher A endurance. So far, I like the way the position ratings are going.

GH

JimServo · 08-26-2002, 01:31 PM

GH, my apologies for the delay on the negro league list. This have been kinda crazy over here. I'll have it over the next couple of days.

08-14-2002, 03:33 PM	#22
y2kornhusker Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 135	Hmm. Is it going to be a limit of 40? Some teams may have deserving players shut out in that regard. __________________ Omaha Commanders - BBSC Classic Draft League Seattle Mariners - BBSC Current Draft League Philadelphia A's - BBSC Historical Replay League

08-14-2002, 03:48 PM	#24
kevingrt Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 64	I see you only have 32 White Sox players, if your wanting to get more, just go to WhiteSoxInteractive.com, they have the bets message board! __________________ come Visit My Site <a href="http://kevingrt.tripod.com" target="_blank">http://kevingrt.tripod.com</a>

08-20-2002, 04:48 PM	#27
y2kornhusker Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 135	Given the OBVIOUS difficulties in salary structure, I think it would be helpful to make VERY generous national/local TV deals. __________________ Omaha Commanders - BBSC Classic Draft League Seattle Mariners - BBSC Current Draft League Philadelphia A's - BBSC Historical Replay League

08-20-2002, 05:30 PM	#29
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,246	all time all star league I recently ran an all-time all-star league, which was won by the Chicago White Sox. They beat the Cardinals in the World Series 4 games to 1. Unfortunately, I wiped out the league because of my ignorance. I'm new at OOTPB. I had two leagues with 2 six teams divisions, a total of 24 teams. I has 3 Negro all-star teams, the Kansas City Monarchs, Pittsburgh Homestead Grays and Philadelphia Stars. None finished any higher than 3rd in their division. Lack of pitching was their biggest problem. I found about 100 Negro players by reading everything I could find in the public library. It was really surprising that I could get enough info to make pretty good player ratings...bats/throws...speed....range...contact or power hitter...throwing arm...pitcher control/velocity and batting skill, if they were good hitters. I spent about 200 hours in the public library using The Baseball Encyclopedia and Total Baseball for the Major League stats and combing through books about the Negro Leagues for that info. I even ran across some Negro League stats which were very helpful. I did not know about the baseball stat sites on the Internet at that time. I have since made great use of the Baseball Reference and Lahman database sites to set up my current project. I'm going to begin with the 1921 season and play up to the present day. I'm retired and have the time to do it. I will play each game simming inning by inning...and using play-by-play only after a pitcher has given up 3 or more runs in an inning...I have found OOTPB's AI doesn't take pitchers out soon enough...allowing a pitcher to give up 4-8 runs in an inning...or 10-12 runs over 3-5 innings. I'll use the PBP mode to correct this situation. Also to play important games in their entirety. If you decide to go with Negro League Players, I be happy to send you my information. However, I intend to recreate my all- time all-star league and spread out the great black players on the teams that need help like the Houston Astros, Philadelphia Phillies, Baltimore Orioles, Milwaukee Braves, Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Royals, Seattle Mariners. California Angels, Arizona Diamondbacks, New York Mets...teams of recent vintage and teams that had bad teams during 1920 to 1940, like the St. Louis Browns, Brooklyn Dodgers and Philadelphia Phillies.

08-20-2002, 08:21 PM	#31
rferry All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: DC Posts: 549	i take it that you are only taking into account the years that they were on that team, right? also, it probably wouldn't hurt to have Florida and Colorado (or FL/TB and CO/AZ) teams represented, if you can't find enough negro leaguers. - a marlins fan. __________________ please excuse my grammar, i read baseball weekly in my high school english classes.

08-14-2002, 12:53 PM	#21
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	That's what I was thinking, and then let each of the bottom half franchises record wise have a 3-5 round draft of Negro League all-stars to kind of balance things out a bit. GH

08-20-2002, 11:39 AM	#26
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	hey guys, ok, though it's a different thread, I figure for those who missed it in the me/rolen update thread that Pierre now has the initial spreadsheets (more than 2700 players) and is working on the roster import now. I will let you know as soon as I hear anything. As for the all-time work, I have developed the spreadsheet to come up with ratings for the position players. I have entered hitters for the Angels and A's so far and like the results. Splits are generic, since I don't have splits for older players. But the R vs R, L vs L, etc. will all be represented, just not ideally so. Rating catcher arms at this point is a bit from memory, reading, etc. Outfield arms are based on assist figures, range based on range factor, again just because info on these things is hard to come by. Whenever the set becomes released, I would want lots of feedback on those kind of ratings because, while a lot of them will be accurate, there will undoubtedly be some that are off. Intangibles will be left alone, as will bunting for hits and such. With the ratings for hitters established, doing the pitchers should be fairly easy as the basis is the same. Of course pitch types and such are luck of the draw in a lot of cases where I don't know what guys threw. Another area you guys will be able to help with down the line. Again, this is just in its infancy and who knows when it will be done. But I'm doing piece by piece as I have the time. I will certainly keep people updated. GH

08-20-2002, 05:18 PM	#28
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	haven't gotten REMOTELY that far Husker, but that's an excellent point. I can't imagine what the salaries are going to be, but just looking at the A's bats it's going to be high payrolls. That could be interesting too, with teams not having the same depth talent wise having more money to spend...how fast can a team like Houston, Montreal or Toronto compete with the better teams? GH

08-20-2002, 05:33 PM	#30
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	I will take whatever negro league player info I can get, because one way or another a portion will be involved in this league. Thanks! GH

08-20-2002, 09:57 PM	#33
JimServo Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 418	I should have my list together my the weekend. __________________ "When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

08-20-2002, 11:17 PM	#35
y2kornhusker Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 135	Definitely Oh. __________________ Omaha Commanders - BBSC Classic Draft League Seattle Mariners - BBSC Current Draft League Philadelphia A's - BBSC Historical Replay League

08-21-2002, 09:34 AM	#36
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	yeah, Oh would be a part of that. It really depends how many guys fall into the other category. But I'll look into it. At this point, I've got three teams of hitters done (in spreadsheets, not in the game). The biggest help I may ultimately need is data entry, though I don't know how easy it would be to have a bunch of people entering these rosters into the game and merging them later. That's for down the line though. GH

08-21-2002, 01:08 PM	#37
kdawg Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Bedford, MA Posts: 63	GH, First, congratulations on the twins. I am recently married and looking to start a family next year. Secondly, this is an awesome idea. I was planning on starting a league filled with the greatest players of all-time. I play Classic Fantasy Baseball over on espn.com. If you need help entering data I would be willing to assist you. __________________ Your Friend in Plastics "Reality continues to ruin my life." - Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes "I will find humor in my everyday life by looking for people I can laugh at"

08-26-2002, 12:38 PM	#39
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	just an update on this. I have completed batting/fielding sheets for 7 teams. Haven't done pitching sheets yet, but the formulas will essentially be the same. Just need to figure out how to rate endurance since pitchers used to throw so much more and I don't just want to give every pre-1980 pitcher A endurance. So far, I like the way the position ratings are going. GH

08-26-2002, 01:31 PM	#40
JimServo Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 418	GH, my apologies for the delay on the negro league list. This have been kinda crazy over here. I'll have it over the next couple of days. __________________ "When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." -Dwight D. Eisenhower