Michael Schumacher retiring from racing after this season

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Someone who follows formula 1 more than me will have to confirm but wasn't one of the Benetton wins when he took Hill out ?

Yes, altho in some respects Hill lost it himself by not being patient. Schumi would have likely retired with a broken suspension, or at the very least slowed down considerably, so there wasn't much of a reason to make a desperation move in the middle of a chicane.

In any case, the incidents in 94 and 97 were both mild compared to the Prost/Senna clashes at Suzuka in 89 and 90, and I doubt anyone would argue that they weren't deserving champions. Senna is still considered the best-ever by most Schumi-haters and yet he won a title by intentionally ramming someone into the fence in Turn 1...I can't even imagine the response if Schumacher tried that move.

[Jason Moyer]

Here are some videos for people who don't follow F1 or are recent converts:

Suzuka 89 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7X3qH7RVzg
Suzuka 90 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Da2QZUeZo
Adelaide 94 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQOT7Y9YCio
Jerez 97 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDIL3jHL6iE

Something I never noticed about the 97 incident, but it looks like Jacques might not have made the corner if Schumi hadn't hit him...just before the collision JV is completely out of position to take the inside throught the corner.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

F1 drivers can adjust brake bias, differential settings, rev limiter, and traction control from the cockpit. AFAIK there isn't a way to electronically alter suspension settings in the post-active suspension era.

I know it wouldn't be possible with an active suspension, but I swore thats what this show on Speed Channel said. Here is a pic I found of the wheel I'm talking about. The show I saw it on presented it as he was the only driver who had the extent of controls that he did.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by magnet

The show I saw it on presented it as he was the only driver who had the extent of controls that he did.

That's pretty standard fare for a modern F1 car:

[magnet]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

That's pretty standard fare for a modern F1 car:

thanks for clarifying. I know a lot of those shows blow smoke, and it's nice to have someone sort it out. Did schumacher start the trend, at least?

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by magnet

thanks for clarifying. I know a lot of those shows blow smoke, and it's nice to have someone sort it out. Did schumacher start the trend, at least?

TBH, I couldn't tell you offhand, altho I think the wheel started becoming a knob-mounting device very early in his career. Personally, I think whoever started it was likely a designer or a race engineer rather than a driver.

[magnet]

Hmm. Stupid show. Basically said that Schumacher was the only driver talented enough to use such tactics.

[Meth_Lab_for_Rudy]

Another example of underhanded Schumacher tactics: Monaco - 2006. He stopped in the next to last corner on the final lap of qualifying to bring out a yellow flag and prevent drivers behind him that were going to out qualify him from being able to do so. Even with his sometimes questionable tactics, I will still be disappointed to not have him in F1 next season considering he is arguably still the best driver in the sport.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Meth_Lab_for_Rudy

Another example of underhanded Schumacher tactics: Monaco - 2006. He stopped in the next to last corner on the final lap of qualifying to bring out a yellow flag and prevent drivers behind him that were going to out qualify him from being able to do so.

Allegedly. I think it could be argued whether it was intentional or not. If you watch replays (particularly the helicopter one) he was off line going into Rascasse which either means he a.) was trying to correct his mistake and lost the car or b.) intentionally nearly hit the inside wall, intentionally locked his brakes while countersteering, and then parked his car in a dangerous place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMmBR0iPJQ

This clip has an aerial shot where you can see he completely missed the entrance to the second part of Rascasse after sliding in the first part and putting himself in a bad position for the second apex:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT_8i6pb5e8

Here's a comparison clip which better demonstrates that Schumi had already lost the car going through the first half of the corner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuppKx4K26U

Amusingly, the biggest argument that he did it on purpose is that he's "too good" to make a mistake like that. From people who largely consider him a talentless cheat most of the time.

[magnet]

I had no idea JM was such an F1 fan.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by magnet

I had no idea JM was such an F1 fan.

I just enjoy racing and simracing in general. If anyone ever puts out a decent F1 sim you probably won't see me on this forum for 6-9 months.

[Jason Moyer]

And Schumi's career comes to an end. 3 mechanical failures in 2 races that should have been easy wins, but he should be satisfied with the race today. His drive in Brazil has to rate with the top 5 or 10 of his career.

[LFC1892]

I havent seen it yet, but heard something about a flat sending him back to 17th, and he drove back up to 4th? Was it good to watch?

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by GUTIERREZ

I havent seen it yet, but heard something about a flat sending him back to 17th, and he drove back up to 4th? Was it good to watch?

It was seriously one of the best drives I've seen him have. He started 10th and was absolutely slicing through the field early, working his way up to 6th through 7 laps and all over the back of Fisichella's Renault. He diced briefly with Fisico, passing him on the outside through turn 1 then suddenly the car snapped sideways and Fisi repassed him. Shortly thereafter he had to pit for a tire puncture and dropped back to 17th place, 75 seconds behind Massa. From that point on he was lapping almost 2 seconds faster than everyone but Massa, who was about half a second to a second slower. It was insane. He passed a few backmarkers easily, and after everyone else made their first pitstops (MS ended up taking gas during his puncture stop, and only made one other stop in the race - which makes his pace even more impressive, since he had a full tank and ran his second set of tire for so long) he was up to 8th and closing on Barrichello, before both he and Rubens made their second stops shortly after the midway mark. After final pitstops, Schumi flew past Rubens, who seemed to offer little resistance once he was caught (MS actually waved as he went past), for 7th. Somehow (a pitstop or retirement, I forget) he ended up in 6th and quickly closed the gap to Fisichella in 5th, and then spent several laps getting held up trying to get around him. After a long battle he passed Fisi and had around a 10 second gap to Kimi in 4th, which disappeared in a handful of laps. After a short, clean battle for 4th he took the position with 3 laps to go but didn't have enough time to catch Button and Alonso who were running 2nd and 3rd around 10 seconds ahead of him. In 3 laps he did manage to cut the gap in half and pull out a 5 second gap on Kimi, but the battle with Fisichella pretty much ruined any chance of catching those guys.

To give an idea of his pace today, here are the fastest laps for the race. And the truly impressive thing is, MS was running within a few tenths of his best lap anytime he wasn't in traffic, typically mid 12's, while everyone else was running high 13's most of the day:

1. Schumacher 1:12.162
2. Massa 1:12.877
3. Alonso 1:12.961
4. Button 1:13.053
5. Fisichella 1:13.121
6. Raikkonen 1:13.281
7. Yamamoto 1:13.379
8. Barrichello 1:13.391

[LFC1892]

Thanks for the recap JM, excellent way for me to ctach up with what happened.

[Meth_Lab_for_Rudy]

Did Fisichella's wing contact Schumacher's tire during their first battle? The TV announcer's said there was contact but I couldn't see it.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Meth_Lab_for_Rudy

Did Fisichella's wing contact Schumacher's tire during their first battle? The TV announcer's said there was contact but I couldn't see it.

Some announcers said they touched, but there was no contact. It's believed the puncture was caused by debris from Rosberg's accident.

[Long_Long_Name]

Schumacher is comparable to Armstrong or Bonds - a dominant competitor who might not have been the cleanest competitor, but still the best.

Although Ullrich was arguably a superior athlete to Armstrong.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Something I never noticed about the 97 incident, but it looks like Jacques might not have made the corner if Schumi hadn't hit him...just before the collision JV is completely out of position to take the inside throught the corner.

He could've made it, I think, but would've had to massively brake and come back in secnd position. There was no one else on their tail, so he would've had time to brake without being rammed into by a close follower.